The hate towards some of the devs

[Sinyc]

People are a bunch of hypocrites, incessantly shitting on ghostcrawler, ion or whatever. You don't see a single complaint about John Hight - no, they hate whoever face appears more.

Just like with politics. The President is just a meat shield for criticism, with the illusion they have all the power. (Narrator: They don't). Funny how you see that same broken system in various parts of American culture/economy.

[Lolites]

Their Devs are highly respected amongst all communities--do you know why?

better PR and less hatefull players...
im not saying they are not better devs than blizz (honestly i have no clue as i dont care about them at all) but think about wow players, when was the last time they did something that players didnt bash? literaly even when doing things people ASKED FOR, the reaction is negative...
they keep to the ground to things that work? they get bashed for not trying something new, they try something new? they get bashed for it yet again... theres no wining with wow playerbase, or to be precise with average wow forum trolls...

[jeezusisacasual]

How is it any different to when people berate an employee at McDonalds? Or a gas station attendant? Its standard practice in the US to be rude to whomever is at the front of the service line and its sort of expected that they take it. That being said some of the things they have done in the past ( Cataclysm dungeon revamp, Raiding as the major end game pillar, lack of content WoD / SL ) are well worth criticism even if it comes across as rude due to how little they can read the pulse of their customer base. They can say smaller budgets or lack of staff but what happens to me when i go to management regarding me failing clients in the financial industry? So its expected to feel pressure its how they deal with it that seems to me think they cant handle someone telling them they are wrong, they are not rockstars.

[Zenfoldor]

World of Warcraft has sucked for a long time. Someone is to blame. It's not the audience in my opinion, I suspect they don't think we know what we want and don't listen to us as much when making or planning their game. Everything that can, tends to get blamed on us, the audience. Who is to blame for the game being bad for so long then? No one is not a possible answer. If you name someone, are you not also propagating in this implied hate?

Is there a difference between valid criticism and hate? If valid criticism hurts your feelings, is that hate?

[Diaphin]

What an absurd thing. It's obvious you can't look at this without your bias/ hatred for the playerbase (just like current WoW Devs).

FFXIV is the most popular MMORPG on the market right now. Their Devs are highly respected amongst all communities--do you know why? They listen to their players and communicate. They also don't go on Twitter and bash their playerbase claiming they know best for their game. Square Enix has said over and over it is the players that make the game what it is. Blizzard Devs on the other hand have outright shunned feedback because they believe it's a personal attack on their profession. How dare a player tell them what they did wrong?

You have that same mentality.

Damn, you don't understand allegory, don't you? And actually, the reason the FF14 devs don't get harassed is due to the cult-like devotion and atmosphere of toxic positive that the community build around interactions, ignoring all critical feedback and rather pander towards the buttom of the barrell and relying on nerds forming a parasocial relationship with Yoshi-P which falls under the whole cult stuff. Go to the official role forums, especially the healer ones, and look at how happy the players are with the current decissions the devs make.

[Nerovar]

World of Warcraft has sucked for a long time. Someone is to blame. It's not the audience in my opinion, I suspect they don't think we know what we want and don't listen to us as much when making or planning their game. Everything that can, tends to get blamed on us, the audience. Who is to blame for the game being bad for so long then? No one is not a possible answer. If you name someone, are you not also propagating in this implied hate?

Is there a difference between valid criticism and hate? If valid criticism hurts your feelings, is that hate?

This reflexive need to blame the players has always been a very stupid deflection from the actual issues that plague the game. Even if you accept the framing and blame player behaviour for the game being in a shit state (which you often see on this forum), what prescription can you possibly derive from that in order to make things better? Exchange your player base? Leave everything as it is and trust the plan? Not likely.

Ultimately, no matter how you frame it the game is always the dev's responsibility. If the game isn't doing great and the players are increasingly behaving in toxic ways, chances are that the developer isn't doing a great job either.

[kenn9530]

snip

WoW is an old game it will not change, it would need to be done from the ground up with a new engine and everything, so if you dont like WoW now you will never like it regardless of the expansion, there is only so much that can be done without a completely new game engine, players ideas are not always good for the game otherwise they would implement them.

In every single game in existance much of the playerbase leaves after a short while, that is just reality in the games industry, there is no game that gives you enough content on a regular basis to keep up with consumption.

Players will always find something to complain about you can never keep those players happy regardless of how good a game is or what systems you implement, the company is doing what is right for them.

- - - Updated - - -

I think a fairly decent example of this would be lfg in wrath Classic. Lfg has been blamed as the beginning of destroying the social aspect of WoW and very often people have called for its removal. And one of the things people said about Vanilla Classic was it was good there was no lfg and the game would have a sense of community again! Then during the Dragonflight announcement when they said no lfg in wrath classic I thought to myself “oh that should make players happy”. I was shocked to see the huge backlash towards the announcement afterwards.

The only real problem with WoW is its old and outdated, the gameplay doesnt really change much so it gets boring fast, heres hoping ashes of creation is good when its finished as it might be a good MMO to pick up.

[kenn9530]

If they did what is right for the company they would implement a game that appeals to millions of customers way longer than just a few months. Unfortunately they are too incompetent to actually even understand what will make millions of players continue to play, simply based on their own bias and tunnel vision all they design should focus on premade groups, should condemn matchmaking (i mean, really, 70% of the players want a dungeon finder in wotlk classic, yet Blizzard ignores that completely) and only give gearing progression to engaged minorities, as like premade group players, which is nothing else than blatant elitism considering the fact they more and more remove useful gearing progression from casual gamers, simply to have a larger whale hunt.

And yes, a "premium" mmorpg like WoW, which asks for subs, has microstransactions, shady play to win and a cosmetic item shop should allow enough effort to make the game fun for many.

And no, adding gameplay for millions would be an investment rather than costs you would not get a return of investment for.

Also, making millions of players happy and loyal surely will not happen with focusing on premade raids and hard mythic+ dungeons.

Also it would not need a "major game overhaul" but simply way more difficulty levels with a proper gearing progression for many both in solo instanced and matchmade group content and world content, where gear would matter, and where there is a simple reward system rather than an overly bloated amount of borrowed power systems which fill your inventory with trash currency items. Really, who thought that three different bee food quality levels would add any kind of fun to farming the bee mount?

No matter how much content you put in a game the players will consume it all within a few months, the devs will never be able to keep up with consumption demands, it has nothing to do with being incompetant since you like to use it wrongly. WoW is an old game and they are not going to put too much money into it when they make more money in other areas of the company for less costs.

More difficulty levels doesnt solve anything, we know much of the playerbase doesnt even have the skill to clear double figure keys let alone anything more difficult, you have just proven here you dont have a clue what the game actually needs, difficult content is for a small portion of the playerbase, WoWs content is all about group based content so thats where its focused.

[Nathreim]

A lot of Dev's are not only terrible at their jobs but arrogant as fuck so they deserve what they get. Not to mention all the harassment and racism within the company was coming not just from management but other devs and both male and female.

[kenn9530]

snip

They have plenty of gear progression systems already inplace, getting gear is not a problem, if you are a casual player that doesnt do difficult content then you dont need powerful gear in the first place and you get normal raid loot or better anyway as a casual player so that is more than sufficient. Currently there are many ways to choose to gear up so gear progression is not a problem for WoW.

You have some really unrealistic expectations from the devs, you want new content every 3 months including a new raid tier and a new dungeon, the current tier is not even completed by most players within 3 months so why do you need a new raid after 3 months. A raid and new dungeon is a ton of work that cant be done in a few months and is not worth the money it would cost to do it.

Even BiS gear to a casual player means nothing because they are not skilled to do the harder content anyway, most players stuggle to get through low keys let alone anything harder, you lack a complete understanding of what actually works in an MMORPG, gear does not replace skill and the best gear should only be available to the players doing the harder content.

[kenn9530]

snip

WoW already works in a way where you are rewarded with gear that should allow you to step up to the next challenge, but unless you do mythic plus or raiding you are limited in the gears power and thats the way it should be.

You have completely unrealistic expectations on the devs delivering content, a new dungeon alone would be hard enough but you want new world content and new raid content, more of the same content doesnt solve anything it is still consumed just as fast and then it becomes obsolete, way too much cost investment for no extra return, more of the same content doesnt keep players.

The gear progression in WoW works good and has many different options to gear a player, gear is always useful until you are fully gear and then you can sell or disenchant it for materials so its still has uses even if you require no more gear. You dont have a point when it comes to gear, the gear progression system in WoW has never been an issue.

[kenn9530]

snip

WoW is an MMO you know something you should play with other ppl to earn rewards, solo gameplay should only reward you with basic access to the harder content and nothing more. WoW is not a game that is good for a solo player there are other MMOs that are much better at that gameplay so dont expect it from WoW.

It doesnt make that much money from WoW anymore, WoW generates less than 25% of the companies revenue, they would have to increase the dev team by a massive margin to make even a small difference to the game, WoW generates more than enough money so they are better using resources in other areas of the company to make more money than WoW ever can.

World quests give you more than enough powerful gear to get into the harder content so there is more than enough gear progression, if you choose not to do content beyond solo dont complain you are not progressing. World quests get you to a point so you can progress to higher difficulties, doing normal mythic then doing keys so you are talking complete BS saying there missing progression.

Blizz and the devs know what they are doing, just because you dont agree doesnt mean they are not competant, unless you think bringing in a few hundred million a year is not competant enough for you.

[kenn9530]

snip

Its pretty obvious you dont understand the game at all, its an MMO and it has many options to progress your characters gear, solo content will never get you the best gear and thats the way it should always work.

You dont understand the games gear progression.

solo - gets you to normal raid progression/entry mythic keys or entry PvP. From that point on you have to do the group content as thats what the game is for to group up with other players to increase your gear, solo content should never grant you gear much past the current tiers entry level content.

WoW main content that its actually good at is group based content, if you ignore that content you shouldnt play the game because its not designed as a solo game.

You have proven here you do not understand the game at all. WoW is not a good game for a solo player it never has been a game focused on the solo player so dont expect it change.

More difficulty levels does not solve anything, players get bored of the content eventually and having tiered progression does not solve that and does nothing for the game, difficult group based content rewards the best gear, difficult solo content should never reward the best gear.

[RobertMugabe]

I was skipping the some of my favourite streamers during the night and I just couldn't believe some of the comments towards the devs, they are trying there best to get the game right, then theres the personal attacks towards some of the devs it's not on they don't deserve these kind of comments, they need to grow up, one day the Internet will change for the better and find these keyboard warriors and take action and to be honest I hope i'm around to see it happen

It shows that some people are just too addicted to this game and others and have also no real social life. People just take things about games too seriously and a large part of that is simply, because games play a way too big part of their life.

So everything they see as a negative, they take it personally and attack the people responsible for that. It's especially ridiculous to see for example just how often devs and authors get threatened their life, because of the recent developments of the game's lore or because of some gameplay (systems etc.).

It's also really worrying how all of these threats are so common, that it has become almost normal.

[Yriel]

It shows that some people are just too addicted to this game and others and have also no real social life. People just take things about games too seriously and a large part of that is simply, because games play a way too big part of their life.

So everything they see as a negative, they take it personally and attack the people responsible for that. It's especially ridiculous to see for example just how often devs and authors get threatened their life, because of the recent developments of the game's lore or because of some gameplay (systems etc.).

It's also really worrying how all of these threats are so common, that it has become almost normal.

I agree in priciple but i find it ridiculous how often people talk of "death threats on the internet" when some kid wrote something along the line of "Please jump in front of a bus" "I wish you would die" or something. Thats how kids talk on the internet, always have, always will. That is no "death threat", i don't think i have ever seen a credible death threat on the internet. Yes that is bad taste, kids trying to be edgy mostly are.
But if you take that serious then the problem is more on the "you" side imo.

[Revamp Man]

It shows that some people are just too addicted to this game and others and have also no real social life. People just take things about games too seriously and a large part of that is simply, because games play a way too big part of their life.

So everything they see as a negative, they take it personally and attack the people responsible for that. It's especially ridiculous to see for example just how often devs and authors get threatened their life, because of the recent developments of the game's lore or because of some gameplay (systems etc.).

It's also really worrying how all of these threats are so common, that it has become almost normal.

eh the reason a lot of people stop taking it so seriously when they hear "i got death threats" is because we rarely see any let alont the "dozens" they claim

its also hard to feel sympathy for devs that claim players are the reason their coworkers are predators. Little Timmy from Ohio said that he will come to california and turn me into a meat toboggan im so scared.

[Celement]

If they want to become public figures suffer the results of that?

I still recall the web version of blizzcon where mods desperately tried to shut down chat as this weird spergy voice actor wrangler stopped talking about wow and went on a rant about how hard being black is.

[OrangeJuice]

the devs are pathetic pieces of shit that just want sympathy for the hate they receive for being shit at the job they shouldn't even have to begin with. Nobody has ever thought my performance is so shit that they would prefer me dead, but I think if I ever was in that position I'd think, fuck man I need to find a new job because I suck at this.

[RobertMugabe]

I agree in priciple but i find it ridiculous how often people talk of "death threats on the internet" when some kid wrote something along the line of "Please jump in front of a bus" "I wish you would die" or something. Thats how kids talk on the internet, always have, always will. That is no "death threat", i don't think i have ever seen a credible death threat on the internet. Yes that is bad taste, kids trying to be edgy mostly are.
But if you take that serious then the problem is more on the "you" side imo.

You're actually missing the point, dude.

This isn't about someone writing "kys" to a dev on the internet, but you have a lot of people that actually make way more serious threats, such as trying to research you, find your location, dox you and then make either real death threats to you or talk shit about your family, try to "expose" you, stalk you, prank you etc etc. THOSE are the real threats and fears some of these people are exposed too, most people can easily just block and ignore salty kids, but people like that, they don't give up easily. Everything changes when you have a "real" online presence attached to your real name and aren't just a random gamer on the internet.

I am seriously a nobody compared to all these wow devs and I am not trying to pretend, but I've been a typical dev and gm once on a popular wow private server and occasionally people have been trying to do this to me for the most pathetic reasons or no reasons at all. Luckily in my case, I remained completely anonymous, so nothing ever went anywhere. If my name was public, then this would've been scary af.

[Swnem]

No. The devs are making the game they want to do and have done that for several years now completely disregarding feedback and only looking for compromise rather than change.
Customers are in their right to criticise the producers if they make a bad product. These devs have made a bad game for 7 years. They and Blizzard deserve harsh criticism, whether they listen or not, or i should say, especially cause they don't listen.

And let me add. Dragonflight won't be much better. We are at such a point where not being a dumpster fire is a positive outcome.
The fact they are adding a new class is good. That is what they should be doing. Adding content rather than trying to re-invent progression systems.

They want to go back to old talent trees? Fine. Let's go back to how gearing worked in wrath as well. Thanks.
Also, would be great if we got a new story team and they tried to push the envelope on that front. If people are invested in the story, they come back.
It's pathetic how most people that play this game don't know anything about the story cause it's so pathetic.