Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gorsameth]

Boris and the UK have actually earned a lot of good will and prestige over their handling of the Ukraine crisis...the EU...well let's just say it's reputation has been tarnished.

Sure, but that doesn't change that the defence pact was just continuing the situation from before Brexit.

[CostinR]

Sure, but that doesn't change that the defence pact was just continuing the situation from before Brexit.

I made an edit but I'll post my point here too. Article 42 is fairly weak compared to Article 5 of NATO and what the UK pledged to do for Sweden.

Basically the UK has given Sweden the same kind of assurance NATO members give to each other until Sweden becomes a full NATO member.

So no, not a continuation.

[Lahis]

Seeing how well Germany and France are dealing with this right now, I think it is safe to say EU Article 42 means fuckall.

I'll be shocked if they grow some balls even under NATO Article 5 conditions.

[Kallisto]

Boris and the UK have actually earned a lot of good will and prestige over their handling of the Ukraine crisis...the EU...well let's just say it's reputation has been tarnished.

The EU defense clause is significantly weaker then Article 5 and weaker then the pledge the UK has made to Sweden.

Anyone who knows Boris knows it's nothing more than to try to wash away the stink he got from having his pay masters coming from Moscow. He's no real friend of Ukraine or Sweden/Finland.

[Pann]

Anyone who knows Boris knows it's nothing more than to try to wash away the stink he got from having his pay masters coming from Moscow. He's no real friend of Ukraine or Sweden/Finland.

Zelensky seems to think differently, but what does he know, huh?!?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61719962

Of all the things you can criticise Johnson and his government for you choose one of the few things he has got right?!?

[Corvus]

Some epic level trolling by the Ukrainians - in response to the threat to unrecognise Lithuanian independence, the Kyivian city council has cancelled the 1147 decree by the Kyivian Rus Grand Prince establishing Moscow. Moscow is no more.

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad2...21088137232388

[Edge-]

Some epic level trolling by the Ukrainians - in response to the threat to unrecognise Lithuanian independence, the Kyivian city council has cancelled the 1147 decree by the Kyivian Rus Grand Prince establishing Moscow. Moscow is no more.

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad2...21088137232388

Wow, so is the territory formally known as Moscow now just free real estate?

[postman1782]

We’re almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms, says Ukraine


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...droidApp_Other

How does this war end?

Hopefully with Russia even smaller than it is now. Just like when the cold war ended,

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Usually I don't start conversations with people that don't know how to have one. These forums have gone to poop since Skroe and Kell left, very boring and uneducated discussions happening nowadays.

But just to take the bait, I'll reply to you:



1. If Russia wasn't a major military power, US / UK will have started the bombing already as they have done (and still do) at so many other countries. All that I've read in this war, is "US didn't proceed with a test of Minuteman 3 to not provoke Russia", "US won't deliver highly lethal equipment (Like the HIMARS extra-long-range missiles) to not provoke Russia", "Unguided 255mm munitions for the artillery to not provoke Russia" etc.
2. Russia currently is fighting against all chances and not only has managed to grab 20% of a foreign country, but also: Is not respecting the 3x attacking/defending rule-ratio, is against foreign mercenaries, NATO's weapons, real time intelligence etc. I can only think of a handful of nations that are capable of doing this (and yes, UK isn't one of them). Russia is doing extremely small gains, but gains nevertheless, and they haven't even mobilized yet...
3. Russia has been warning us of such war for quite some time now and even tried to make the US and NATO to sign legal assurances to avoid this war. Even Merkel said publicly that she blocked Ukraine's ascension to NATO to avoid this freaking pointless war.
4. Yes, their main concern is NATO, yes they are paranoid, NO this DOESN'T justify their war. However, I'll ask you this: What would happen if Ireland or Scotland tried to join CSTO and put some Russian Iskanders in reach of British cities? What would Britain do to them? What would the US do to Canada or Mexico if they tried that? No need to answer this, because we all know how it will end for those nations (hint: bombed in the 19th century). Is it fair that one country can dictate the desire of another? Hell no. Thinking that nothing will happen is pure romantism.
5. I can go on and on, but I am bored.

My question is legit: How does this shity situation stops?, and I asked it out of pure interest to see everyone’s opinion.

We see that sanctions did minimal to deter them:

- Russian economy is actually not doing as bad as EU / US / NATO wished to. This is due to the increased price of hydrocarbons. Also, China and India are buying oil in record amounts. In essence, Russia was condemned and has sanctions from a 20% of the total global population... the rest 80% is still doing business with them.
- Russia, as we speak, is building a new pipeline to China. That means that if EU for any stupid reason decides to sanction their gas, they will just sell more to China.

Sanctions to be effective, we need China, India and other major countries to join them.


Military aid works, but it wont stop the war in the form and magnitude that is given to Ukraine today. We see Russians gaining ground, slowly, but steadily at least in the Dombas region. Ukraine would need:
1. Aircraft
2. A/A weapons
3. Heavy artillery with advanced munitions
4. Helicopters
5. Tanks

to name a few, in VAST AMOUNTS in order to stop them and even more if they want to retake their land back. Another option, is a direct military involvement of NATO countries, meaning boots on the ground of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of NATO troops (assuming that Russia will go into full mobilization), and this will lead most probably to WW3.


Right now, we as European citizens, are feeling a big hit in our financial situation because of inflation and the war. I feel that this war can only go well for Ukraine, if they gain whatever they are trying before December. If the situation continues more than that (which Russia is more than capable of prolonging this for years) we will be looking at ridiculous energy prices, leading to more inflation, leading to more social unrest, leading to the fall of governments. I am pretty sure Putin knows and bets on this.

And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?

Those people didn't leave, they were banned, wrongfully.

[Corvus]

Wow, so is the territory formally known as Moscow now just free real estate?

There are some inbred squatters that need to be evicted first.

[Marcellus1986]

Hopefully with Russia even smaller than it is now. Just like when the cold war ended,

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Those people didn't leave, they were banned, wrongfully.

The funny thing is it works out in Ulmita’s favor since Kell and skroe were consistently debunking anything Ulmita posted. He’s still going with the ‘Russia stronk’ narrative he’s had for going on almost 10 years. He’s also larping as a Canadian/Italian/Russian/EU citizen again. Just report his posts because theyre full of fanciful rubbish.

[Adam Jensen]

"Defence agreement with EU" is not worth the paper it was signed on, in great part thanks to our own traitor politicians that were writing the exact wording for it.

Though I'm not worried. russia is free to try to invade Finland. We'll see how it goes for them.

Probably even worse than it did for them in the 1930s.

[Masark]

Hopefully with Russia even smaller than it is now. Just like when the cold war ended

Russia should be 7,283,361 square kilometres smaller.

[Adam Jensen]

Wow, so is the territory formally known as Moscow now just free real estate?

Declare it Zelenskyygrad.

[zealo]

Probably even worse than it did for them in the 1930s.

Russia's military is not in any state of readiness sufficient to mess with a country ready to mobilise some 300k within a matter of days, when they're already bogged down in Ukraine.

Words is all they've got at present for that.

[Iphie]

Russia's military is not in any state of readiness sufficient to mess with a country ready to mobilise some 300k within a matter of days, when they're already bogged down in Ukraine.

Words is all they've got at present for that.

Especially if said country also already has quite a few of the weapons Ukraine is asking for. (M270's, Leopard 2's, AA, etc.) This doesn't mean I feel like trying our luck.

[Poopymonster]

Declare it Zelenskyygrad.

All hail Molvanîa! Zlad makes a comeback!

[DarkAmbient]

Biden said Zelenskyy 'didn't want to hear it' when US intelligence warned Ukraine that Russia would invade

President Joe Biden said Friday that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy didn't want to hear US intelligence that indicated Russia was about to invade Ukraine.

Biden made the comments while speaking to donors in Los Angeles, California, about his continued to support for Ukraine, according to The Associated Press.

"Nothing like this has happened since World War II. I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating," Biden said, according to the outlet. He added the US had data that showed Russian President Vladimir Putin was going to invade.

"There was no doubt," Biden continued. "And Zelenskyy didn't want to hear it."

Prior to launching a full-scale invasion on February 24, Russia spent weeks building up its troops on the Ukrainian border, prompting speculation over whether or not they were preparing to invade, an allegation the Kremlin denied.

In late January, after US officials said it was likely Putin would invade soon, an unnamed Ukrainian official told CNN that Zelenskyy had told Biden to "calm down the messaging" about the invasion because it was creating a panic.

On Monday, US Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said that Biden even declassified intelligence about Russia's invasion in an attempt to convince skeptical allies it was actually going to happen.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Zelensky seems to think differently, but what does he know, huh?!?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61719962

Of all the things you can criticise Johnson and his government for you choose one of the few things he has got right?!?

"Got right"?

I'm not sure you can call "making the only choice possible, to support a European nation being invaded by Russia" the right call. What else was he going to do? What else would literally ANY PM of the UK make in that position?

You want to focus on what he's been doing in this time, compare and contrast the way that various EU nations have treated Ukrainian refugees with how the UK has. Then you'll see what happens when a genuine choice comes up, and what side Boris comes down on.

Lauding him for supporting the Ukraine war effort is pathetic.

[Corvus]

Further proof that dogs are smarter than Ruscists - Russian military dog defects to Ukraine.

[CostinR]

"Got right"?

I'm not sure you can call "making the only choice possible, to support a European nation being invaded by Russia" the right call. What else was he going to do? What else would literally ANY PM of the UK make in that position?

You want to focus on what he's been doing in this time, compare and contrast the way that various EU nations have treated Ukrainian refugees with how the UK has. Then you'll see what happens when a genuine choice comes up, and what side Boris comes down on.

Lauding him for supporting the Ukraine war effort is pathetic.

Because the war in Ukraine comes down to which side takes in the most refugees, should really praise Germany for that really ( since of Western nations they've taken the most ). Nevermind that Ukraine is trying to survive as a country against Russia which they are largely doing thanks to US and British help with a few other nations having an impact as well.

Certainly not the likes of Germany however.