Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Osmeric]

The idea that a game can be boiled down to a simple numeric score is silly.

The idea that an aggregate of scores makes the situation better is ridiculous.

Trusting the aggregate when you know people can easily be motivated to boost or wreck the score using relatively small numbers is ridiculous.

Scores can be useful even if one cannot "boil down" a game to a number. I am sure if you went to, say, Rotten Tomatoes you'd agree most of the movies with low scores are worse than most of the movies with high scores.

The ragging on ratings sites is a defense mechanism, setting impossibly high standards for them to meet because you don't like the results.

[Elim Garak]

Scores can be useful even if one cannot "boil down" a game to a number. I am sure if you went to, say, Rotten Tomatoes you'd agree most of the movies with low scores are worse than most of the movies with high scores.

I wouldn't and neither should you. You haven't watched all those movies to conclude that low rating ones are worse than high ratings ones. Especially not to you. Worst rated movies might be actually very interesting to YOU.

Shed the sheep skin.

[Dhrizzle]

Scores can be useful even if one cannot "boil down" a game to a number. I am sure if you went to, say, Rotten Tomatoes you'd agree most of the movies with low scores are worse than most of the movies with high scores.

The ragging on ratings sites is a defense mechanism, setting impossibly high standards for them to meet because you don't like the results.

Ooh sorry, I didn't realise you just wanted to argue against a strawman with motivations you invented yourself. I'll leave you to it.

[Elim Garak]

The irony is “think for yourself” crowd seem to always be trying to say, “think like I do not like that!” Think like myself would be more adequate.

The irony is that the people who tell you to think for yourself - don't want to limit your freedom to gamble if you want to. Because you are smart enough to think for yourself.

Your crowd on the other hand - are trying to limit other people's freedom.

So this is not about whether you think MTX in F2P is bad. This is about liberty to gamble all your possessions - if you are stupid enough to do it.

[KrayZ33]

The irony is that the people who tell you to think for yourself - don't want to limit your freedom to gamble if you want to. Because you are smart enough to think for yourself.
Your crowd on the other hand - are trying to limit other people's freedom.
So this is not about whether you think MTX in F2P is bad. This is about liberty to gamble all your possessions - if you are stupid enough to do it.

I too think that kids should be able to drink alcohol and do drugs.
I too think that bartenders should give people, who are already smashed and drunk, give even more alcohol.
It's how we grow as a society!

/s btw.

Rules aren't always limiting your freedom, they allow you to grow them more often than not.
Shady, manipulating schemes shouldn't be a thing that are hand-waved away like it's nothing. But you do you, doesn't prevent us/me from pointing it out over and over and over and over again. We will argue in circles for the next few years. Nice to meet you, I'll be your company.

People seem to fail to understand that not everyone is the same, and malicous intent is ugly and despicable, and that our values as a society differ from this. And the shop is designed with "malicous" intent. They try to confuse the consumer by using every trick in the book. It works on some, it doesn't on others. Some even think it doesn't work on them, but it actually does as (that's the biggest hit, and you are probably part of that group). Why do you expect people to only make educated decisions when they are actively and constantly fooled by everything this game throws at you, unfairly and in a hideous and hidden way as well. Blizzard is certainly not the only company doing this, but that is beside the point.

The whole thing is certainly not about "freedom" though.

[Elim Garak]

I too think that kids should be able to drink alcohol and do drugs.
I too think that bartenders should give people, who are already smashed and drunk, give even more alcohol.
It's how we grow as a society!

/s btw.

What's with this fixation on kids though?

Rules aren't always limiting your freedom, they allow you to grow them more often than not.

Only my rules. Not someone else's

[crusadernero]

The irony is that the people who tell you to think for yourself - don't want to limit your freedom to gamble if you want to. Because you are smart enough to think for yourself.

Your crowd on the other hand - are trying to limit other people's freedom.

So this is not about whether you think MTX in F2P is bad. This is about liberty to gamble all your possessions - if you are stupid enough to do it.

There are heavy regulations when it comes to gambling in many countries. Much more than there is in gaming. You gotta be rather ignorant to not realise its coming in gaming to, one way or another. Maybe outright ban the practice(like in certain countries) or with heavy moderations.

There are plenty of examples in ways govs take measures to help and keep people safe from all sorts of harm. That doesnt mean they "dont have freedom".

If peak freedom to you is gaming companies doing predadory practices towards costumers, then thats a freedom I would bet alot of people dont want to be a part of. Or might not even consider it freedom at all.

Its egosentric. And its sad.

[KrayZ33]

What's with this fixation on kids though?

I literally included adults as well?
Once again, you are back to trolling I see.
Aren't you a little funny rascal? I thought you would identify with them more, so what's the problem.

[Elim Garak]

There are heavy regulations when it comes to gambling in many countries.
And its sad.

I agree, it's sad. That people are willingly relinquish their freedoms, even when there's no need to, like during an emergency.

I literally included adults as well?
Once again, you are back to trolling I see.
Aren't you a little funny rascal? I thought you would identify with them more, so what's the problem.

I cannot take seriously anyone who tries to build an argument around "think of the children".
Only bad people think about someone else's children.

I'm also quite sure there's an age restriction in Casinos.

[KrayZ33]

I agree, it's sad. That people are willingly relinquish their freedoms, even when there's no need to, like during an emergency.


I cannot take seriously anyone who tries to build an argument around "think of the children".
Only bad people think about someone else's children.

I'm also quite sure there's an age restriction in Casinos.

Well, I included everyone, both young and old... but you seem to focus on the children for whatever reason in a flimsy attempt to handwave the arguments away, like always... like a troll... that you are.

Yeah... there's an age restriction in Casinos... aren't you mad about that? Your freedom and all .
Oh and you know what's different as well? The age restriction is actually legally enforced. Quite a big difference that one, isn't it?

Maybe we should be able to fine Blizzard for allowing kids to play their gambling games then?
But now you are leading the discussion towards kids again, by your own design. Not mine. Isn't it funny how it works?
Btw, gambling addicts are not allowed to play in "good" casinos either. And the casino can be fined if they do allow them. So we really don't have to talk about kids here.

[Elim Garak]

Well, I included everyone, both young and old... but you seem to focus on the children for whatever reason in a flimsy attempt to handwave the arguments away, like always... like a troll... that you are.

It doesn't matter what you include if you start with the children

Yeah... there's an age restriction in Casinos... aren't you mad about that? Your freedom and all .

Not in the slightest. A child is not a full citizen.

Oh and you know what's different as well? The age restriction is actually legally enforced. Quite a big difference that one, isn't it?

How else there can be a limit if it's not enforced?

Maybe we should be able to fine Blizzard for allowing kids to play their gambling games then?

1. Blizzard has no gambling games
2. All games are appropriately age restricted already
3. I wouldn't mind Blizzard making a Casino game and rate as Mature.

But now you are leading the discussion towards kids again, by your own design. Not mine. Isn't it funny how it works?

And yet you perpetrate defending yourself. Like a guilty party.

Btw, gambling addicts are not allowed to play in "good" casinos either. And the casino can be fined if they do allow them. So we really don't have to talk about kids here.

So what's all this with banning gambling again? Seems like all the necessary restrictions are in place.

[Lolites]

I would rather pay 19.99 for a complete experience, paying nothing for a rancid husk of a game

well thers the problem - you SUBJECTIVELY consider it "rancid husk of a game" for your own personal reasons, we consider it a game, not amazing but good, which we got for free, so paying for it would be better for you perhaps, but worse for us...
for someone so concerned with other people well being you seem to be unable to think about others when it doesnt suit you...

“Just have more self control 5head” - some people just don’t, instead of chastising them instead look at how to help people

thats simple - you cant
if someone is addictive personality only they can help themself, even if they get profesional help its just a crutch, they have to do the actual "work"... and any kind of regulations will do jack shit they will just find a way to go around - think back how effective prohibition was, or any other ban for that matter...

[Elim Garak]

Btw, it's quite hilarious that the very same people who complain about being solicited to pay in f2p games are also the people who want to be charged $60 upfront for a hype in a sack.

[KrayZ33]

It doesn't matter what you include if you start with the children

? Interesting point of view, but totally delusional though. You don't get to ignore everything just because you have a hateboner for people that care for the next generation.

Not in the slightest. A child is not a full citizen.

Are we living in ancient sparta? What are you trying to say. This is about people that require additional securities so that they can survive and thrive in our society. You can insert "disabled people" if that's such a hang up for your mental gymnastics. Not about giving or taking away "freedom".
This is why casinos have to do certain things to operate in countries. That's why they can't just do what they want.
That's how it is for everyone in our society. You do this by making rules. It's been long overdue for the mobile game market. And some companies have some kind of "honor" in them and they feel like they don't have to stoop so low as Blizzard just did. A company that designed, or made use of, a system that will try to make you spend money for the next short dopamine rush. A system that is designed to prey on the weaker part of their consumer base

How else there can be a limit if it's not enforced?

1. Blizzard has no gambling games
2. All games are appropriately age restricted already
3. I wouldn't mind Blizzard making a Casino game and rate as Mature.

So what's all this with banning gambling again? Seems like all the necessary restrictions are in place.

What restrictions are you talking about and who enforces them in this game? Are they being enforced? If not, what's your problem with people adressing this issue? Which is what everyone who is against this pathetic predatory scheme is actually doing?
Companies, just like Casinos, have responsibilities as well. It's the only reason why we, as a society, aren't already living in a distopian enviroment

And yet you perpetrate defending yourself. Like a guilty party.

lol, I just adressed your point, you silly man. Would you rather I don't answer it? But you quoted me, so you did expect me to answer it - what was it that I was supposed to do?
Spoken like a true troll, once again. One can only lose talking to you, no matter the subject.
"why do you answer my questions even though I'm asking you in person"

[Elim Garak]

Are we living in ancient sparta?

Not big on law? You should study it, specifically for the distinction between a minor and an adult.

What restrictions are you talking about and who enforces them? Are they being enforced? If not, what's your problem with people adressing this issue? Which is what everyone who is against this pathetic predatory scheme is actually doing?

People are not addressing any issues, they just complain about something they don't even understand.
The restrictions are enforced in the only way they can be humanely enforced.
And if you think they are not - more restrictions cannot be a solution to the problem of lack of enforcement.
Seems quite obvious to me.

lol, I just adressed your point, you silly man. Would you rather I don't answer it? But you quoted me, so you did expect me to answer it - what was it that I were supposed to do?
Spoken like a true troll, once again. One can only lose talking to you, no matter the subject.

If one cannot win - it's copier to blame the troll.

[KrayZ33]

Not big on law? You should study it, specifically for the distinction between a minor and an adult.

I'm quite fine, ty. It's just that your comment made absolutely no sense in context.

People are not addressing any issues, they just complain about something they don't even understand.
The restrictions are enforced in the only way they can be humanely enforced.
And if you think they are not - more restrictions cannot be a solution to the problem of lack of enforcement.
Seems quite obvious to me.

They are adressing issues all right, you just ignore them, like always, because you don't actually have a foot to stand on.
The restrictions aren't enforced because they don't apply to this "new" enviroment.
In most (all) cases they aren't even clearly defined as what they are. Laws don't work like you think they do, they are slow and loopholes exist that have to be closed eventually. They also have to evolve with the times and new technology.
If Blizzard would have to aquire a gambling license for this game, like they should. It would already make a difference.
Alongside 1000 other restrictions as well. You could add all kind of shit that makes the company responsible as well. You can be sure that they will find a way to "enforce" the law if the alternative is paying millions of fines.

If one cannot win - it's copier to blame the troll.

You can't win against the troll... as I already pointed it out, you asked me to answer a question and when I answered, you said "lawl, why do you even answer XD you are guilty because you interacted with me".

[Elim Garak]

Okay, so I want games to have an up front cost that each person pays to play it, adequate compensation for the work in creation.

Ah, yes. And who gets to decide what's adequate compensation?

The market. And the marketing cost is also included - not just the development cost. You don't sell the game if no one even knows about it.

So if you spend $100M on a game. Sell it for say $100. and only 100 people buy it - that's hardly adequate compensation for the work in creation.

You would probably blame the developers for their poor business decisions.

Not your problem. Right?

That's why there are preorder bonuses, day 0 DLC, more DLC, expansions, game shops, MTX, and even merchandize. And that's just premium games with an upfront charge.

F2P is where the money's at.

[Aliven]

the dichotomy of this game simultaneously having very fun gameplay loops AND all these design decisions that keep getting in a way of those gameplay loops are just... fascinating.

Why create ugly and boring trap?

[Osmeric]

Ooh sorry, I didn't realise you just wanted to argue against a strawman with motivations you invented yourself. I'll leave you to it.

Your denial has become sufficiently pathetic that I think this is your best move. Take care.

[Cracked]

It's always fun to see poor people's disdain towards rich people's money spending habits.

It's always fun to see invested people's futile attempts to defend abhorrent practices.