Diablo 4 could end up having microtransactions

[Delekii]

PoE has huge shop with MTX and the prices are very high. Not to mention all those premium stash tabs that are so important (like currency tab or map tab) QoL that I don't see myself playing without them. I'm aware its f2p game but the price for all those tabs already surpased b2p ARPGs by alot.

But for some reason I don't see people flooding this forum with complains, why? Because it's not Blizzard?

I bet you people hate Path of Exile too.

It's not comparable.

Even if you see the stash tabs as completely mandatory (they aren't, but lets pretend they are), it's still a total of:
150 - Quad stash tab for selling random stuff
75 - Currancy
150 - Map
40 - Flask
40 - Gem
30 - Delirium
40 - Metamorph
40 - Blight
40 - Delve
75 - Fragment
40 - Essense
50 - Divination
=770 points.
In AUD that's $80 worth of points, Im assuming that it's cheaper in USD. That is the price of a AAA title, if you buy EVERY SINGLE stash tab, which you absolutely don't need to. The vast majority of casual players would easily be fine with Currency, Maps, and a Quad tab - maybe a fragments if desperate. The rest are barely better than a normal tab, especially since the addition of tab affinities. I've bought most of the tabs over the course of 10 years of play or whatever, but even now I don't use half of them - the uniques tab is ultimately worse than a regular tab except for unique collectors, and I barely have a use for Blight/Delve/Gem/Flask/Metamorph/Delirium, I just send them to a normal tab together.

So a quad, a map and a currency tab comes to 375 points, or $40. You definitely won't need any of them your first playthrough, and even if you don't buy any of them you can fully play the game, just trading will suck. Futhermore, there are frequent stash tab sales, mutliple times per league, where the tabs are between 25 and 50% off.

Pretending that PoE's version of P2W is remotely comparable to standard fare pay to win is either grossly misleading or born out of ignorance.

To note: I absolutely believe that the currency tab and maps tabs should be included as standard for all accounts, and that non-premium tabs just shouldnt exist (the tabs you get to start should function as premium tabs). However, there is still no comparison between PoE and any other F2P MTX-based game that I've played. It's the cheapest by far.

[Endus]

It's not comparable.

You're only looking at a subset of PoE's microtransactions.

You mathed out a total of 770 points of content, but just a cursory glance at the online shop and there's a ton more. Single armor set packs costing 840 points. Guild stuff. Metric buttloads of cosmetics. I don't care to add it all up, but I'm sure you could easily spend thousands if not tens of thousands on PoE and still have content to buy.

The guy who spent $10k on Diablo Immortal? That was on currency to open particular rifts trying to get an endgame item ASAP. And the dude makes like $80k/month streaming, so this was essentially just a business expense; that I've heard of it says it was probably worth the investment. It's probably worth more to him getting nothing than if he'd gotten the item he was ostensibly looking for, since this is getting him tons of press. These massive figures only "matter" if you consider hitting the absolute maximum gearing as the "goal" of playing the game, rather than the journey along the way without ever expecting to achieve that point. I've never had a single character get fully optimized in any Diablo game; there's always room for improvement, and I lose interest when it comes down to minor improvements on stat drops.

[bozoben]

If it has Micro-transactions in a game I payed for, I am not buying it. That simple.

[Sluvs]

True until Blizzard made the <sarcasm> brilliant </sarcasm> move of adding a PC client to a mobile game creating the impression—along with several posts explaining where in lore history the game belonged—that implied that it too belonged in the Diablo PC game family.

No, they aren't the same game at all. But it's not true to call it just a mobile game.

To be clear about my own views they are very simple: The game is free. People should try it out and decide for themselves.

- - - Updated - - -


You don't have to and clearly do not. You have no business telling anyone else what they should like, dislike or accept. It's laughable that ten years down the road of MTX in games and the rise of mobile games to be a bigger market than PC games that only now is it time to rage about something that will never be reversed. These games work for publishers because they are profitable and often make more money than their non-MTX counterparts. That's not a statement of support. It's a fact. That ship has left the harbor.

I do agree that they sent mixed signals. But there still a clear divide.

It is a Mobile first game. And the first is doing a lot of legwork here.

The issue, IMHO, is that i carries the diablo name.

I dont particularly care about Diablo Immortal and do not intend to play it in the near future. Nor do I hate it.

[Biomega]

I bet you people hate Path of Exile too.

Yes, but not because it has MTX

The PoE model is about as fair as it gets. Sell cosmetics, and sell some convenience. That's entirely fine. I expect D4 to be very much like that - armors and mounts, maybe some stash tabs, and extra classes every now and then alongside the usual b2p expansions (that we've had since D2:LoD anyway). No power, just ancillary stuff.

[Eosia]

They're both (technically) PC games, they're both Diablo, and when DI has massive monetary success, why wouldn't they have D4 copy it? It's only logical from their perspective.

DI was a mobile game. It was ported to PC because they got annihilated for making a big presentation about a mobile game when people were expecting to hear a major Diablo announcement about a second expansion for DIII or DIV. All they got was a condescending response of "Don't you guys have phones?".

Also, D:I has NetEase in the mix too whereas DIV is pure Blizzard.

[Kittahsmash]

"could"? lmao

Anybody who thinks the amount and level of microtransactions are going to be any different than Diablo Immoral is crazy.

[Lochton]

The listing in question, which is for a Product Manager for Diablo 4, reveals that the successful candidate "will play a critical role in managing the Diablo 4 in-game store experience," which is described by the listing as "a key component of the game's seasonal content strategy." Whoever gets the job will also be responsible for identifying sales trends and quantifying purchase behaviors, as well as using tools to configure prices and availability within the in-game store.

https://gamerant.com/diablo-4-diablo...otransactions/

The job add in question:

https://careers.blizzard.com/global/...ager-Diablo-IV

Well, they were updating that it is expansion and cosmetic intentions, of course, we can't be sure yet.

[exochaft]

DI was a mobile game. It was ported to PC because they got annihilated for making a big presentation about a mobile game when people were expecting to hear a major Diablo announcement about a second expansion for DIII or DIV. All they got was a condescending response of "Don't you guys have phones?".

Also, D:I has NetEase in the mix too whereas DIV is pure Blizzard.

I think the NetEase influence is a large factor with D:Immortal. However, beyond the types of games they are and what platforms they run on (I mean there's tons of PC games loaded with predatory P2W/MTX schemes, not just mobile games), the bigger issue is Blizz themselves.

While a lot of people may be focusing on the current debacle when it comes to D:Immortal and the shifty/evasive language we're getting from Blizz employees when it comes to the MTX aspect of the game, such practices have been around for a loooong time with Blizz... just most people forgot or didn't notice. A more recent example is with the Shadowlands expansion of WoW: if you were and alpha/beta tester for the expansion (and actually serious about testing it, not just dicking around for fun), you would know the game was going to launch in a terrible state with tons of issues. The issues ranged from systems not being good, bugs upon bugs, balancing issues, etc. While the expansion launch was delayed, it should've been delayed at least another month to fix issues, but I'm fairly certain the bean counters said no. In the weeks and months following launch, when players started noticing a bunch of the issues that were reported and mentioned during the testing phase, what did Blizz say? They basically threw the testers under the bus, playing things off as "wow, this issue/bug didn't show up in testing, we'll get right on that" and claiming that there was basically no feedback... which is utter gaslighting. Keep in mind, this is just one example, there's a ton going back over the years that I recall starting around the time Ion got promoted (not saying it's necessarily his fault, just pointing out the timeline).

While there has been some regime change at Blizz since last summer, we just traded one bad regime for another bad regime with the similar issues. While I don't doubt that there are people that care about the players and their products as Blizz, the environment there probably stifles them and/or drowns out any voice of opposition. Seriously, that sort of way of treating people is how you get sexual assault/harassment issues in the first place, the root of the problem didn't change.

At this time, I don't see how anyone can trust a word Blizz says. To be fair, when it comes to corporations (or politicians, celebrities, etc.), you should never trust what they say without verification, even if you like them. However, I kind of feel like the current cultural paradigm is to drink the Kool-aid that's fed to us by the powers at be without questioning it or even defending it rabidly when said powers are working against them to their faces. We've come a long way over several decades from questioning and rebelling against authority to championing it and fighting for the same authority (at least in the US). While Blizz may not be that big of an authority in the grand scheme of things, it's the same mindset (and probably people) who will sell their soul without realizing it, all while cheering their own demise.

[MoanaLisa]

I think the NetEase influence is a large factor with D:Immortal. However, beyond the types of games they are and what platforms they run on (I mean there's tons of PC games loaded with predatory P2W/MTX schemes, not just mobile games), the bigger issue is Blizz themselves.

Exactly right. I'm so fucking tired of people blaming Activision and Bobby Kotick and NetEase and any other fucking corporate entity as long as its not Blizzard themselves. Blizzard actually hires people that understand marketing and how to get revenue out of games. Those methodologies change over time and what once was gets supplanted by something that's more efficient, more long-term, or simply garners more revenue. Blizzard releases these game under their own imprint and it's the height of stupidity to somehow assume that Blizzard is full of good guys that are being forced to do this.

Again: BLIZZARD IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN YOUR FRIEND. THEIR SOLE PURPOSE IS TO RELEASE ENTERTAINMENT GAMES IN WHATEVER WAY GAINS THEM THE MOST PROFIT.

For fuck's sake. People should stop making excuses for them.

[Delekii]

You're only looking at a subset of PoE's microtransactions.

You mathed out a total of 770 points of content, but just a cursory glance at the online shop and there's a ton more. Single armor set packs costing 840 points. Guild stuff. Metric buttloads of cosmetics. I don't care to add it all up, but I'm sure you could easily spend thousands if not tens of thousands on PoE and still have content to buy.

The guy who spent $10k on Diablo Immortal? That was on currency to open particular rifts trying to get an endgame item ASAP. And the dude makes like $80k/month streaming, so this was essentially just a business expense; that I've heard of it says it was probably worth the investment. It's probably worth more to him getting nothing than if he'd gotten the item he was ostensibly looking for, since this is getting him tons of press. These massive figures only "matter" if you consider hitting the absolute maximum gearing as the "goal" of playing the game, rather than the journey along the way without ever expecting to achieve that point. I've never had a single character get fully optimized in any Diablo game; there's always room for improvement, and I lose interest when it comes down to minor improvements on stat drops.

You're right; I'm looking at the subset of PoE microtransactions that could possibly be considered pay to win, since that's what the guy I quoted was talking about. I don't care very much at all about cosmetic mtx, games absolutely have to monetize somehow - I don't think many people have too much issue with D4 having cosmetics?

I have bought plenty of cosmetic MTX in PoE, but only because I don't feel like GGG are trying to rob me blind. I will happily pay for things when I think the company is at least trying to act responsibly. The cosmetic MTX are massively overpriced but the stash tabs aren't, (besides the ones I believe should be baseline). Ultimately, PoE is as close to free-to-play as I think any company has ever got, while still being a for-profit model.

[arkanon]

Show me where they confirmed immortal would not do any of that.

With D4 we have devs going out literally stating there will be cosmetic and expansion content only in the store.

No, they said it would be anchored around it. See how you are hearing what you want to hear? It's already starting lol. They have worded it VERY carefully to leave the door open. They have not said "the shop will only ever have cosmetic items for sale" they have said it will be anchored around cosmetics. That does not rule out non cosmetics in the store.

[Elim Garak]

No, they said it would be anchored around it. See how you are hearing what you want to hear? It's already starting lol. They have worded it VERY carefully to leave the door open. They have not said "the shop will only ever have cosmetic items for sale" they have said it will be anchored around cosmetics. That does not rule out non cosmetics in the store.

Well even power giving items can be called cosmetics. They just make your numbers bigger and prettier.

[arkanon]

No, everyone knew Immortal was going to be exactly what it is.

Diablo 4 is a AAA Microsoft title. Stop worrying so much.

A Microsoft title? Man you are off the deep end. Microsoft have NOTHING to do with D4. It's been in development for close to a decade, and Microsoft are not in charge, the purchase isn't even completed yet. I want to make this very clear to you - if D4 is a "Microsoft game", then so is D:I.

[RobertoCarlos]

Of course it will.

You can tell this from thier choice of words in the statement "will be anchored around cosmetics"

ANCHORED

Very deliberate use of words because it doesnt exclude shit

[Endus]

You're right; I'm looking at the subset of PoE microtransactions that could possibly be considered pay to win, since that's what the guy I quoted was talking about. I don't care very much at all about cosmetic mtx, games absolutely have to monetize somehow - I don't think many people have too much issue with D4 having cosmetics?

Wait, are we calling the Diablo Immortal MTX "pay to win" when the flagship story is about a New Zealand streamer who spent $10k and didn't get anything meaningful for it?

[arkanon]

Of course it will.

You can tell this from thier choice of words in the statement "will be anchored around cosmetics"

ANCHORED

Very deliberate use of words because it doesnt exclude shit

Yup, and as expected, people have swallowed it hook line and sinker - in this very thread claiming blizzard have "officially confirmed d4 will ONLY ever have cosmetic items in the shop".

[Delekii]

Wait, are we calling the Diablo 4 MTX "pay to win" when the flagship story is about a New Zealand streamer who spent $10k and didn't get anything meaningful for it?

Did you mean to say DI? I'm confused. DI is absolutely P2W. Quin got massively more from his 10k than he would have got from spending nothing, he just didn't get a 5 star gem. That's how loot boxes work.

What D4 will be remains to be seen.

[Jerot]

Wait, are we calling the Diablo 4 MTX "pay to win" when the flagship story is about a New Zealand streamer who spent $10k and didn't get anything meaningful for it?

It's not that he didn't get anything meaningful, he is rank #1 on his server for both PvP and PvE because of it. He just didn't get a single 5/5 star gem, just a bunch of 3-4s. Not to discredit his skills as a gamer, but as a mostly full time PoE content creator, he isn't one of the people consistently finishing top in races and events, he's more of a personality streamer.

[Elim Garak]

It's not that he didn't get anything meaningful, he is rank #1 on his server for both PvP and PvE because of it. He just didn't get a single 5/5 star gem, just a bunch of 3-4s. Not to discredit his skills as a gamer, but as a mostly full time PoE content creator, he isn't one of the people consistently finishing top in races and events, he's more of a personality streamer.

Which proves you don't need 5-star gems.