Diablo 4 could end up having microtransactions

[Cthulhu 2020]

thats the same stupid reasoning as making weed illegal bcs all weed smokers will over time turn into heroin addicts...
p2w microtransactions exist bcs they make money, they would exist regardless of cosmetics...

Pre 2012, any western gamer would have balked at the idea of pay to win, loot boxes, cash grabs, etc. They would have revolted against the gaming company for doing it. It's not exactly a secret that gaming companies have been priming players with ever more and more monetization.

[Elim Garak]

DI is as close to P2W as it gets. Really only with the gems, but it's still buying power r the chance at it directly from the game without the middleman of someone playing to get said items to trade.

And yes D4 will have MTX. We knew this as far back as the reveal in 2019. They will not sell power and that was reconfirmed yesterday.

Not really, they don't sell gems directly and the crest just guarantees a drop, but you still can get drops without paying.
If anything it's just a time saver.

back in the day p2w was when you could buy more power than available thru normal play.

- - - Updated - - -

Pre 2012, any western gamer would have balked at the idea of pay to win, loot boxes, cash grabs, etc.

No. They didn't.

Even the definition of p2w was different back then.
Today everything is p2w. Except cosmetics.

P.S. Can't wait for the first game to implement fashion contests with real prizes - so even cosmetics will be p2w.

[Cthulhu 2020]

No. They didn't.

They did. Listen, I realize you're rather young. I was around back then, and most players vehemently hated the idea of in game micro transactions. They wanted a game, plain and simple. The overall attitude about COSMETIC microtransactions was one of great disdain.



Now see, your perspective might be different from mine if you're not from the west, but the western sphere of gamers VISCERALLY HATED MICROTRANSACTIONS.

[Jerot]

Not really, they don't sell gems directly and the crest just guarantees a drop, but you still can get drops without paying.
If anything it's just a time saver.

back in the day p2w was when you could buy more power than available thru normal play.

oNlY 50 yEarS oF gRiNdInG, hOw cOnVeNiEnT

Already forgot about Dawning Echos and awakened gear, 30% increased damage and 30% reduced cooldowns isn't power, using 36 gems instead of 6 gems isn't power. #1 on their server play everyday for 12h+ straight players with 5k damage and 33k health vs spent $40k 9k damage and 88k health whales.

What an absolute clown.

[Elim Garak]

They did. Listen, I realize you're rather young.

Oooh, we've got the ancient one.

I was around back then, and most players vehemently hated the idea of in game micro transactions. They wanted a game, plain and simple. The overall attitude about COSMETIC microtransactions was one of great disdain.

"most players" is just your imagination. A vocal minority is never a majority.

Now see, your perspective might be different from mine if you're not from the west, but the western sphere of gamers VISCERALLY HATED MICROTRANSACTIONS.

Yeah, yeah, now let's use some ancient logic. How come if western gamers "VISCERALLY HATED MICROTRANSACTIONS", as you so eloquently put it, we are here having them? Is it a conspiracy of evil capitalists?

[Cthulhu 2020]

"most players" is just your imagination. A vocal minority is never a majority.

Bro we know you're from the eastern hemisphere and most likely Russia, we figured this out in the off topic forums. Western audiences vehemently hated microtransactions back during the Wrath - Cata era. They grew accustomed to them over time, but that didn't change the -fact- that attitudes towards micro transactions were incredibly low around 2010 and before.

Most big pay to win mobile games from the east didn't even make their way to western shores until the mid 2010's, and most of the early ones got review bombed into oblivion because the western players saw what hot garbage they were.

Also laughing at the whole "JUST BECAUSE PLAYERS WERE LOUD JUST MEANS THEY WERE A VOCAL MINORITY" like you have no actual proof of this shit. I could go dig up a few more sources to show just how much western players HATED microtransactions, but I feel like it wouldn't be worth it, because while I'm wasting all of my time hunting down resources, you're just going to write a 5-word sentence response like "lul ur wrong" and provide no counter evidence. So it'd be a huge waste of time wouldn't it?

[Eosia]

WoW token gives you BiS gear.

Please link to this on the store plz. Also, gear != Winning. You obviously are a newer player because one of the first Cardinal Laws of WoW is "Good Gear Does Not Make a Good Player. It Just Hides Bad Ones a Little Bit"

RMAH wasn't P2W like at all. And they didn't shut it down because it was ruining the game. Their loot system was ruining the game.

If that's the case, then you just contradicted your first statement.

[Cthulhu 2020]

If that's the case, then you just contradicted your first statement.

The RMAH had one big flaw: Blizzard was only taking a percent cut and letting players have all the money.

To make bank, you have to make players buy into your currency (say, platinum) so that that money is locked into their system and can never be cashed out. It's the same with the WoW token. They justify it by saying "Oh you're buying gold from another player, not Blizzard!" But I have one simple question: "Who gets the real money?"

That's all.

[Unholyground]

A Microsoft title? Man you are off the deep end. Microsoft have NOTHING to do with D4. It's been in development for close to a decade, and Microsoft are not in charge, the purchase isn't even completed yet. I want to make this very clear to you - if D4 is a "Microsoft game", then so is D:I.

D1 will be soon as erything is complete. It is all going to gamepass as well.

[arkanon]

D1 will be soon as erything is complete. It is all going to gamepass as well.

But everything is not complete? The purchase is not final. Also, what does diablo 1 have to do with anything? Its fine to have an opinion about what may or may not go on gamepass, but lets not pretend you know this stuff to be factually true.

To be fair, although ESO is on xbox gamepass, it is NOT on pc gamepass (ultimate). Obviously a slightly different scenario, but it does show there is some disconnect here.

Personally, I think it depends on quite a few factors, the main one being how DF performs. If its doing really well by itself, I doubt it would happen, but certainly if the numbers are disappointing i could see some advantages. Im also not sure what the split looks like between gamepass and ultimate, so i have no idea how many people have ultimate.

[Hitei]

Bro we know you're from the eastern hemisphere and most likely Russia, we figured this out in the off topic forums. Western audiences vehemently hated microtransactions back during the Wrath - Cata era. They grew accustomed to them over time, but that didn't change the -fact- that attitudes towards micro transactions were incredibly low around 2010 and before.

Most big pay to win mobile games from the east didn't even make their way to western shores until the mid 2010's, and most of the early ones got review bombed into oblivion because the western players saw what hot garbage they were.

Also laughing at the whole "JUST BECAUSE PLAYERS WERE LOUD JUST MEANS THEY WERE A VOCAL MINORITY" like you have no actual proof of this shit. I could go dig up a few more sources to show just how much western players HATED microtransactions, but I feel like it wouldn't be worth it, because while I'm wasting all of my time hunting down resources, you're just going to write a 5-word sentence response like "lul ur wrong" and provide no counter evidence. So it'd be a huge waste of time wouldn't it?

Not sure why you're trying to rely so hard on this ad hominem.

Hi: I'm from the West. You're objectively wrong.

"Western audiences" did not vehemently hate microtransactions. A specific vocal minority hated microtransactions. That is why games with microtransactions had zero problem becoming huge. If you want to sit there and pretend that League of Legends was "review bombed into oblivion" rather than almost immediately jumping to one of the most popular games of all time, or that CS:GO wasn't saved from complete irrelevancy by the implementation of literal loot boxes, or that mtx hasn't been the most successful business model in gaming history; be my guest. But you're wrong.

If you want proof that you're a vocal minority, use basic critical thinking.

Why do you think that MTX keeps being put into games? Why do you think that post-wrath, Blizzard continued to add mounts and pets to the store? Why do you think games with MTX systems tend to overwhelmingly outlast those without? Why do you think F2P has been a viable model for the past decade and a half of gaming?

I will help you out: It's because for every one person screaming on a forum, or youtube about how MTX is terrible and the death of all western society, there's another 10 players who just went about bought that loot crate or vanity item and are using it on their character right now. Because the actual western audience is totally fine with microtransactions, and always has been. That is why it is a viable business model. Why games keep putting it in. Because most people have never cared.

Do you think that people had to organize "kick anyone using the transmog helms from your group" or "spit on people using the store mount" tantrums because no one was buying those things? No. They had to attempt those strategies because the average player was fine with MTX, and those implementations were successful, and they became desperate about forcing people to stop supporting it. The systems are profitable because the majority don't just not hate it, they are happy to pay for it.

Go to wowhead where you can literally see the comments posted about the celestial steed when it was added, including the up and downvoting for comments, and what will you find? That people were excited about the mount, and upvoted people who were excited about the mount, and that the handful of people whining about the mount get downvoted and mocked.

There was no "everyone hated MTX, they just got used to it years later!!!" It was always just a vocal minority bitchmoaning about it.

[Gaidax]

Not sure why you're trying to rely so hard on this ad hominem.

Hi: I'm from the West. You're objectively wrong.

"Western audiences" did not vehemently hate microtransactions. A specific vocal minority hated microtransactions. That is why games with microtransactions had zero problem becoming huge. If you want to sit there and pretend that League of Legends was "review bombed into oblivion" rather than almost immediately jumping to one of the most popular games of all time, or that CS:GO wasn't saved from complete irrelevancy by the implementation of literal loot boxes, or that mtx hasn't been the most successful business model in gaming history; be my guest. But you're wrong.

If you want proof that you're a vocal minority, use basic critical thinking.

Why do you think that MTX keeps being put into games? Why do you think that post-wrath, Blizzard continued to add mounts and pets to the store? Why do you think games with MTX systems tend to overwhelmingly outlast those without? Why do you think F2P has been a viable model for the past decade and a half of gaming?

I will help you out: It's because for every one person screaming on a forum, or youtube about how MTX is terrible and the death of all western society, there's another 10 players who just went about bought that loot crate or vanity item and are using it on their character right now. Because the actual western audience is totally fine with microtransactions, and always has been. That is why it is a viable business model. Why games keep putting it in. Because most people have never cared.

Do you think that people had to organize "kick anyone using the transmog helms from your group" or "spit on people using the store mount" tantrums because no one was buying those things? No. They had to attempt those strategies because the average player was fine with MTX, and those implementations were successful, and they became desperate about forcing people to stop supporting it. The systems are profitable because the majority don't just not hate it, they are happy to pay for it.

Go to wowhead where you can literally see the comments posted about the celestial steed when it was added, including the up and downvoting for comments, and what will you find? That people were excited about the mount, and upvoted people who were excited about the mount, and that the handful of people whining about the mount get downvoted and mocked.

There was no "everyone hated MTX, they just got used to it years later!!!" It was always just a vocal minority bitchmoaning about it.

True and real.

People keep confusing some loudmouth minority with majority par the course. The reality is that people are buying and don't even mind that much to buy.

It's like this really,



Oh no! It has 0.2 on Metacritic, that nobody gives a fuck about. Meanwhile it clocked 20+ mil bucks in a week in mobile stores alone. And almost half of it is US. People sure vehemently hate them MTX in the West, eh?

---

Some people need a serious reality check. As poster in quote said - "F2P" and Freemium models exist because they fucking work. And for every coomer on MMO-C who rushes in to push their alternative reality about how "western audiences vehemently hate MTX", there is simply a hard cold data disproving it immediately.

[The Stormbringer]

Exactly right. I'm so fucking tired of people blaming Activision and Bobby Kotick and NetEase and any other fucking corporate entity as long as its not Blizzard themselves. Blizzard actually hires people that understand marketing and how to get revenue out of games. Those methodologies change over time and what once was gets supplanted by something that's more efficient, more long-term, or simply garners more revenue. Blizzard releases these game under their own imprint and it's the height of stupidity to somehow assume that Blizzard is full of good guys that are being forced to do this.

Again: BLIZZARD IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN YOUR FRIEND. THEIR SOLE PURPOSE IS TO RELEASE ENTERTAINMENT GAMES IN WHATEVER WAY GAINS THEM THE MOST PROFIT.

For fuck's sake. People should stop making excuses for them.

They gotta keep puffing that copium and hopium, ML. I used to be just like them, hoping things would change for the better, blaming things on Activision instead. Now I've simply moved on. If they release a product that turns out to be good, I'll be pleasantly surprised and consider buying it. Otherwise, I'm not pre-ordering anything anymore, and try to tone down any hype for their announcements.

EDIT: Did they really say that Diablo 4 will have its pay-shop "anchored around cosmetic options"? They really can't just flat-out say there will be NO pay-to-win? This game is doomed.

[Th3Scourge]

As long as its cosmetic only, I don't see why anyone would really care.

PoE has a very robust shop for cosmetic and it doesn't detract from the game whatsoever.

PoE is free. D4 is not.

[kenn9530]

PoE is free. D4 is not.

There is things you have to buy in PoE or you will not progress easily, storage for trading and such and more inv space and if you buy a few cosmetic thats you spent as much as a full game realease anyway, nothing wrong with a company wanting to make as much money as possible so they actually continue to support it for the next decade or more.

[Rad1um]

Maybe you should play a game because it's fun, not because of some imaginary rankings?^^

You should write to Blizzard and send them this but replace "imaginary rankings" with "microtransations"

[Fencers]

There is things you have to buy in PoE or you will not progress easily, storage for trading and such and more inv space and if you buy a few cosmetic thats you spent as much as a full game realease anyway, nothing wrong with a company wanting to make as much money as possible so they continue to support it for the next decade or more.

I played POE without any money spent. There is no progression hindrance.

I have over 1300 hours in POE. Way over. Playing since alpha.

[Th3Scourge]

There is things you have to buy in PoE or you will not progress easily, storage for trading and such and more inv space and if you buy a few cosmetic thats you spent as much as a full game realease anyway, nothing wrong with a company wanting to make as much money as possible so they actually continue to support it for the next decade or more.

Nah you can entirely play just fine without spending a cent. GGG has had an amazing development pipeline for a F2P game. I think having the additional stash tabs as baseline would be better, and just the leave the cosmetics in the shop, but this is a reasonable middle ground for a F2P model.

[Biomega]

PoE is free. D4 is not.

That's true, but you're also getting free-game quality. While mechanical quality may be debatable, it's no question PoE's graphics, physics, voice acting etc. aren't super amazing.

It's a fine business model, but there's limitations.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Why would you base d4 in diablo immortal? Why can you assume that?

Because we've been lied to and fucked so many times by Blizzard my ass is putting out a restraining order against them? They bold faced lied about how microtransactions would work in Immoral, why in the hell would ANYONE with half a brain trust them now?