Will we still be forced to do ranked PvP in DF to be competitive in unraked PvP ?

[Tyrannica]

You made a fantastic point there. I got my 2.4K grand marshal achievement back in vanilla and then couple of times in recent wow. I saw how hard it is to obtain the titles over 2.2K in RBG if you are not paying to be boosted. I think it would be fantastic if they implemented an intermediate method of handing titles something like 1000 rated wins or something which will make people work for it but will also give them a horizon where it is possible to get this title without boosts.

Arena should remain as is Im not sure if the solo queue arena could work for rated because rating is rating. Its entirely different though we can get 2.4k every season which is not the case in RBG.

Yeah, player time should be respected. But, if you are not over 2,2K in rated games on 1 char, and just played 1000 games, losses included, someting is very wrong anyways, haha. Most people do not play as much rated at best 1/10 of that amount in a season, let alone rbgs!

Dunno, i think with 1000 rated bg wins with a rang, you should earn a hero title just for that dedication and headache.

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They should just get rid of the whole upgrading of gear to begin with, it's fucking stupid and pointless.

ONE set of honor gear and ONE set of conquest gear is all we need, no upgrading and no rating requirements for gear either.

There will be no pvp gear upgrades in DF!!!

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BuT iF yOu HaVe SkIlL yOu wIlL GeT rAtINg aNd So yOu CaN uPgRaDe yOuR gEaR

I asked holinka if they lower or remove the rating requierments, but he didnt answered. Back in mop/WoD he answered many questions

They should remove the Ratimg requierments and give us a levelsystem. You need X honorable kills and X honor to upgrade on level Y. Rated pvp gives more/bonus honor/kills and so everyone can upgrade their gear. There just need to he a catchup for alts/players who starting late into a season.

Or even better: just renove the upgrades and give me back legion or maybe wod pvp gearing.

Its really frustrating. I want to play more BGs but its wasted time, cause u dont get much conquest and arent able to upgrade the gear.

Its WoD again, no rating requirements. It would not make sense, since there are no gear upgrades in DF planned, conquest gear is just conquest gear. how could rating make sense? Don't think we see rating requirements for certain pieces like TBC/WotlK

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Its really frustrating. I want to play more BGs but its wasted time, cause u dont get much conquest and arent able to upgrade the gear.

True, btw i would prefere much more conquest like 200% more for dailies and consequent wins from random bgs and skirmishes. And arena more a prestige thing for titles, transmog and mounts and a higher conquest cap, so people doing it competetively get their gear just at a faster pace. Thats fair enough for a game like wow. Its stritcly based about time and gating.

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This, especially on alts.
Want to upgrade gear? Gotta go through the tiring nonsensical grouping treadmill.

Honestly i'm happy they at least managed to make m+ work for those of us who have no intention of long term partnerships or taste for a "flavor of the month" aproach to ranked pvp

Yeah, its all fair from an alt perspective, some peole here post like they never played an alt in their life, on my main i do not need any changes, but with an alt where i do not really know wtf i am doing and need to write some personalized macros and test my keybinds why should i be a burden in rated pvp?

Have you ever seen Pikaboo playing enhance shaman in rated arena? yeah, its really fun, but even huge expierence in arena tournaments can't carry you, if your gear sucks and you class knowledge that you supposed to play.

Unrated pvp is the place to try stuff out that works for you doing basic class practice.

[ek0zu]

The last time i greatly enjoyed pvp, which for me is by far the most relaxing & simultaneously fun thing i could in wow was in Legion, when i was entering bgs with freshly lvled toons and i could perform on par to my skill, since then -provided that i have no friends to play with and git gud (or geared)- whenever i try to pvp whether it is an arena match or a bg or open world pvp (all these are things that, under normal circumstances, i adore) i get completely obliterated and lose all motivation to do the "grind".

[saixilein]

Yeah, player time should be respected. But, if you are not over 2,2K in rated games on 1 char, and just played 1000 games, losses included, someting is very wrong anyways, haha. Most people do not play as much rated at best 1/10 of that amount in a season, let alone rbgs!

Dunno, i think with 1000 rated bg wins with a rang, you should earn a hero title just for that dedication and headache.

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There will be no pvp gear upgrades in DF!!!

When/Where did they said this? All i heared ( i guess) was that they are happy how conquest gear worked in SL.

[Tyrannica]

When/Where did they said this? All i heared ( i guess) was that they are happy how conquest gear worked in SL.

Min 5:37 the gear talks starts.

Its a little bit confusing, but Holinka basicly said there is just honor and conquest gear and that has a fixed ilvl in pvp instances(not sure about warmode, tho) and the conquest gear can still be upgraded to a higher PvE item level.

[saixilein]

Min 5:37 the gear talks starts.

Its a little bit confusing, but Holinka basicly said there is just honor and conquest gear and that has a fixed ilvl in pvp instances(not sure about warmode, tho) and the conquest gear can still be upgraded to a higher PvE item level.

DUnno if i missed this interview or just read way to fast about the topics and didnt understand it 100%. That SOME pve items can be available for pvp dont sounds perfect, but i can live with that.

[Aleksej89]

As someone who just likes doing some random epic battlegrounds for fun (no grouping up) it does suck to have a lame cap on pvp gear.

If blizz is so bent on making ranked PVP special just make the "unranked" PVP gear weak in the ranked pvp content.

That way people who only do unranked pvp can still have good gear in the unranked pvp content.

[Tyrannica]

That SOME pve items can be available for pvp dont sounds perfect, but i can live with that.

Better 2 hand PvE weapons are ok, to keep RMP at bay...like it used to be in WotlK for example.

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As someone who just likes doing some random epic battlegrounds for fun (no grouping up) it does suck to have a lame cap on pvp gear.

If blizz is so bent on making ranked PVP special just make the "unranked" PVP gear weak in the ranked pvp content.

That way people who only do unranked pvp can still have good gear in the unranked pvp content.

This was the case in WoD and is returning in Dragon Flight. Capping was easy in Ashran, dunno if DF has such a system. But it was also easy in 2s Arenas, because so many played it, not just try hards.

The cosmetic rewards should be good enough, transmog, mount and title...for what else should one rank up? Don't think its an issue for anyone to rank up to rival/duelist with a main, but with alts it becomes an annoying issue to rank up for gear and thats one of the many main issues with SL the other is the poor class design, classes that used to be slow and tanky are now neither to comply with the current fast pvp meta.

[Kagthul]

the contents of the post had nothing to do with the scenario u described though?

You know you can tell its actually two posts, right?

When it says “updated” like that, its the system mashing two posts together.

So, yeah, the two responses are to two dofferent people about two different things. Herpa derp.

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The last time i greatly enjoyed pvp, which for me is by far the most relaxing & simultaneously fun thing i could in wow was in Legion, when i was entering bgs with freshly lvled toons and i could perform on par to my skill, since then -provided that i have no friends to play with and git gud (or geared)- whenever i try to pvp whether it is an arena match or a bg or open world pvp (all these are things that, under normal circumstances, i adore) i get completely obliterated and lose all motivation to do the "grind".

Lolwhut? Legion had the largest possible gear gap because of how the iLevel scaling worked and compounded with artifact weapon powers/talents. It was absurdly easy to be 20-25% behind in stats (vs the 9% disparity between Honor and Conquest that existed previously for most of the life of the game). During the last patch, you could be 40% behind.

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As someone who just likes doing some random epic battlegrounds for fun (no grouping up) it does suck to have a lame cap on pvp gear.

If blizz is so bent on making ranked PVP special just make the "unranked" PVP gear weak in the ranked pvp content.

That way people who only do unranked pvp can still have good gear in the unranked pvp content.

Honestly, this isnt an awful idea. Just have the ranked gear be even higher iLevel in ranked instances only. If we can have varying PvE vs PvP iLevels, theres no reason we can have gear with three iLevels - PvE, PvP, rated PvP.

[RelaZ]

Better 2 hand PvE weapons are ok, to keep RMP at bay...like it used to be in WotlK for example.

WotLK is a horrible example when it comes to the power of PvE items. Literally 1/3rd of BiS was PvE gear for almost all specs.

Almost everything that Blizzard has proposed so far is good, except them not letting PvP gear scale above mythic gear.

We will inevitably have a new Getti'ku in DF, possibly even Drestagath/Bike (even with the trinket set bonus) and the entire PvP community will be forced to join hardcore raiding guilds or buy boosts.

I find it incredibly hypocritical of Blizzard that PvP gear cannot be upgraded all the way up to Mythic ilvl in PvE, yet Mythic gear is the same ilvl as BiS PvP gear in PvP.

Lolwhut? Legion had the largest possible gear gap because of how the iLevel scaling worked and compounded with artifact weapon powers/talents. It was absurdly easy to be 20-25% behind in stats (vs the 9% disparity between Honor and Conquest that existed previously for most of the life of the game). During the last patch, you could be 40% behind.

I've said this many times, I don't agree with Kagthul on 99% of things - but at least he's got Legion gearing right. Legion gearing was awful in every way possible and anyone who claims otherwise is clueless.

The debate is not about gearing vs not gearing. It's pretty obvious most WoW players want there to be gearing. It's a dead discussion which will only ever lead to flawed systems like the Legion system - we will never get full equalization in PvP on regular WoW servers.

The real questions are:
A) How large should, in PvP, the difference between ranked gear and unranked gear be?
B) How fast/easy should it be to gear up in PvP?
C) How good should PvE gear be compared to PvP gear?

The PvP community has been very vocal about the answers for a long time:
A) The gap should be non-existant. The only difference should/could be the difference in time to get the gear.
B) It should be fast to get geared up, both unranked gear and ranked gear. It should even be instant to get a "basic" set (crafted) and it should also be easy and fast to get 100% caught up (via some "catch up" system) on ranked gear.
C) It should be inferior, we do not want to be forced to do "just 1 boss of Mythic" to get a broken item / superior itemization. "1 boss of Mythic" means either buying boosts or joining a hardcore raid team, which we do not want to do.

[Tyrannica]

WotLK is a horrible example when it comes to the power of PvE items. Literally 1/3rd of BiS was PvE gear for almost all specs.

Think the gear was fair enough in ICC, but with the heavy catch of ArP stacked on pyhsical classes like hunter and warrior, that felt like a very big exploit with ICC raid gear. 2 shots through plate and DKs bloodpresence AND resilence max gear shouldn't be possible or killing Treeform druids with max hp and resilence gear in 2 gcds on a very short cd, but it was, and thus this exploit was removed in cataclysm.

It will fly under the radar in the first phases with only few gear pieces availible, but soon will catch up and make peoples life miserable.

So instead than removing solo que dungeons, which makes zero sense, since they are so easy and no manual group search is needed other than to waste players time, blizz should consider to remove ArP from WotlK classic - it will screw up and honestly i would not suggest to play any DD without heavy physical dmg, because of this. Warriors and MM hunters will be a pain. The first one in arena and the latter in bgs, even without ArP, but especially with it. 2 shotting people through resilence gear every few seconds, because those classes have very short instant dmg cds as well.

Wotlk PvP is nothing like TBC PvP, for several reasions. Brave are the ones that dare to play a healer or clothie DD.

[RelaZ]

Think the gear was fair enough in ICC, but with the heavy catch of ArP stacked on pyhsical classes like hunter and warrior, that felt like a very big exploit with ICC raid gear. 2 shots through plate and DKs bloodpresence AND resilence max gear shouldn't be possible or killing Treeform druids with max hp and resilence gear in 2 gcds on a very short cd, but it was, and thus this exploit was removed in cataclysm.

You don't seem to really understand the meaning of the word "exploit" to be honest.

It will fly under the radar in the first phases with only few gear pieces availible, but soon will catch up and make peoples life miserable.

It won't, there are many PvE BiS items already in Naxx. People min-max these days.

So instead than removing solo que dungeons, which makes zero sense...

From a Classic perspective of trying to maintain a need to be social instead of making yet another World of Queuecraft it makes a lot of sense.

blizz should consider to remove ArP from WotlK classic - it will screw up and honestly i would not suggest to play any DD without heavy physical dmg, because of this.

You seem to have completely forgot all the non-ArP gear such as Solace, Bauble, Shadowmourne, DFO, Death's Verdict, Val'anyr, Charred Twilight Scale etc.

[Fantazma]

WOD has given us the best system to equip in PVP ever. It was so perfect and good for PVP players that it made Hazzikostas remove the system as quickly as possible and today that crap is there.

[AlmightyGerkin]

We've all heard the same phrase stated by them of "we are looking at the community feedback seriously" only to do something completely stupid.

[klaps_05]

Their policy hasnt changed - if you want to have the biggest edge, do both contents.

[killjoyfromwow]

man i hope so! no way a trash back peddling casual should even be allowed to look at me without dying instantly!

like wtf is the whole point of the game? get 2800 go stomp retards who think they are good!

WOD was literally the worse pvp gearing ever!

bring back WOTLK gearing!

[FAILoZOFF]

We tried that in legion and it was disliked. Wow is still an mmo after all and gear should matter. To what degree is what should be discussed.

I wouldn't point my finger on lack of gear progression tbh. WoD system was the closest to "gear-less" system WoW has ever been.
In WoD it was just that, gear, you started relatively shit by comparion to somone that played for some time, but you could farm in no time blue gear that was what, 10ilvl lower than BiS epics? Then that blues could also warforge making them just 4 ilvl lower than epics that at the time were already on the same item budget as greens and blues given same ilvl. Then you had a catch up on arena points. So betwerrn epics from catch ups, warforges and normal blues you were just a few ilvl overall compared to full BiS epic geared people. And all of that in a matter of hours basically.

Legion had templates that were affected by overall ilvl. Legiondaries (there were preffered one for pvp so if you didn't get the right one right away you were out of luck for next couple of weeks), Artifacts and their power upgrades AAAAND artifact reseach that let you equip 2nd legiondary item. There was no catch up on that.

Counting everything its pretty clear that a fresh char in WoD had much better standing than a fresh char in Legion. Stupid people just hear keyword "templates" and assume things that in wo way correspond to reality.

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WOD has given us the best system to equip in PVP ever. It was so perfect and good for PVP players that it made Hazzikostas remove the system as quickly as possible and today that crap is there.

we gootta enjoy the ride, not destination <3 lols

[melzas]

Isn’t it so weird that you have to do ranked pvp in order to get gear to be able to properly do ranked pvp?

No, because you can easily get at least 1400 rating in honor gear (if you know basic of PvP) which is already 3 tiers worth of upgrades.

And very skilled players can get 1800 or even more without conquest gear at all.

[melzas]

Im talking about obtaining conquest points, not rating. If you are a fresh dinged 60 the only way to get conquest gear (outside of the weekly quest) is really to spam ranked pvp in some fashion. Which is a disheartening process when you are constantly getting your shit pushed in by 90k+ warriors and DKs along the way lol

Yeah which is the way it should be, if you start late you get destroyed by people who spent whole season gearing up, otherwise what's the point of grooming your character, playing daily, getting upgrades?

Not to mention you can funnel gear from your main via lootboxes to alts and literally gear them up within a day or two, something we didn't have in older expansions.

You also get a lot of conquest from daily win in random BG, epic BG, solo shuffle (+ two weeklies) brawl (+weekly), 3 oribos weeklies, skirmish and a weekly BG/arena if that's up.

Seriously, when someone complains that gearing in SL PvP is slow or tedious I wonder if they even play a game. I just geared my paladin to 276 PvP ilvl in one weekly lockout... I mean, come on...

[Battlebeard]

Gear in PvP is an oudated concept. I get it for PvE, you progress harder and harder raids and difficulties, but in PvP it makes no sense. Make PvP ONLY about skill, scale all gear to the same level in BGs and Arena!

[Ealyssa]

Like it's already the case in SL where you need to do ranked to upgrade your conquest gear.

There is no such thing as "competitive non competitive" mode. Tryharding in random is just cringe AF

If you want to be "competitive" why not just do ranked and quit being afraid of actual competitiveness ?