Proof Survival should be a tank spec in Dragonflight

[lazypeon100]

Turning survival melee opened the door for everyone to suggest horrible changes to the class. This is a bad idea, make the hunter class appealing to hunter players, thanks.

[Revamp Man]

In 5 mans yes. When I make groups around 75% of the classes which can tank sign up as tanks. It isn't hard to tank there just is near zero overlap between ranged dps and tank.

- - - Updated - - -



There is other content outside raid which is where the shortage is.

- - - Updated - - -

so the math still holds just even more because you can only use one tank so that means you will have fewer tanks of the lower ranked classes
I get your point but adding a tank spec just to add a tank spec is a bad idea since we have gotten a tank with every hero class until now and we are just now starting to get a decent balance of "this tanks does X"

[wrynil]

Bullshit, more tank specs don't make more tanks.

Have there been cases where existing classes got a tank specc introduced? Its always been new classes joining with a tank specc I think. I could see people enjoying their warlock and playing tank if they got a specc for it (not that I like the idea, just playing around with it).

[Eosia]

You shouldn't claim others haven't played the game when you don't understand why ranged dps specs lacking a Tanking spec leads to shortage of tanks in 5 man content

No, I understand what leads to a lack of tanking. And the availability of classes with a Ranged DPS and Melee Tank spec isn't it. Those other factors have been listed repeatedly in this thread. And yet none of you actually dispute them. You just keep repeating your logical fallacy over and over and over and over again as if that would make it true.

[Xath]

No, I understand what leads to a lack of tanking. And the availability of classes with a Ranged DPS and Melee Tank spec isn't it. Those other factors have been listed repeatedly in this thread. And yet none of you actually dispute them. You just keep repeating your logical fallacy over and over and over and over again as if that would make it true.

So you don't understand anything even when it's explained, got it

- - - Updated - - -

so the math still holds just even more because you can only use one tank so that means you will have fewer tanks of the lower ranked classes
I get your point but adding a tank spec just to add a tank spec is a bad idea since we have gotten a tank with every hero class until now and we are just now starting to get a decent balance of "this tanks does X"

And not a single "hero class" had had a ranged dps spec all their dps specs have been melee

[Triceron]

Dunno, I main shaman since wotlk, if I could play tank I would (at least as an offspec). I'm sure there are more people like me.

You can tank right now by rolling any tank.

Tanking comes from a willingness to roll a tank. That includes changing a main.

[Swnem]

For some reason people who liked old SV don't matter and only people who like new SV do.

- - - Updated - - -



Have you seen how most hunters handle their pets? It would be a god damn living nightmare.

Wouldn't require management. I was thinking of a mitigation mechanic where the pet takes a part of the damage as if it was a block or stagger mechanic. The hunter would have to manage their health and the pet's. Doesn't really matter what the pet it attacking. The survival hunter would still be the tank, not the pet.

[Le Conceptuel]

This is where we are in Shadowlands:

• Current tank specs: 6
• Current healer specs: 6
• Current melee specs: 13
• Current ranged specs: 11

Dragonflight adds 1 healer class and 1 ranged class.

Dragonflight with Evoker:

• Current tank specs: 6
• Current healer specs: 7
• Current melee specs: 13
• Current ranged specs: 12

This is nearly balanced, but not quite. Survival can help re-balance it. If you consider the community response to Survival since it's melee change - most of current Survival players are only playing it because of it's damage output, not because the spec itself is good. Then things could look like this.

Dragonflight if Survival turns into a tank spec:

• Current tank specs: 7
• Current healer specs: 7
• Current melee specs: 12
• Current ranged specs: 12

This incidentally makes Tank and Healer specs be 18.4% of the available specs, close enough to the 20% they should be to have a healthy population to enable Dungeons.

So this is the statistical case to make Survival into a tank spec. Blizzard I believe in your come back, you can do it!

I don't quite think that this is "proof", nor is it strictly "statistical". It is an interesting idea, nonetheless. I can see the necessity of it, but I think you're overestimating the weight of this observation.

[melzas]

Adding a tank to the game does not result in more tanks. Period.

You can 'yikes' yourself until the cows come home, but it won't change shit.

Thanks for making it clear that you and logic aren't the best friends around.

- - - Updated - - -

You can tank right now by rolling any tank.

Tanking comes from a willingness to roll a tank. That includes changing a main.

Nah, tanking comes from speccing into a tank spec, which not every class has.

[Triceron]

Nah, tanking comes from speccing into a tank spec, which not every class has.

Then play the class that has a Tank spec.

People who play a Tank-viable class aren't assed to change out main specs to become an off-Tank either.

Tanking comes from the willingness to play a Tank. Having it as an offspec isn't gonna change anything, since people are gonna stick to their main specs with no urgency to swap to anything else. Everyone has the option to create a Tank alt, yet almost no one cares to. If they did, they would already be tanking.

[Relapses]

Bullshit, more tank specs don't make more tanks.

You know what does bring more tanks? Making tanks do more damage than DPS.

#BringBackVengeance

[Jujudrood]

Changing surv to tank won't make all the BM players with their pokemon pet collections suddenly become interested in tanking, and if it does, have you _seen_ a good healthy chunk of hunters?
I've witnessed far more BMs die in fire and by other avoidable mechanics and it's a spec that can literally jump in circles nonstop and not miss a single beat of dps.
You want _these_ people tanking?

But sarcasm aside, could surv be a tank spec? Sure, why not. Hell, any spec could do anything at this point and I probably wouldn't care much.
Does it need to be so for some mythical balance? No, not at all.
Will it increase the overall tank pool? Probably not in any significant manner that anyone would notice.
Will it be a FOTM decision on whether to bring one? Yep, just like everything else.
Will it end up being a large development effort for not a lot of gain? Prolly so...

[Azharok]

Yeah because when you have nothing left to argue about you just attack the other person. Classic!

If you think giving hunters a tanking spec is going to make them suddenly want to tank....well then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I personnaly would tank as SV if only for the RP factor. I find the idea kinda cool. But I've only ever played melee SV (and before it was arguably broken). My prefered tanking class isn't in great shape currently and I don't enjoy it's playstyle :/.

[cocomen2]

Sorry for off-topic, but don't you find it funny that developers given up on ugly-mail armor that it not gonna even be visible on Evoker class.


REMOVE MAIL ARMOR FROM THE GAME, PLEASE; let Hunters wear cool Leather!

[Eosia]

So you don't understand anything even when it's explained, got it

You haven't explained it. You're making an assumption based on something you've pulled out of your butt. You have zero data to back up your claim. If you have it, present it. Otherwise I accept your surrender.

[Xath]

You haven't explained it. You're making an assumption based on something you've pulled out of your butt. You have zero data to back up your claim. If you have it, present it. Otherwise I accept your surrender.

I literally did present data? The majority of dps in ce level raid teams is ranged. A significant majority in fact. These types of players aren't going to screw around on a tank alt til their weekly chores are done and since that's 8 M+ most won't do it after either. If you give ranged dps classes a tanking spec or honestly just turn an unused talent into a tanking thing like gladiator stance but opposite it would help the tanking population in 5 mans. How much is questionable but it would help that's undeniable because even 1 person tanking in 5 mans would be an increase.

[melzas]

Yeah because when you have nothing left to argue about you just attack the other person. Classic!

If you think giving hunters a tanking spec is going to make them suddenly want to tank....well then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

on'

I never said giving hunters a tanking specis going to make them suddenly want to tank, so stop putting words into my mouth, ok? My point is that there are surely players among hunters, who would pick up tanking if given the chance. You can pretend it's not true, I don't really care, but don't create arguements in your head becaue that just makes you look extremely silly.

- - - Updated - - -

Then play the class that has a Tank spec.

People who play a Tank-viable class aren't assed to change out main specs to become an off-Tank either.

Tanking comes from the willingness to play a Tank. Having it as an offspec isn't gonna change anything, since people are gonna stick to their main specs with no urgency to swap to anything else. Everyone has the option to create a Tank alt, yet almost no one cares to. If they did, they would already be tanking.

Not everyone plays the way you do. Some people don't play alts much, if at all, and are sticking to their mains for whatever reason. Some people wouldn't mind tanking on their mains, but they are not going to start new character from scratch for it either.

[username993720]

No. Survival should remain a DPS spec.
The issue is that they've blurred its identity. It's now a Ranger, but one that attack with spears in melee. It's also a pet spec. And, it uses explosives. In short, its a mix of several different identities.

Survival should be based on the Headhunter and Berserker. Spear or axe throwers who specialize in killing beasts.

[sam86]

No, if anything survival should return to ranged, as it was for (14? 12?) years
no one plays hunter to melee dps, or tank for that matter

[Eosia]

I literally did present data? The majority of dps in ce level raid teams is ranged. A significant majority in fact. These types of players aren't going to screw around on a tank alt til their weekly chores are done and since that's 8 M+ most won't do it after either. If you give ranged dps classes a tanking spec or honestly just turn an unused talent into a tanking thing like gladiator stance but opposite it would help the tanking population in 5 mans. How much is questionable but it would help that's undeniable because even 1 person tanking in 5 mans would be an increase.

No, you're presenting assumptions and suppositions. Not data. You have no numbers to back up your claim. Sorry 'bout it.