Poll: Do you Support Assault Weapons Ban?

  1. #59101
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    All you've done in sprinkle an entire forum with nation bashing sentiments. How you are still an active user on this beyond reason.
    and all you've done is scream and misuse terms when met with arguments you are not equipped to deal with honestly.

  2. #59102
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    American here, he is in no way, shape, or form "bashing" America.

    If your feelings are being hurt that's a "you" problem, but he's not bashing the nation I live in. He's highlighting a problem in the country, which is not nation bashing unless your position is that any criticism of a nation is inherently "bashing".

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    ...I honestly can't tell if your serious or this is just you continuing to try to be cute.

    Because if you're serious here, like, holy fucking shit dude. I guess America is in a perpetual state of civil war?
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    and all you've done is scream and misuse terms when met with arguments you are not equipped to deal with honestly.
    That could be true. But I didn't go to school for years for a degree in mathematics for some red-skinned avatar to tell me i'm wrong about statistics. His google-fu didn't work.

  3. #59103
    "well regulated militia"

    like the patriot front, obviously.

    I guess that's the real problem here, huh? we don't want no government telling our brave, red bloodied men and women who wear white hoods and have meetings in the woods on the weekend to have to suffer from the indignity of not having a small army's worth of guns lying around.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2022-06-14 at 09:53 PM.

  4. #59104
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Yeah, of course. No developed nation is currently going through any kind of mass shootings on a daily basis.
    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

    There's a reason the USA's bright orange color pops so much on that map. And it isn't population. The highest any other country had in that decade was Mexico, with 8 school shootings. And they've got more than a third of the USA's population; ~130m to ~330m. So triple that to 24 to be generous, and it's still 10x less than the USA.

    School shootings are vanishingly rare, outside the USA. In the USA? Basically a weekly occurrence in that decade. This is a uniquely American issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    All you've done in sprinkle an entire forum with nation bashing sentiments. How you are still an active user on this beyond reason.
    Because literally nothing I've said is "nation bashing". Criticism isn't "bashing". Especially not when I "bash" specific individuals for their specific actions, choices, and rhetoric, which isn't about the nation at all. For instance, if I call Thomas Jefferson a hypocritical slave-raping abusive shitbrain who's arguably one of history's greater monsters, that's not "nation-bashing". That's "Jefferson-bashing", or it would be, if I weren't explicitly correct on those accusations and fully able to back them up with receipts.


  5. #59105
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    In which I remind you that Constitutional Amendments can be changed.

    See the 18th Amendment, followed by the 21st Amendment.

    You act like just the text of the Second Amendment is some kind of self-contained argument which...champ, it's not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Saying people enjoy seeing children get hurt, is clearly ad hominem. Saying the country does the same thing, is nation bashing.
    It's not. It's a reflection of the current discourse on how to resolve the uniquely American problem of mass shootings.

    On one side you have proposals that are backed by data that would reduce overall gun violence and mass shootings.

    On the other side you have proposals arguing for more guns, which is contradicted by data showing that more guns doesn't mean safety, and talking about training teachers to be armed security guards and building "man traps" while turning schools into functional prison buildings.

  6. #59106
    I guess it's not beyond the pale to connect the same argument for "more guns" being the same as "more lanes on the freeway" thinking that will solve traffic congestion.

  7. #59107
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    That could be true. But I didn't go to school for years for a degree in mathematics for some red-skinned avatar to tell me i'm wrong about statistics. His google-fu didn't work.
    While we're making shit up, I should mention I have 15 doctorates in advanced mega-calculus.

    It's super easy to make empty claims that won't be backed up on the Internet, dude. Maybe try being correct rather than relying on some accreditation you claim that no one has any capacity to verify and wouldn't make you magically correct even if they could.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52247318302164

    Even just a glance at Table 1 should be plenty.


  8. #59108
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Are some of you guys like, actually incapable of imagining a country where you don't have to be scared to live in? A country where buying a gun for self-defense is completely unnecessary? That shouldn't be a high bar to reach for the richest country on the planet, when others have done so with ease, but here we go. That's what these arguments of needing a gun for self-defense sounds like to me. You are afraid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  9. #59109
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Saying people enjoy seeing children get hurt, is clearly ad hominem. Saying the country does the same thing, is nation bashing.
    To put a point on this: https://www.salon.com/2022/06/14/tex...od-has-a-plan/

    This is the attorney general of Texas.

    "If I lost one of my children I'd be pretty devastated, especially in a way that is so senseless and seemingly has no purpose," he continued. "I think ... I would just have to say, if I had the opportunity to talk to the people I'd have to say, look, there's always a plan. I believe God always has a plan. Life is short no matter what it is. And certainly, we're not going to make sense of, you know, a young child being shot and killed way before their life expectancy."

  10. #59110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    To put a point on this: https://www.salon.com/2022/06/14/tex...od-has-a-plan/

    This is the attorney general of Texas.
    I must say, this plan for US kids sure feels quite different from what God has planned for other western kids. God sure moves in mysterious ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  11. #59111
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Now we're moving goalposts to "bolt-action" which, fine, let's entertain this.

    How many rounds can someone reasonably pump out per minute with a bolt-action - https://www.wideopenspaces.com/shoot...ast-semi-auto/

    Damn, 10 in 6.5s is fast! However he's completely uninterrupted while chambering rounds and this doesn't really include the additional time for reloading and whatnot, even the act of chambering a round interrupts the shooter vs. a semi-automatic where the only time you stop shooting is if your magazine is dry.

    But the world record? 35 shots in 1 minute which...seems extremely low compared to most semi-automatic rifles? - https://www.cleveland.com/nation/201...tomatic_1.html

    Accounting for magazine changes and not "world record" level speeds put it at around 138 rounds per minute.

    I sure think that one choice of weapon - semi-automatic - is gonna be the obvious one if your goal is maximum damage in the shortest period of time.
    I'm not moving the goalposts. The banned guy mentioned bolt action rifles.

    The Uvalde shooter had 90 minutes and killed 19 and wounded 17. How different do you think the outcome would be with a bolt action? Very likely some of those wounded might be dead with a higher caliber.

    But let's just say it's half at 9. That's still on the higher end. Hell Consider virginia tech was 33 dead and that was done with two pistols. But are you willing to accept 9?

  12. #59112
    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    I'm not moving the goalposts. The banned guy mentioned bolt action rifles.

    The Uvalde shooter had 90 minutes and killed 19 and wounded 17. How different do you think the outcome would be with a bolt action? Very likely some of those wounded might be dead with a higher caliber.

    But let's just say it's half at 9. That's still on the higher end. Hell Consider virginia tech was 33 dead and that was done with two pistols. But are you willing to accept 9?
    I mean...out of curiosity how many of the routine mass shootings in the US are done with bolt action rifles? Just curious so we can get some baseline data before going further down this rabbit hole.

  13. #59113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    I'm not moving the goalposts. The banned guy mentioned bolt action rifles.

    The Uvalde shooter had 90 minutes and killed 19 and wounded 17. How different do you think the outcome would be with a bolt action? Very likely some of those wounded might be dead with a higher caliber.

    But let's just say it's half at 9. That's still on the higher end. Hell Consider virginia tech was 33 dead and that was done with two pistols. But are you willing to accept 9?
    It's also funny that people think that "not semi-automatic" means "bolt-action".

    IIRC, there was someone in the UK who developed a manual action AR platform in which the trigger alternated between firing a round and loading the next round. Because the round was not automatically loaded and a manual operation was required, the firearm could not be considered semi-automatic, despite the fact that there was hardly a decrease in capable firing speed.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  14. #59114
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    It's also funny that people think that "not semi-automatic" means "bolt-action".
    I mean, it doesn't and I don't think there are many people who think the only options are "semi-automatic, fully automatic, or bolt-action".

    It's also a fairly pedantic point to be arguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    IIRC, there was someone in the UK who developed a manual action AR platform in which the trigger alternated between firing a round and loading the next round. Because the round was not automatically loaded and a manual operation was required, the firearm could not be considered semi-automatic, despite the fact that there was hardly a decrease in capable firing speed.
    Interesting factoid, but does this have any bearing on the current discussion? Are these weapons in circulation in the US? Are they being used regularly in mass shootings, or even non-mass shootings?

    I'm not knocking the interesting factoid/being sarcastic despite my other questions, that's actually neat and I'm currently trying to find out more about it so if you remember more then please share (my google-fu on this is weak).

  15. #59115
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean...out of curiosity how many of the routine mass shootings in the US are done with bolt action rifles? Just curious so we can get some baseline data before going further down this rabbit hole.
    Don't dodge.

  16. #59116
    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Don't dodge.
    I...can't help but laugh at the irony here.

    The point remains though, bolt-action weapons don't seem to be a popular weapon of choice when it comes to both gun violence and mass shootings. If it was, I think we'd have more to discuss on the topic.

  17. #59117
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's also a fairly pedantic point to be arguing.
    Hardly.

    But I forgot; you and many others, when faced with something you don't understand (or simply don't want to address) are quick to attempt to call it a "pedantic point" as a deflection technique.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Interesting factoid, but does this have any bearing on the current discussion? Are these weapons in circulation in the US? Are they being used regularly in mass shootings, or even non-mass shootings?
    Why would they be when semi-automatics aren't banned and a semi-automatic action is more convenient? If semi-automatics as a whole were banned in the US, however, I have absolutely zero doubt that you'd see any number of such or similar inventions being developed and sold. And then the difference would mean next to nothing when it comes to mass shooting casualties.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm not knocking the interesting factoid/being sarcastic despite my other questions, that's actually neat and I'm currently trying to find out more about it so if you remember more then please share (my google-fu on this is weak).
    I can't find it either; I'd read about it years ago but there aren't a lot of unique-enough search terms to narrow down the results effectively.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #59118
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Hardly.

    But I forgot; you and many others, when faced with something you don't understand (or simply don't want to address) are quick to attempt to call it a "pedantic point" as a deflection technique.
    I mean, who specifically appeared to think that the only options for non-automatic weapons were "bolt action and semi automatic"? Y'all act like because people can't list every single part on every weapon that they can't have any opinion on guns or something. That's a ludicrous and unreasonable measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Why would they be when semi-automatics aren't banned and a semi-automatic action is more convenient? If semi-automatics as a whole were banned in the US, however, I have absolutely zero doubt that you'd see any number of such or similar inventions being developed and sold. And then the difference would mean next to nothing when it comes to mass shooting casualties.
    So...similar to bump stocks in terms of their ultimate effect?

    Because last I checked those are largely illegal as of a few years back (IIRC following the Las Vegas massacre where they were used to achieve near fully-automatic rates of fire), though there are legal challenges in place. I'd hope and imagine that the laws wouldn't be so narrowly written as to be so extremely easily circumvented, otherwise that's a failure of the writing of the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I can't find it either; I'd read about it years ago but there aren't a lot of unique-enough search terms to narrow down the results effectively.
    Damn, genuinely interested to see the mechanics in action, it sounds like a neat little bit of engineering.

  19. #59119
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I...can't help but laugh at the irony here.

    The point remains though, bolt-action weapons don't seem to be a popular weapon of choice when it comes to both gun violence and mass shootings. If it was, I think we'd have more to discuss on the topic.
    Semi auto rifles aren't a popular choice either but yet here we are.

  20. #59120
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Semi auto rifles aren't a popular choice either but yet here we are.
    Yes, handguns are overwhelmingly used more in both.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

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