New talent trees lead to more customization

[Revamp Man]

Mid-way on the dk class tree is only survivability talents while both left/right sides offer DPS.

i meant in terms of the talent point requirements but yeah you can move down the two sides of the tree and avoid it entirely but personally id take it over the CC options

[Swnem]

oh trust me,if you try to be cute and not pick raid cds or interupts or dispels,you know....stuff you get for free now,you will 100% not be invited to shit

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this is proly the most delusional thing i have seen on this website

''the 1%'' have like 1% of the content in the game,everything else is casualy friendly,m0 is piss easy,so is m+ until the much later levels,normal is easy,worlds quests are easy

99% of the content in this game that offers gear is piss easy,heck even mythic raids have plenty of piss easy bosses if your half decent

Ok, why is the raid 4 difficulties? Why is mythic+ in at all? You are being purposely deceptive. The game is designed for e-sports. The looting system, the weekly caps, the progression system. It is all cause of the 1%. 99% of the content is stripped down versions of the content made for the e-sports.
If you wish to ignore that fact, go ahead, but don't waste my time. The delusional post is yours.

[deenman]

Ok, why is the raid 4 difficulties? Why is mythic+ in at all? You are being purposely deceptive. The game is designed for e-sports. The looting system, the weekly caps, the progression system. It is all cause of the 1%. 99% of the content is stripped down versions of the content made for the e-sports.
If you wish to ignore that fact, go ahead, but don't waste my time. The delusional post is yours.

no,the game was for the 1% back when there was one difficulty,only very few people saw those raids,or did heroic in tbc

yes i know these days that content is easy,but back then it wasnt for the averege joe

btw i dont like the 4 difficulties either,but thats catering to the casuals,not the hardcore

[muto]

Icy veins will tell us what the best spec/talents are and if you deviate from that you will not be invited to raids and mythic+.

Yeah this. There will be a pvp spec, mythic+ spec, and a raid spec.

[puddypounce]

You can play whatever talent set up you want. Anybody who actively inspects your talent build before inviting because they think that will make the difference is usually terrible and you don't want to be in their group anyways. That is peak thinks they are good at the game but are actually trash behavior.

[Gurahk]

I think there'll definitely be cookie cutter builds, but at the same time you'll be able to be a bit more flexible, like say you'll not copy everything 1:1, maybe a few talent points goes into here e.t.c.

[klaps_05]

Feels a bit unfair that some classes can completely skip interrupt while others have to take it as a mandatory point.

[cparle87]

anyone who played wrath remember the nightmare of balance, and the insane weird builts that came all time, from MM hunter with prep, sub/combat rogue infinity combo build, and so on
Probably only thing i'm actually positive about next exp and loving it, can't wait for test some weird builts that on paper shouldn't work only to produce a broken pvp or raid build (infinity combo points rogue was broken in raid setting only for example)
So wait, who knows how will it scale, protadin scaled so well with pvp gear that paladin was healing with it in arenas until blizz nerfed it (to the ground, baby!) and for the 1502 time pull their hair from how creative playerbase is with actual free customizable talents

I remember my feral having literally 2 points of wiggle room. 4 energy off the cost of mangle if I was the mangle bitch, and 1 second longer bash stun if we had an arms warrior.

[arkanon]

Given covenant numbers before they were swappable not only do I know we showed the silent majority doesn't exist.

Yet we will repeat this derpy thing till the end of wow.

To be fair, i loaded a freinds account - she had 4 max level and modestly geared toons. 3/4 were the "top" covenants. She doesnt even know what icyveins is and chose them because she thought they suited the spec best, or liked the ability the most. We know WHAT people picked - we have absolutely no data at all on WHY they chose it.

I do absolutely agree MANY people will just do what a guide tells them, or what their friend tells them (after the friend checks a guide). I just think hardcore fans really struggle to understand they are a tiny minority, and very few people follow guides and forums and discords and twitter etc etc etc like we do.

[Nymrohd]

My question, which I will raise to Blizz if I get in the beta is simple. Will the easier content in the game be balanced for people with very poor builds? Because the game will allow for very poor builds. Which means the world content will be even less challenging than it is now. They tend to balance certain things for the lowest common denominator however with this change they are expanding the range by an impressive amount.

[Lolites]

You can play whatever talent set up you want.

no, i cant, bcs i have to spend points on current BASELINE abilities, thats the problem... as frost dk i cant even play the build i play right now, i would need at least 5 more points...

[Nymrohd]

no, i cant, bcs i have to spend points on current BASELINE abilities, thats the problem... as frost dk i cant even play the build i play right now, i would need at least 5 more points...

Yeah I was trying to build frost yesterday and I noticed that too. The actives and impactful passives are on the extremes of the tree instead of closer to the middle so it's hard to pick them.

[Lolites]

Yeah I was trying to build frost yesterday and I noticed that too. The actives and impactful passives are on the extremes of the tree instead of closer to the middle so it's hard to pick them.

yep, if i want to play obliteration/icecap build ill be only able to play single target, or if i want to use some aoe then i cant pick talents that makes my obliterate stronger... which for obliteration is outright idiotic, not to mention if i want to pick obliteration/icecap i HAVE TO pick pillar... how and why is that not baseline? not picking it literaly makes icecap and obliterate pointless as they are tied to it...

current frost dk have some issues, so i was looking forward to new talents, but they managed to make it worse... this is first time since wrath im thinking about switching main if they keep them as it is...

[sam86]

I remember my feral having literally 2 points of wiggle room. 4 energy off the cost of mangle if I was the mangle bitch, and 1 second longer bash stun if we had an arms warrior.

didn't know that but love it
i remember that shamans never had a definite build for most dps too, they were so fluid as elemental
however I focused mainly on priest then paladin then way low rogue assassin, anything else u probably better than me even if i alt played for fun other classes (i loved frost DK tank)

[cparle87]

didn't know that but love it
i remember that shamans never had a definite build for most dps too, they were so fluid as elemental
however I focused mainly on priest then paladin then way low rogue assassin, anything else u probably better than me even if i alt played for fun other classes (i loved frost DK tank)

Rogues had some options. Whether you wanted to take the 5% parry and riposte talent for soloing, or skip those for dungeons. Some went deep enough into subtlety to get hemo then deep into combat. Some went just far enough into assassination to get cold blood, then either subtlety or assassin stuff.

But feral had nothing cool like that, sadly.

[Revamp Man]

My question, which I will raise to Blizz if I get in the beta is simple. Will the easier content in the game be balanced for people with very poor builds? Because the game will allow for very poor builds. Which means the world content will be even less challenging than it is now. They tend to balance certain things for the lowest common denominator however with this change they are expanding the range by an impressive amount.

It depends on the gap between worst and best just like it does now

The absolute worst builds are still functioning to an extent so the worst case I see is more "suggested players: 3" quests because world content has not been challenging for a while and gear lessens any existing challenges

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Ya know 4 pages in and I think some people are confusing "viable" with "the best chosen by the top"

[Celement]

To be fair, i loaded a freinds account - she had 4 max level and modestly geared toons. 3/4 were the "top" covenants. She doesnt even know what icyveins is and chose them because she thought they suited the spec best, or liked the ability the most. We know WHAT people picked - we have absolutely no data at all on WHY they chose it.

I do absolutely agree MANY people will just do what a guide tells them, or what their friend tells them (after the friend checks a guide). I just think hardcore fans really struggle to understand they are a tiny minority, and very few people follow guides and forums and discords and twitter etc etc etc like we do.

I mean don't take this the wrong way... but when specs average out to 80% with the outliner being specs that gain next to nothing from covenants (I think it was disc?) I am just gonna call it what it is.

Coping.

WoW has never beyond maybe the first few months and I'm going to be honest even then a game that fostered a sense of uniqueness. If it comes to being " special" or useful useful wins out even among players that wont do lfr due to its skill level.

Hell players rigidly follow the meta that daily quests run talents that only make sense in group content. I am just sick of broken systems being put in to cater to this near nonexistent group.

The most customizable aspect of this new talent system is players getting annoyed they will be doing less damage because classes with interupts as a baseline are going to be assigned to deal with every mechanic as it's a dps loss to make classes spec into it...

[arkanon]

I mean don't take this the wrong way... but when specs average out to 80% with the outliner being specs that gain next to nothing from covenants (I think it was disc?) I am just gonna call it what it is.

Coping.

WoW has never beyond maybe the first few months and I'm going to be honest even then a game that fostered a sense of uniqueness. If it comes to being " special" or useful useful wins out even among players that wont do lfr due to its skill level.

Hell players rigidly follow the meta that daily quests run talents that only make sense in group content. I am just sick of broken systems being put in to cater to this near nonexistent group.

The most customizable aspect of this new talent system is players getting annoyed they will be doing less damage because classes with interupts as a baseline are going to be assigned to deal with every mechanic as it's a dps loss to make classes spec into it...

Coping? Coping with what? Who's coping? Calling it whatever you want is fine but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's just word salad.

[Celement]

Coping? Coping with what? Who's coping? Calling it whatever you want is fine but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It's just word salad.

It kinda is I will fix it later lotta auto fill from my phone in that.

[arkanon]

It kinda is I will fix it later lotta auto fill from my phone in that.

Happy to discuss things, just honestly not sure what your point is. Will check back later!