The hate towards some of the devs

[MoanaLisa]

Oh praise be, he's discreet, we can't blame him for anything then.

We could but we don't. That's not how it works.

[A Chozo]

We could but we don't. That's not how it works.

It works well enough across all forums when

- Danuser is blamed for the whole story's quality (which was always this bad), instead of his whole team;
- Ion is blamed for the game's quality, instead of he and his team - with the Producer never being mentioned;

I'm just saying that we are tremendously ignorant of how they develop the game, incessantly blaming whoever puts the face on a youtube video and even making shit up to criticize the game. If people blame Ion, they should also blame John. Or even better, stop antagonizing individual game devs unless they are Afrasiabish. The finger pointing is wrong and ignorant.

[Swnem]

You like to pull numbers out of your ass, the current number going around for 2022 is 4.8 million current subs, you dont have evidence stating WoW subs have dropped even below 4 million, let alone done to 1 million or less.

I know that it is in your interest to ignore the last 6 years of game and be stuck in time. It sounds exactly like what you'd like. Sadly for you, your numbers are far outdated.

[kenn9530]

I know that it is in your interest to ignore the last 6 years of game and be stuck in time. It sounds exactly like what you'd like. Sadly for you, your numbers are far outdated.

You are posting incorrect information, i have not played the game since before the end of castle nathria but you dont have to spew total nonsense because you dont like something, you dont have 1 single piece of data to prove the WoW subs are below 1 million because blizzard dont give out that information, the MAUs currently are similar to levels 6 years ago, the games population rises and falls with new expansions and content.

[Relapses]

Reading through this thread was a mistake. This community is collectively stuck in the year 2008 and it's fucking pathetic.

[Swnem]

You are posting incorrect information, i have not played the game since before the end of castle nathria but you dont have to spew total nonsense because you dont like something, you dont have 1 single piece of data to prove the WoW subs are below 1 million because blizzard dont give out that information, the MAUs currently are similar to levels 6 years ago, the games population rises and falls with new expansions and content.

I didn't say below, i said around. It's 1.1m live and 400k-ish classic according to estimates. The armory also shows the dwindling number of players. You can go check Bellular's videos for that.
YOU in fact have zero data that is not 6 or more years old. Completely not representative anymore. Time doesn't stop just cause Blizzard doesn't want to show dwindling numbers anymore. Blizzard themselves did report the loss of MAU's as well, not that you notice.
I get it, you want to do the white knight routine cause you feel very offended when someone criticises your favorite game team. But, i am tired of that dance. Hide your head in the sand if you want. You have derailed this into a numbers argument as you often do, when we don't need to cause it's obvious to anyone that plays the game that the population dropped substantially. I am not willing to debate something that is undeniable.
I want to talk about the why and how to fix it and that is what this thread is about.
If you want to bury your head in the sand, please feel free, but i will ignore you. I don't have time to debate established fact with you. Try someone else with more time to waste.

[Stormwolf64]

I was skipping the some of my favourite streamers during the night and I just couldn't believe some of the comments towards the devs, they are trying there best to get the game right, then theres the personal attacks towards some of the devs it's not on they don't deserve these kind of comments, they need to grow up, one day the Internet will change for the better and find these keyboard warriors and take action and to be honest I hope i'm around to see it happen

Some devs are shit. Some forcefeed political ideals and alienate their primary fans and call their fans all kinds of stuff just for even putting a questionmark on the situation.

Some devs just dont do anything original.

Some devs sellout to a big company or EGS and a should it be a finnancial failure then that is it. All gone.

Some devs make a untruthful presentation of their game so that when you buy, it can look and/or play radically different than what they showed. Steam refund is good for this.

Just some examples, so dont elevate devs to some angel like status just because you like their games. They are people like you and me, and can certainly be cunts.

[Woggmer]

It works well enough across all forums when

- Danuser is blamed for the whole story's quality (which was always this bad), instead of his whole team;
- Ion is blamed for the game's quality, instead of he and his team - with the Producer never being mentioned;

I'm just saying that we are tremendously ignorant of how they develop the game, incessantly blaming whoever puts the face on a youtube video and even making shit up to criticize the game. If people blame Ion, they should also blame John. Or even better, stop antagonizing individual game devs unless they are Afrasiabish. The finger pointing is wrong and ignorant.

This. I've made cases that maybe Shadowland's story wasn't entirely Danuser's fault. The only thing he's been guilty of (to me at least) was the weird shipping between Nathanos and Sylvanas and trying to redeem her.. but I don't think he was directly responsible for having the game go into the Shadowlands and deal with the Jailer. Which is something I think only Afrasiabi could've come up with since he might've had all this planned since Legion, making Sylvanas the Warchief, Helya's involvement, the whole Vol'jin being tricked by other forces... It's that when Afrasiabi left, all the problems and changes he made were pushed on to Danuser's responsibility and took the full force of the backlash.

Again, that's just my theory.

The whole point I'm making is what you've clarified, you can blame some things wrong with the game on certain individuals, but you can't blame the entire thing on those individuals. They could've had a great idea, but someone within the team might've said "No, I don't like that, what if instead..." because there were clearly ideas they wanted to try in the alpha/beta, but didn't follow through because of someone else's feedback.

[Askyl]

It is a sad trend, where people hate for no reason.

SL has a lot to hate, but most of the haters are showing their irrationallity. They will find a reason to hate no matter what, even if they tailor the game for them.

I think it is time to stop ignoring them, then they will go away.

This expansion is bringing some of the core issues to the surface and working on them right away. Its the first time that we can be optimistic ever since Legion... So fuck the haters, let´s be positive and optimistic. If it turns out to suck again, don´t play it, get a life instead

It's not just a trend but how humans.. just are... Look back on forums before Peter Jacksons LOTR trilogy was released (and shortly after) you'll see so much hate towards the project.

Almost identical to the hate towards the new Amazon LOTR-series. Wah wah woman! Wah wah LOREBREAKING, wah wah THAT ACTOR??? etc.

It's humanity and internet is an easy access platform to spread stupid hate.

[kenn9530]

I didn't say below, i said around. It's 1.1m live and 400k-ish classic according to estimates. The armory also shows the dwindling number of players. You can go check Bellular's videos for that.
YOU in fact have zero data that is not 6 or more years old. Completely not representative anymore. Time doesn't stop just cause Blizzard doesn't want to show dwindling numbers anymore. Blizzard themselves did report the loss of MAU's as well, not that you notice.
I get it, you want to do the white knight routine cause you feel very offended when someone criticises your favorite game team. But, i am tired of that dance. Hide your head in the sand if you want. You have derailed this into a numbers argument as you often do, when we don't need to cause it's obvious to anyone that plays the game that the population dropped substantially. I am not willing to debate something that is undeniable.
I want to talk about the why and how to fix it and that is what this thread is about.
If you want to bury your head in the sand, please feel free, but i will ignore you. I don't have time to debate established fact with you. Try someone else with more time to waste.

If you spent 2 seconds looking up information it states the 2022 playerbase is around 4.8 million, nothing you have backs you up about anything you say whatsoever, the thread isnt about fixing anything its about naive ppl complaining and blaming the devs for everything when most of the time it has nothing to do with them.

Enjoy being wrong and spreading BS information.

[Diaphin]

Some devs are shit. Some forcefeed political ideals and alienate their primary fans and call their fans all kinds of stuff just for even putting a questionmark on the situation.

I mean, since Gamergate it is well known that a significant portion of gamers hold abhorent and borderline-fascist ideas, so devs should have the right to distance themselves from people they consider morally objectionable. Also, one of the cornerstones in a democratic society is artistic freedom, so devs have the right to include whatever political ideals into their art, its not their fault that seemingly nobody on the other side is capable or willing to enter creative fields.

[Stormwolf64]

I mean, since Gamergate it is well known that a significant portion of gamers hold abhorent and borderline-fascist ideas, so devs should have the right to distance themselves from people they consider morally objectionable. Also, one of the cornerstones in a democratic society is artistic freedom, so devs have the right to include whatever political ideals into their art, its not their fault that seemingly nobody on the other side is capable or willing to enter creative fields.

What the hell are you even talking about? Get politics out of games and the world will be a lot calmer for it

[Celement]

I mean, since Gamergate it is well known that a significant portion of gamers hold abhorent and borderline-fascist ideas, so devs should have the right to distance themselves from people they consider morally objectionable. Also, one of the cornerstones in a democratic society is artistic freedom, so devs have the right to include whatever political ideals into their art, its not their fault that seemingly nobody on the other side is capable or willing to enter creative fields.

I mean its always been this way. People don't act the way you want them to because they agree with you but rather there are more powerful forces brow beating them into compliance.

Your example was when things became so absurd a moment of honesty broke through. Never ever assume the people silenced have faded that they now agree with you. They are simply waiting till the fade passes and they return back to their old rythm.

History is a circle.

[TheRevenantHero]

The current devs deserve every piece of hate. Ever since BfA they have been doing nothing but shoveling shit on top of the community. Absolutely terrible mechanics in both BfA and Shadowlands. No consistency with the lore AT ALL anymore. Claiming to listen to player feedback but then disregarding all of it when the time comes.

The current devs are total fucking garbage and I feel no sympathy for them at all.

[wushootaki]

Square Enix is more bad than good.

How many of their games totally flop? There has been what? 2 this year alone?

They're basically the Final Fantasy company at this point and those are not all hits either.

I wouldn't say they're a good example of a well run company

Nintendo is legitimately one of the only big well-run gaming companies. No scandals, no issues, and instead of firing people when profit margins weren't doing well, upper management took paycuts to keep everyone on payroll. They could also operate at a loss for ~20 years and still be in business. That's not to say they don't make their own share of mistakes though.

[Drusin]

Nintendo is legitimately one of the only big well-run gaming companies. No scandals, no issues

You sure?

https://www.looper.com/252281/the-sh...e-of-nintendo/
https://www.ign.com/articles/nintend...plaints-report

Did you mean "no sex related scandals"?

[Celement]

You got some secret data about player numbers we don't know about? I'd legit love to see it.

You can see active characters and while alts muddy it a lot even assuming every recorded character is a player they have taken a beaten.

[Relapses]

You can see active characters and while alts muddy it a lot even assuming every recorded character is a player they have taken a beaten.

That's a more complicated way of saying, "the numbers aren't real but my feelings are."

[Celement]

That's a more complicated way of saying, "the numbers aren't real but my feelings are."

I mean even if you take every character played in the past 90 days just characters assuming a 1 to 1 per player they are still taking a beating.

When you account for the fact half are likely from the same account you can see why they are rushing dragon flight and cutting corners with content..

I enjoy wow I want it to do well but its not in a good spot.

[Relapses]

I mean even if you take every character played in the past 90 days just characters assuming a 1 to 1 per player they are still taking a beating.

When you account for the fact half are likely from the same account you can see why they are rushing dragon flight and cutting corners with content..

I enjoy wow I want it to do well but its not in a good spot.

Okay, none of that makes it okay to insist on using imaginary numbers to support an argument.