Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Kallisto]

well, that's wrong and evil as well. That's what enables imperialist cunts like Putin to do as they please and then before you know it, he's on your doorstep.

Also the way you phrase that makes it seem like this Ukraine crisis isn't a *huge* tragedy where thousands are being raped and killed by the day but merely a novel flavor of the year spectacle for the West. And more importantly, it means those billions in dollars being invested into Ukraine by America is not a big deal either.

The world defence spending is roughly $2 trillion. Of which the US last year spent $0.9 trillion. Nearly half of the world's defence spending. The amount that's gone to Ukraine for weapons in US budget is next to nothing.

[Ripster42]

The world defence spending is roughly $2 trillion. Of which the US last year spent $0.9 trillion. Nearly half of the world's defence spending. The amount that's gone to Ukraine for weapons in US budget is next to nothing.

It's not next to nothing, but it's not exactly expensive for what it does. To be cynical, we're not going to be paying for ukraine's medical costs from this war for the next 40 years, while inflicting those costs on russia, along with a serious degradation in their existing military stock piles. It'd be a bit ironic though, if this did for russia what @Skroe was always joshing them for: force them to get rid of all their old crap and actually modernize. Probably not though.

[YUPPIE]

Russia has said multiple times they would have no choice but to use nukes if forced into a complete societal collapse through sanctions.

With that threat in mind, are we actually enforcing any meaningful sanctions at all? The ruble is still going strong, and a report stated more people bought Russian oil than ever since they waged war on Ukraine this year, China has also pledged unwavering faith to Russia.

It feels like sanctions for how much they’re mentioned are useless and all talk.

[Kaleredar]

force them to get rid of all their old crap and actually modernize. Probably not though.

Well, them being actively engaged in a war while their economy collapses, the rest of the world shuts them off and qualified individuals flee their country probably isn't good for "modernizing."

[Kallisto]

It's not next to nothing, but it's not exactly expensive for what it does. To be cynical, we're not going to be paying for ukraine's medical costs from this war for the next 40 years, while inflicting those costs on russia, along with a serious degradation in their existing military stock piles. It'd be a bit ironic though, if this did for russia what @Skroe was always joshing them for: force them to get rid of all their old crap and actually modernize. Probably not though.

Kind of hard to do when you have a brain drain, an economic collapse and no access to the latest technology to be able to modernize.

[Delekii]

Russia has released a giant eclectic list of people who are banned from going to Russia, including state politicians, journalists, business people, and anyone else who ties their shoelaces funny.

My overwhelming thought on hearing this is:
Who in the fuck would ever want to visit Russia?

[YUPPIE]

My overwhelming thought on hearing this is:
Who in the fuck would ever want to visit Russia?

tourists exploring the world

[Kallisto]

Russia has released a giant eclectic list of people who are banned from going to Russia, including state politicians, journalists, business people, and anyone else who ties their shoelaces funny.

My overwhelming thought on hearing this is:
Who in the fuck would ever want to visit Russia?

Sochi is actually very touristy. Moscow and St Petersburg are very historic. Though I certainly wouldn't want to visit the nation though. As a transgender woman, they'd likely kill me as soon as I step off the plane during the best of times.

[Ulmita]

Russia has said multiple times they would have no choice but to use nukes if forced into a complete societal collapse through sanctions.

With that threat in mind, are we actually enforcing any meaningful sanctions at all? The ruble is still going strong, and a report stated more people bought Russian oil than ever since they waged war on Ukraine this year, China has also pledged unwavering faith to Russia.

It feels like sanctions for how much they’re mentioned are useless and all talk.

For sanctions to be meaningful, we need at least the majority of world to be in the same page. Right now, something like 15% of world's population is sanctioning Russia.

Europe currently has some of the world's highest energy prices, and India / China keeps buying Russia oil and gas dirt cheap (meaning that they can produce cheaper than we can).

I am not sure why we keep insisting on something that not only doesn't work, but it does more harm to us than them.

[Corvus]

Russia appears to have lost another ship - video from a Bayraktar released by Ukraine shows what appears to be 2 anti-ship missiles hitting what they say is the Russian rescue tug Vasily Behk while it was transporting ammunition, supplies and personnel to Snake Island.

The Russians have been taking to strapping Tor missile launchers to the back of their ships for air defense but it appears to have failed.

This was a big tug, not a small one as well.

[Shrouded]

Russia appears to have lost another ship - video from a Bayraktar released by Ukraine shows what appears to be 2 anti-ship missiles hitting what they say is the Russian rescue tug Vasily Behk while it was transporting ammunition, supplies and personnel to Snake Island.

The Russians have been taking to strapping Tor missile launchers to the back of their ships for air defense but it appears to have failed.

This was a big tug, not a small one as well.

Good news, the glorious Russian operation to resupply the Moscow succeeded?

[Slant]

Sochi is actually very touristy. Moscow and St Petersburg are very historic. Though I certainly wouldn't want to visit the nation though. As a transgender woman, they'd likely kill me as soon as I step off the plane during the best of times.

Come to Germany. We don't care.

- - - Updated - - -

For sanctions to be meaningful, we need at least the majority of world to be in the same page. Right now, something like 15% of world's population is sanctioning Russia.

Europe currently has some of the world's highest energy prices, and India / China keeps buying Russia oil and gas dirt cheap (meaning that they can produce cheaper than we can).

I am not sure why we keep insisting on something that not only doesn't work, but it does more harm to us than them.

Because sometimes you need to do what is right.

[YUPPIE]

For sanctions to be meaningful, we need at least the majority of world to be in the same page. Right now, something like 15% of world's population is sanctioning Russia.

Europe currently has some of the world's highest energy prices, and India / China keeps buying Russia oil and gas dirt cheap (meaning that they can produce cheaper than we can).

I am not sure why we keep insisting on something that not only doesn't work, but it does more harm to us than them.

if sanctions are ineffective, Putin will win no doubt. What people are betting on is him eventually losing bodies to fight, but he's mass conscripting people from the world's impovershed or developing nations and brainwashing kidnapped Ukrainians where his own soldiers fall short.

[PhaelixWW]

CNN: Ukraine's bid to join EU gets major boost as executive backs candidacy

Ukraine's bid to join the European Union received a major boost on Friday morning, after the bloc's executive said it believed the country should be formally considered for candidate status in the wake of Russia's invasion.

Speaking in Brussels, the European Commission's President Ursula von der Leyen said the Commission recommends "that Ukraine is given candidate status. This is of course on the understanding that the country will carry out a number of further reforms."

"In the view of the Commission, Ukraine has clearly demonstrated the country's aspiration and the country's determination to live up to European values and standards."

Leaders of the 27 EU member states will now meet for a summit next week to discuss the Commission's opinion. Even if the member states agree that Ukraine should be a candidate nation -- which is far from certain -- the process to join the EU is complicated and takes, on average, just under five years to complete, according to the think tank, UK in a Changing Europe.

Von der Leyen ended her statement by saying: "We all know that Ukrainians are ready to die for the European perspective. We want them to live with us the European dream."

During a joint press conference in Kyiv on Thursday with the EU's main three political leaders, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, French President Emmanuel Macron and Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Russia's attack on his country amounted to an attack on all of Europe.

He added that the best way to demonstrate "our common and strong position" is by supporting Ukrainian integration into the EU, adding that its status as a candidate for EU membership "can amplify freedom in Europe historically and become one of the key European decisions of the first third of the 21st century."

Zelensky said Ukraine was ready to work to become a full EU member: "We understand that that the path to the European Union is really a path and it is not one step. But this path must begin, and we are ready to work so that our state is transformed into a full member of the European Union and Ukrainians have already earned the right to embark on this path."

Macron later said that the possible granting of EU candidate status to Ukraine was a result of Russia's invasion. He was speaking in an interview with CNN affiliate BFMTV Friday on board a train leaving Ukraine.

"Ukraine normally should not be a candidate," he said following his visit to Kyiv, "We're doing it because of the war and because we think it's good.

"It's a sign of hope, it's a message for Ukraine to say that they are in the European family," he said.

While Macron said most of Western Europe was supportive of the plan, "We have countries that are more reticent," he said.
The French leader added that the question of Ukraine's candidacy for the EU will be decided at the European Council summit next Thursday and Friday.

"The path is long to join the EU," he added.

He also said that Moldova can also become a candidate for EU accession. The French President visited the eastern European country on Wednesday as part of a two-day trip to Moldova and Romania before his unannounced trip to Ukraine.

What happens next?
Ukraine will now work to meet the Copenhagen Criteria, an opaque trio of requirements that the EU must be satisfied a candidate state has met in order to enter the proper accession negotiations. They focus on whether or not that country has a functioning free-market economy, whether the country's institutions are fit to uphold European values such as human rights and the EU's interpretation of the rule of law and whether the country has a functioning, inclusive democracy.

There are also real concerns that Ukraine is a long way from meeting the Copenhagen Criteria any time soon. According to Transparency International's 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index, Ukraine is 122nd on its list of 180 countries. For comparison, Russia sits in 136th place.

Once the country is deemed to have met this criteria, it can begin the EU's 35 chapters of negotiation, the final three of which return to some areas of the Copenhagen Criteria.

Then, when the leaders of the EU member states have agreed, it must then be ratified in the EU Parliament and by the legislative branches of each member state's government.

[YUPPIE]

yes, when considering Ukraine for joining the EU or NATO or whatever, we have to remember how corrupt they are as a state. Zelenksy might seem like an alright guy, but he wasn't spotless. and considering how bad those before him came, if this is a democracy, who knows what the next guy in line will be like if Ukraine comes out of all this well?

The fear of investing so much money and trust into a state that might turn on you if they emerge the victor is a real concern

[Flarelaine]

Well, them being actively engaged in a war while their economy collapses, the rest of the world shuts them off and qualified individuals flee their country probably isn't good for "modernizing."

It helps a lot with getting rid of the old stuff, though. Just the other day I read Russia lost ~25% of all their tanks, not just what they sent to Ukraine.

[PhaelixWW]

It helps a lot with getting rid of the old stuff, though. Just the other day I read Russia lost ~25% of all their tanks, not just what they sent to Ukraine.

And it's not like they sent all their crappy tanks in first.

[Iphie]

It helps a lot with getting rid of the old stuff, though. Just the other day I read Russia lost ~25% of all their tanks, not just what they sent to Ukraine.

25% of ALL tanks is probably exaggerating as they had 12000 or so in storage. Then again, if that is meant to include those then it might be AFTER inventory to see which still run. (spoiler, a LOT of those are just rustbuckets.)

But if the source is English then I wouldn't mind a link?

[PhaelixWW]

25% of ALL tanks is probably exaggerating as they had 12000 or so in storage. Then again, if that is meant to include those then it might be AFTER inventory to see which still run. (spoiler, a LOT of those are just rustbuckets.)

But if the source is English then I wouldn't mind a link?

Does the US DoD count?

From General Mark Milley:

So the Russians are just doing mass fires without necessarily achieving military affect, shall we say. The Ukrainians on the other hand are using much better artillery techniques and they're having pretty good effect on the Russians.

The Russians have lost probably somewhere in the tune of 20 to 30 percent of their armored force. That's significant. That's huge. So the Ukrainians are fighting a very effective fight tactically with both fires and maneuver. And that's significant.

[Iphie]

Does the US DoD count?

From General Mark Milley:

Yep, thanks!