2023-2024 NBA Thread

[PhaelixWW]

Can't win at this stage with 18 fucking turnovers. Inexcusable.

Celtics will be back in Boston for their last shot, but if we keep turning it over like we have this series, and these playoffs, then you are just not going to win.

Oh, damn... statmuse be throwing shade...




(Second is LeBron James with 94 in 2018 in one fewer games played, so...)

[xskarma]

Mavs just traded for Christian Wood with their late 1st and a whole bunch of expiring contracts.

He's going to help them be more balanced cause he does what their current Cs do combined, but his defense has not been something he is known for, so you have to wonder if he'll hold up with that in the playoffs when they really need him to.

Other downside is that he'll be in a contract year, so if he works out, great, but then you are going to have to pay him or lose him.


Certainly a good trade for the Mavs though, you don't get his caliber player at whatever spot they were in the draft, at least not immediately.

[ProphetFlume]

BRB going AFK from warriors fans


First time I saw the score it was 2-12, when I started watching it was 18-22, and then it turned into an exhibition game. Think rest caught up or just outplayed?

[PhaelixWW]

Well, Curry should finally get his FMVP to round out his career checklist. The people who continued to claim that Curry wasn't clutch in the Finals will now have absolutely no argument left.

[ProphetFlume]

Well, Curry should finally get his FMVP to round out his career checklist. The people who continued to claim that Curry wasn't clutch in the Finals will now have absolutely no argument left.

Fair is fair, he showed up in a way he previously hadn't. I used to dog on Lebron the same way until he started fulfilling all that potential he had in the finals.

[PhaelixWW]

538's predictive model can officially suck it.

[MCMLXXXII]

Shame there won't be a seventh game. I still need two hours of closeups of Curry chewing on his mouthpiece.

[xskarma]

538's predictive model can officially suck it.

Gratz. Better team won in the end.


There's going to be a contingent of salty Celtics fans demanding massive changes, trading players and changes to the coaching staff, and bla bla bla, like after any disappointing loss, but they are fucking lunatics. This season was an amazing success, given that this was supposed to be a transition year with the Celtics just getting under the tax and setting up the roster to compete in the future, while still doing enough now.

We are clearly ahead of schedule there.

The trouble is that you have to wonder what a better version of this roster looks like. The only bench player that showed up for the Finals was Derrick White, occasionally, but everyone else was just the worst version of themselves for the most part. Credit the Warriors there for doing their homework and being able to attack the weaknesses, but it becomes a question of figuring out what you need on the bench in the future.

White proved himself. Grant Williams fit his role, but lost steam as the playoffs progressed. They also have to pay him this offseason, so what kind of contract do you give him? He'll want to be paid based on his best (Game 7 against the Bucks) but the more realistic value of him is found in the Miami and GSW series, where he was far more pedestrian and less sharp.

The rest of the bench is basically just Theis, who has his role on the team but is overpaid, probably, and Payton Pritchard, who showed that he is what he is at this point, a feisty but small shooter who can impact games a little when his shot is on, but who becomes a liability when it is not. The only other player worth mentioning is Aaron Nesmith, who has been pressed into action here and there with players out but is just too inconsistent still to get any kind of significant minutes.

So that's 9 players, leaving 6 spots for improvements to the bench and further development of young guys (which you always need). We'll see what they do with those spots and Theis and Grant Williams.

I think the danger is to say "Run it back and concentrate on making the offense as in depth and flowing as the defense was" but I think that probably is the path where you stagnate and perhaps miss the chance to do more.

What they need (what basically everyone needs) is a bench player with some size who can shoot the 3 reliably. With some kind of miracle development Aaron Nesmith could be that guy, but then you'd need someone to replace his defensive-energy-bunny-off-the-bench role. And honestly I want to be a Nesmith believer, but so far he's not even shown he can have solid regular season contibution, let alone being a piece of the puzzle in the playoffs.



Draft is up next, in just about a week, then Free Agency in the first week of July and then Summer League from around the weekend of the 9th of July I think. NBA schedule just keeps on rolling for the next few weeks, even if the season is only now officially over.

[PhaelixWW]

There's going to be a contingent of salty Celtics fans demanding massive changes, trading players and changes to the coaching staff, and bla bla bla, like after any disappointing loss, but they are fucking lunatics. This season was an amazing success, given that this was supposed to be a transition year with the Celtics just getting under the tax and setting up the roster to compete in the future, while still doing enough now.

We are clearly ahead of schedule there.

The Celtics definitely should have a bright future, yes. I mean, there's always some salty fans, but I'd be surprised if they amount to any significant voice this time around.

The trouble is that you have to wonder what a better version of this roster looks like. The only bench player that showed up for the Finals was Derrick White, occasionally, but everyone else was just the worst version of themselves for the most part. Credit the Warriors there for doing their homework and being able to attack the weaknesses, but it becomes a question of figuring out what you need on the bench in the future.

Yeah, a lot of that just comes down to the experience of the Warriors. They often treat the games like a boxing match, where they let the opponent take a big early punch, weather the storm, then counterpunch once they've made their in-game adjustments. That's why the Warriors were so good in the 3rd quarter this season and came back from double-digit deficits so often. The experienced core knew not to get rattled by being down in a game or a series, and the younger players would take their cues from their older teammates.

That's a tough thing for a mostly younger team to combat, but the Celtics did a great job this postseason altogether, and that experience will just accumulate. I don't know how long you can keep Horford around, but he can be an invaluable tool to pass along some of that knowledge. It was good to see Iggy come back to the Warriors for the same reason.

I'm a little bit sad we didn't really get to see the Warriors play their best basketball during these Finals. That's largely due to the Celtics defense, of course.

I also can't wait to see what the Warriors can do with Kuminga (who basically didn't even play in the Finals; 8 minutes of garbage time was about it) and Wiseman (who was out the whole season) next year. The two things the Warriors were really missing this year were athletic rim protection (Wiseman) and a strong small forward (Kuminga) to drive through the defense. Too often, the smaller Curry/Poole/Wiggins would just bounce off the defenders.

I mean, it wasn't all bad. Curry has a way of taking the contact and still making the trick shot; Poole doesn't have Curry's ball-handling skills, but is even faster; and Wiggins has had some decent success going up against even guys that are bigger than he is in the lane. But against some of the elite rim protectors? Ugh. Some size in the lane will be a nice addition.

The question will be whether or not the Warriors can continue to pay everybody to stick around. The organization has this wonderful habit of elevating/rehabilitating the the play of various role players who join the team, but that also means they're worth a higher pricetag once it comes time to renegotiate. Wiggins was phenomenal this season and especially in the postseason. He was my #2 for FMVP after Curry, largely due to his defense and timely drives.

[xskarma]

Wiggins was phenomenal this season and especially in the postseason. He was my #2 for FMVP after Curry, largely due to his defense and timely drives.

Wiggins did exactly what he was supposed to do to help the Warriors: play good defense on the wings of the opponent, take the openings in the defense when they are there to exploit. I don't think he did anything outside of his role though, but there's a lot of value in getting players who fill their role about as perfectly as they can.

The truth is though that Finals MVP ranks were Curry on 1 through at least 70 and then maybe you'd start thinking of other Warriors, like Wiggins. Wiggins wouldn't be half the player he is without Curry, especially on offense. Curry warps things so much, that you just can't help but admire it.

And honestly, none of this is putting Wiggins down or anything, he still had to do the things to fill his role, and he did it extremely well. But, Curry. lol

[PhaelixWW]

Wiggins did exactly what he was supposed to do to help the Warriors: play good defense on the wings of the opponent, take the openings in the defense when they are there to exploit. I don't think he did anything outside of his role though, but there's a lot of value in getting players who fill their role about as perfectly as they can.

The truth is though that Finals MVP ranks were Curry on 1 through at least 70 and then maybe you'd start thinking of other Warriors, like Wiggins. Wiggins wouldn't be half the player he is without Curry, especially on offense. Curry warps things so much, that you just can't help but admire it.

And honestly, none of this is putting Wiggins down or anything, he still had to do the things to fill his role, and he did it extremely well. But, Curry. lol

I didn't say it was a close #2, lol.

But defense wasn't really a significant part of Wiggins' game before he joined the Warriors. The role that he filled this season was actually a new one for him, and he did it spectacularly.

For example, in terms of FG%, Doncic was 42.9% against Utah and 46.2% against Phoenix, but only 36.7% against the Warriors with Wiggins as primary defender. Tatum was 45.6% against Brooklyn, 42.9% against Milwaukee, 46.2% against Miami... and 36.7% against the Warriors with Wiggins as primary defender.

As much as Curry's offense should be lauded as the driving force behind the championship, Wiggins' defensive impact shouldn't be overlooked, because it was huge. The series could easily have been different if Tatum hadn't been as stifled as he was by Wiggins.

People have been talking about the turnovers, but those turnovers were caused in large part by forcing the ball to move around. And sure, Tatum set a new record for turnovers in a postseason, but even though the Celtics had more turnovers per game against the Warriors than against BKN, MIL, and MIA, Tatum actually had fewer turnovers per game against the Warriors than the other three teams because the ball routinely had to find other outlets.

[xskarma]

lol Poor Charlotte Hornets. Lost their head coach before he was even officially announced.

(Kenny Atkinson staying with GSW as top assistant instead)

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With the draft coming up, and while playing a basketball GM game, I started to wonder about something: When is the last time a prominent draft prospect flamed out cause of issues where their heart wasn't in it/they lacked the passion to be pro basketball players?

Cause I can't recall anyone like that recently, when it wasn't uncommon back in the day. Are teams just better now at weeding out these prospects or is it just coincedence?

Or am I missing some obvious name?

Only players I could think of where it might apply is Ben Simmons and Marvin Bagley, but I don't think lack of heart was the issue with either, though probably neither really burned with passion either. I just don't think it was their biggest issue.

[PhaelixWW]

When is the last time a prominent draft prospect flamed out cause of issues where their heart wasn't in it/they lacked the passion to be pro basketball players?

Cause I can't recall anyone like that recently, when it wasn't uncommon back in the day. Are teams just better now at weeding out these prospects or is it just coincedence?

A couple of reasons:

1) Money. (Isn't it always?) Players now are getting so much more money relative to inflation that it's ridiculous. Michael Jordan made only $94m over 16 years (some ~$170m in today's money), and he got paid compared to his contemporaries. Larry Bird made $26m ($45m today) over 14 years. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar made $3m (~$6m today) in his final, highest-paid season, and substantially less than that before. Wilt the Stilt made a record-breaking (at the time) $250k ($1.75m today) a year for the final 5 years of his career. (For comparison: next year, the rookie minimum will pass $1m, and 10-year vet minimum will be almost $3m.)

And then there's Curry, who is scheduled to make $472m over 17 years (through 2026).

And it just gets worse the farther back you go. Players are obviously less likely to give up on their careers in the face of the amount of money to be made. And those salaries don't even begin to touch endorsement deals, which can surpass salary compensation. Jordan is worth $1.7b and LeBron just became a billionaire this year. NBA commentators love to throw out the "NBA stands for Never Broke Again!" line.


2) Somewhat tied to #1, the competition for spots in the NBA is notably more intense, given the amount of money being handed out these days. This competition bleeds into college and even the foreign leagues, so players are far more prepared for the "big time" now than they would have been some 40+ years ago. The system itself weeds out those players who aren't likely to be up for it before they even get to the draft, I'd imagine.

[xskarma]

Kyrie probably leaving the Nets after telling them he was going to stay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz1Jwyxd4tE

I hope he ends up on the Lakers, reunited with Bron, for the full circle.

[xskarma]

Man, it's REALLy disorienting going this deep in the post season and have the offseason just dropped on you a week later. I'm still processing what the Celtics did and we're basically already expected to be thinking of who we are going to trade for or add to the roster or draft (for some teams, Celtics don't have a 1st rounder).

And news about what OTHER teams are doing or want to do are starting to trickle out too.

I mentioned Kyrie above, but the Hornest want to trade Gordon Hayward + a first to some team to have the cap space to sign Mikal Bridges to a max, Knicks apparently want to shed salary to sign Brunson and there's rumors that PJ Tucker might not actually stay in Miami after he opted out.

Oh and the Draft is in just about 48 hours.

I'm trying to get my mind ready for the inevitable bombshells that are going to drop any day now about soem trades or other, involving the draft or not, but it's hard. >.<

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Well then. Turns out Michael Jordan, his Airness, the best basketball player of all time is an absolutely dreadful owner who doesn't give a single shit about winning a title or doing even enough to make a reasonable effort at it.


That story above that Hayward is being floated with a 1st rounder to make room for Mikal Bridges? Poppycock. The Hornets have full Bird rights on Bridges and can sign him to any deal they want or match any offer he gets. They'd even be able to stay under the luxury tax while keeping Hayward all season. This is just purely cause they are cheap.


You know where else they cheaped out? Dealing with Kenny Atkinson, or more accurately his coaching staff.

Turns out Atkinson was ready to sign until it became clear the Hornets were not willing to pay the previous staffs remaining 1 year contracts, and wanted Atkinson to keep them on board. They couldn;t work that incredibly easy problem out and Atkinson said "Guess not then" and returned to GSW.


And this is all with Jordan as the owner, someone who knows, or should know, exactly what it takes. Apparently Jordan's legendary competitive streak doesn't extend to the owner's box.

[PhaelixWW]

And this is all with Jordan as the owner, someone who knows, or should know, exactly what it takes. Apparently Jordan's legendary competitive streak doesn't extend to the owner's box.

Should we really be that surprised? Over the 18 years since the Bobcats were formed (only later applying to adopt the old Hornets franchise legacy), they've only made the playoffs 3 times and haven't made it past the first round. They've only had a winning record in 4 of those 18 years. Overall, they're 584/1443 (.405).

And yet the team makes money. Jordan bought 97% of the team for roughly $30m down, and it's now worth just shy of $1.6b.

So... yeah.

[MCMLXXXII]

So from a basketball point of view he's not doing well, from a business point of view:

[Northern Goblin]

The Hornets were clearly always a business venture for Jordan, if he wanted to build a legacy, he wouldn't have bought the Hornets. He did it for sentimental reasons after his college team.

Now if he'd gone all in on buying the Bulls, you'd be set on him trying to create another double threepeat dynasty. At this point, he's a savvy businessman, his competition is in making money, not winning trophies in a sport where his legacy is eternally secure.

[ProphetFlume]

In the game he cares about, he’s successful.

[xskarma]

So, Celtics twitter is having fun. The Knicks are trying to trade Evan Fournier, to free up cap space so they can sign Brunson in free agency. The Celtics did a sign and trade with the Knicks last year to bring Fournier to the Knicks, which gave the Celtics a 17M trade exception that features prominently in the Team's plans to bring in reinforcements in free agency next week.

So now the question Celtics twitter is struggling with is "Can Fournier be traded to the Celtics with the trade exception they created by trading him?" it appears to be highly complex in the minutae of the CBA and the NBA rule book as to if it is allowed or not.

And the only thing *I* have been asking myself while this played out over the last couple of hours is "why the hell would we want Fournier back?"

Sometimes people on twitter should ask themselves more if they SHOULD do a thing instead of asking themselves if they COULD.

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Durant is "considering his options for the future with the Nets" and Kyrie has given the team a list of teams he would consider being traded to.

So now the Nets have the choice between signing Kyrie to a max (which this is a ploy to get from KD & Kyrie) or losing all 3 of their star players in less than a calendar year.

I have an urge for popcorn right now and I don't even like popcorn.

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So, less than an hour till Draft starts. Who do you have going no. 1?

I know it's not going to be Chet Holmgren, but I hope it's Chet Holmgren just for people's heads to explode.

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It was Paolo Banchero at no. 1 to the Magic and Holmgren at 2 to the Thunder. Shame.