Classic Plus = Course Correction

[Kent088]

Classic Plus = A new, alternative course for WoW starting in the Vanilla era. This includes lore, gameplay, and administration, the inspiration for this idea from the widely successful Runescape approach.

ONE. THE RUNESCAPE APPROACH, IN SHORT

Runescape's most widely loved era by many of its players was in roughly 2007/8, an intermediate period between the early 00's classic Runescape and the more modern RS 3. In this iteration, the game was sort of a Star Wars Galaxies set in the fantasy world Jagex created, for the browser. This changed when Runescape decided to implement it's own "NGE", and copy many features of WoW and other MMO's. Finally, after a huge deal of bemoaning by the players, they implemented old school servers, where bug fixes are done and changes are made based on primarily player vote.

TWO. THE RUNESCAPE APPROACH, IN WOW

Begin with a Classic server. Implement bug fixes that have been implemented throughout the era of Classic Vanilla. Offer player votes for changes; Perfect RS' majority vote with a rating system with a value system: "Proposal A: Nerf Frostbolt by 20%. Select 1-10 how much you agree with this proposal. Suggest an alternative number if desired." Set changes to require a 7.5 average rating to implement. This sort of value system voting has been well studied in business and political science is one of a few optimal ways of handling mass voting. These proposals should be formulated PROPERLY, so that players do not skew their answers from their actual feelings on a proposal. Examples below:

IMPROPER Proposal

1. "Release Mount Hyjal as a new high-level open world zone, complete with two dungeons and a world boss." "Rate this proposal 1-10."

PROPER Proposal

1. "Release Mount Hyjal as a new high-level open world zone. (Levels 53-60)."
2. "Release two additional dungeons with the Mount Hyjal release."
3. "Release a world boss with Mount Hyjal."
"Rate these proposals 1-10."

Possible Results - Improper: 7.9, Results - Proper: 8.5, 6.9, 9

What these could suggest - Improper: Players want all these changes. Proper: Players want to see mount Hyjal but with an emphasis on the open-world, however they would likely prefer dungeons to no progression content at all.

So as we can see here, if I am a player who wants to see Mount Hyjal, but dislikes dungeons, in the first proposals I will possibly vote against, heavily. In the second, I can vote for 1 and 3, and its up to other players to counter or agree with me on the dungeons. This provides a more accurate match of where players' heads are.

Realistically, these votes should contain possibly 20 questions, centering on what the level ranges the new zones should be, what gear tiers they are, etc. A truly classic environment would not endlessly inflate gear scoring like mainstream WoW, which gets into another point.

THREE. PERMANENT LEVEL 60 CAP

Part of WoW's issue is this huge invalidation of previous content. All these development and game hours put into content for it to instantly become worthless overnight. This has been alleviated some by systems like Timewalking, or separating the profession schools, but why even chase your tail when you can relax the design process to just roll in new content as a part of old content, and vice versa?

Keep the cap at 60, but implement levels for talent points after that for new content where the "levels" are expanded. Here's an example scenario:

Historical Retail: Geared 60 > Outland Geared Level 62 > Level 70 > Geared Level 70

Result: Rush to 70, rush to latest raids.

Alternative: At level 60, one does new daily or Outland content, or becomes a defender of Azeroth, choosing to stay and focus on new objectives in existing content. These give experience for new talent points, up to an additional 10. Talent trees are updated to be more modern, but are ultimately the same size.

Six new raids released throughout the course of the TBC expansion: Two will be harder than Vanilla tiers - Black Temple(T4) and Sunwell(T5). The remaining four raids integrate with existing Tiers, ranging from T1-T3. Players can now choose to face C'Thun or Lady Vashj for their Tier 3 equivalent stats, though both raids will drop cosmetically different loot.

Alternative Two: At level 60, content is not released in expansions, but instead in patches. Each patch varies in size, but focus on incremental, qualitative changes to the game. Tier 4 is released as "Invasion of Outland" a new raid centered on storming Hellfire Citadel in the new single "Outland" Zone. Following Tier 4, a later patch releases an additional Tier 2 raid is released in Tanaris, focused on revisiting the Invasion of Hyjal through the Caverns of Time.

FOUR. EXPANSIONS ON NON-RAID, DUNGEON, OR PVP CONTENT

Separate combat levels from profession levels. Allow professions as an open world, solo way to get gear on par with pvp or pve'rs. The fine print here is that the top gear is always soulbound and incredibly arduous to make. It might be worthwhile to make a helmet and chest, raid for gloves, and pvp for boots, for example. Or you may choose to only interact with other players in small 2-3 person groups fighting world elites, roleplay, etc. Or you may choose to interact with players in massive 100 player raids consisting of multiple raid groups for large world events.

Professions should, simply put, do and have more. Make them alternative ways of playing just like in SWG, such as a bard profession where my combat level is five, but I spend all my time entertaining other players, or buffing them, engaging in tournaments, making me gold and awarding me items that can be used in my pursuit of other professions, or ultimately in gaining combat related items when I decide to do that content. If I have a "gig" in Felwood, I can pay other players to escort me from my large bank I've developed.

Combat professions should be expanded with more buffs, and debuffs. Alchemist or Engineer professions will even allow players to blend their professions with their combat level, in effect creating fully fleshed out Apothecary or Tinker classes.

FIVE. MORE REWARDS FOR OPEN WORLD PVP

Simply put, Open World PvP should be more rewarding. Give PvP rankings with dishonor and honor. Kill a level 10 as a 60? Gain dishonor. Choose to engage in FFA PvP and Attack your own factions settlements? Gain Dishonor. Defend a settlement from the other faction? Bonus Honor. BG's are fun and great, but they serve to push players into cities and afk, and after all this is the world of warcraft between the Horde and Alliance.

[Biomega]

Yes, let's put development resources behind an old, superseded iteration of the game instead of developing new improvements for the current and ongoing one.

Let's do that.

Let's just set money on fire.

[Flaks]

Agree with it all. WoW desperately needs to return to the "world" in world of warcraft. BfA was a great attempt at it with warmode and all of the rewards it entailed but I think it'd be even better if it was vanilla classic wow that enacted it because every expansion after just made the world small.

[kranur]

Sounds horrible lol.
Permanent level cap is retarded. Either power creeps to high or there's no increase in power making running new content pointless.

[Lochton]

Naw, too late for Classic+, you now have Vanilla Edited instead.

[XDurionX]

Those 3 people still playing classic surely don't justify sinking even more ressources into it. You got classic, and now you noticed yout din't want classic, but something that existed in your headcanon only.

[McNeil]

If it’s still the retail team working on it then they will just continue to fuck it up. If they can’t make retail better than why expect them to do a proper Classic+?

[SinR]

Sounds horrible lol.
Permanent level cap is retarded. Either power creeps to high or there's no increase in power making running new content pointless.

and yet OSRS has found a way to make it work.

[Relapses]

SoM is the closest thing to Classic+ you guys are ever going to get. Blizzard has no desire to develop two entirely different live versions of the same MMO.

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and yet OSRS has found a way to make it work.

OSRS is a much, much different MMO than WoW. Just because it works for one game doesn't mean it'll translate well for another.

[Kent088]

Biomega, Kranur,

There are more productive ways of getting your points across. Your responses are anyway already answered. Higher quality gear does come out, but a combination between that and additional talent points create the player power difference, which is much smaller. The concern that pouring time into old content is a waste is ridiculous considering it literally is near fully wasted right now under the current system.

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XDurionX, No I always wanted classic plus. Plus many players play classic if you consider Vanilla, TBC, and Now Wrath

[A Chozo]

I'm just glad that we live in a world where OP has zero say on the direction of Warcraft as a whole. Not that the current leads are exemplar but at least they don't propose this kind of stuff. Classic+? Hell no.

[Kent088]

I'm just glad that we live in a world where OP has zero say on the direction of Warcraft as a whole. Not that the current leads are exemplar but at least they don't propose this kind of stuff. Classic+? Hell no.

Again, more productive ways of responding. What I outlined above is really an expansion on the games core principles that would drive it to flesh out features already in game in a more meaningful and deeper way. So even if on paper they might not sound within the scope of current WoW, they are in line with what players already do and enjoy.

[Kithelle]

Again, more productive ways of responding. What I outlined above is really an expansion on the games core principles that would drive it to flesh out features already in game in a more meaningful and deeper way. So even if on paper they might not sound within the scope of current WoW, they are in line with what players already do and enjoy.

If you can't handle criticism then you shouldn't have made the thread (which is why I'm guessing you made a alt account), I for one also don't want them to waste resources on classic+. You proposal doesn't even mention fixing some of the worst things about vanilla/classic. I'm gladly awaiting Wrath classic and Dragonflight...we don't need a classic+

[Cayde69]

Yes, let's put development resources behind an old, superseded iteration of the game instead of developing new improvements for the current and ongoing one.

Let's do that.

Let's just set money on fire.

Classic is the only thing holding up wow subs at any given time, every single earnings call since classic has praised what it’s done for the monthly active users.

You can dislike this if you want but it’s true.

With that being said, they truly are two completely different mmos, with different audiences, and honestly the playerbase for both seem to be fairly even and retail has been getting really really bad looks even from the most die hard of retail lovers

[Biomega]

Classic is the only thing holding up wow subs at any given time

Even IF this is true (and we have almost no way to know for sure), Classic costs them very little money. This would. And it's almost guaranteed that the investment would in no way be reflected in profits.

[Cayde69]

Even IF this is true (and we have almost no way to know for sure), Classic costs them very little money. This would. And it's almost guaranteed that the investment would in no way be reflected in profits.

Wtf are you even saying? Classic is a sizeable chunk of warcrafts population, if not the majority (can’t tell for sure). If they release something that an expansion for these people, and they buy it, that literally no fucking different than releasing an expansion for retail.

And imho I bet it’s an even better idea, because I think retail players are more likely to try new content in classic than classic players are to try new retail content.

When classic released at first they said it almost tripled their sub counts. Obviously it has died down since that, but to say a classic expansion ‘isn’t worth the money’ is nothing short of stupid

[Khaza-R]

Even IF this is true (and we have almost no way to know for sure), Classic costs them very little money. This would. And it's almost guaranteed that the investment would in no way be reflected in profits.

Its obviously somewhat true. The launch of Classic in 2019 was one the only times Blizzard had increase in MAUs since 2016.

As to the prolonged success of Classic, no one has any clue. Irrespective of that, MS is about to take the reins in years time. Nothing really outlandish in thinking they might try to appeal to different markets by upkeeping Classic and Retail in various different ways. Nostalgia marketing in gaming is a lot more powerful than people give it credit.

[Soikona]

Sounds horrible lol.
Permanent level cap is retarded. Either power creeps to high or there's no increase in power making running new content pointless.

Hard disagree. ESO does this and all content is relevant in some form.

[hulkgor]

Haven't had a Classic+ in a while, but it's never long before another one pops.

And it's always nonsense.

[Cayde69]

Haven't had a Classic+ in a while, but it's never long before another one pops.

And it's always nonsense.

Tbh it only makes sense after wotlk, cata isn’t going to be a thing