Genuine Question: Why do mobile games need to be pay to win?

[Tommi]

Mobile gaming, which a lot of people here seem to hate for some reason, is the biggest gaming sector now. As has been said here, and rightly so, mobile gamers don't like to pay for stuff unfront, and don't mind having games as a service. You have whales in every game that offers a cash shop of some kind, this isn't limited to mobile games. How many mobile games have true pay to win? Cash shop shit kinda overblown, yes there are a few people who spent $10000+, but those are generally streamers doing it for views and shit, not the average gamer. Those whales keep the game aflot with new content, and they are defo less than 1%, if even reaching that.

Do I agree with loot boxes and the similar kind? Depends.
Does it reward player power? No, that should be banned.
Does it rewards cosmetic stuff only with no player power at all? Sure, whatever. I don't care if someone has a fancy transmog or skin.

for reference:

[Schmilblick]

Because people are paying.

[ParanoiD84]

Sharks are usually the ones that prey on others. Whales are just people with large full pockets.

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It may not be your thing. I purchased a handful of the final fantasy games, and rockstar games like GTA and Max Payne.

For a game like CoD: mobile, i spent so much time playing, I bought the battle pass, because it was i entertained enough and felt like they earned it.

I much prefer the battle pass/freemium over loot boxes/card packs. And i definitely prefer freemium over games being inundated with video ads.

Only ones i enjoyed where Kingdom Rush everything else was meh imo but i have not tried that many, i stick to pc and consoles but i can see why people enjoy it when they are away or on trains etc.

[Ghost of Cow]

Also, on this topic: I think people vastly overstate the importance of whales.

Of course you want to make your individual big spenders happy, but a handful of people spending $10,000 are going to be a drop in the bucket compared to thousands - or even millions - of people buying a 99 cent welcome bundle, or $2.50 on a new hat for a character, or whatever.

[BeepBoo]

Also, on this topic: I think people vastly overstate the importance of whales.

Of course you want to make your individual big spenders happy, but a handful of people spending $10,000 are going to be a drop in the bucket compared to thousands - or even millions - of people buying a 99 cent welcome bundle, or $2.50 on a new hat for a character, or whatever.

I recall seeing an article a while back when this shit was first starting about whales being ~70% of the profit. With it being and even larger part of the market and more socially acceptable to just dump ALL your disposable income into a fake scarcity good, I could see that % only having increased.

[Cthulhu 2020]

No there is not…

Plants vs Zombies and Angry Birds both made a ton of money even before they got microtransactions. Flappy Bird was what, $5? And made gross amounts of money. Back in the early days of the smart phone, there were numerous successful side scrolling zombie shooters. There were some fun and quality games for time wasting that made plenty of money. Of course they didn't make as much money as menu idlers, but they were far more fun. Most idlers, menu games, and so forth don't even offer the user a good gameplay experience, just the dopamine rush that hits when they do those gacha pulls.

I'm sure many on this forum will know Rich W Campbell, he's a gambling addict. He's admitted he is. He's spent tens of thousands of dollars on Genshin Impact characters, but never actually played the game. He would log in to pull for the characters, scream and cheer when he got what he wanted, then log off.




There's a lot of "Because it makes money" but I guess my question should have not been "Why do people say mobile games have to be pay to win/microtransaction,"

But instead I should have asked "Why should we as gamers tolerate these gambling simulators proliferating?"

[Aleksej89]

people desperately just want to win, it makes them feel less miserable because they tied their self worth to "winning".

so its easy to exploit those poor fools for all their cash by simply writing a colorful "victory" on a screen each time they pay a ton of cash.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This is insular, elitist BS. People are not dumb for enjoying themselves with mobile games than other forms of entertainment. These are hobbies and things people do with their free time. You are not entitled to any entertainment produced by others for any price other than what the owner of that media or entertainment decides it ought to cost.

If someone wants to spend on Legos (which are crazy expensive & worthless to me), Sideshow collectibles, or a mobile game- there is no great or inherent nobility to any of those things than the other.

How much of this is that the people are having fun, and how much of it is that developers know how to use people's psychology to give them a dopamine rush when they get what they want after paying $50? For one little dopamine hit? And yes, I suppose you could claim that it's giving them a "good time", but most developed countries in the world have decided that gambling needs to be illegal, if not HEAVILY regulated. These games are simply a dodge of proper gambling, because while they are definitely gambling, they don't fall under the strict definition of gambling.

[cocomen2]

Its easy way to get money from losers that are evil inside and want to be unfairly OP .... to abuse and mock these who not on their level of money in real life; Same goes for superheroes and ANIME, why do you think authors make main characters be a "chosen ones", "sexy devil that charms 99 females while doing nothing", or just walking on the streets and other characters losing their shit like "OMG OMG is mr stark and his sperm"; Its easy to sell, other side is to ask why is that people want to read a story while god like being MC with all his power and wealth best things he can do its beat shit out of local thugs... that has no chance against him, and then call him a brave hero, even if "hero" has no possible way to lose that fight, because mind set of most people is that of these same as thugs... that dream to abuse superpowers and to use it on normies.

Sad reality, and yes i was little bit sarcastic but only so that would be not boring to read.

[vian]

Because of the people who typically play them have zero attention span and retention.

Exploiting them by giving them the "option" to progress faster.

It's a nasty practice that should be out right banned.

[Evaddon]

They don't, its just the easiest market to monetize because a certain group of players with a certain mindset will shell out anything to stroke their egos and feel better about themselves..and being F2P often is an overall justification for this both from the company and the community (...which is odd in itself)

[Zalraki]

Companies tend to go for the easiest cash grab. It's just inherent greed that comes with the territory these days.

However, I can't completely blame them for it. They target the mobile gaming sector because well... that's where most of the weak-willed lemmings are these days. Billions of people who do nothing but look at their phones all day and never check credit cards receipts of any finances until it's too late. People who would actually pay money for some colored pixels on a tiny screen. They're just easy prey and companies know it.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

[Ghost of Cow]

Companies tend to go for the easiest cash grab. It's just inherent greed that comes with the territory these days.

However, I can't completely blame them for it. They target the mobile gaming sector because well... that's where most of the weak-willed lemmings are these days. Billions of people who do nothing but look at their phones all day and never check credit cards receipts of any finances until it's too late. People who would actually pay money for some colored pixels on a tiny screen. They're just easy prey and companies know it.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

Oh jeez, get a load of the big PC Gaming Master Race guy over here.

Actually like...the last 5 posts. Do you people listen to yourselves?

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How much of this is that the people are having fun, and how much of it is that developers know how to use people's psychology to give them a dopamine rush when they get what they want after paying $50? For one little dopamine hit? And yes, I suppose you could claim that it's giving them a "good time", but most developed countries in the world have decided that gambling needs to be illegal, if not HEAVILY regulated. These games are simply a dodge of proper gambling, because while they are definitely gambling, they don't fall under the strict definition of gambling.

You guys really have got to get over this thing about how mobile games are "using psychological tricks on us!!!"

They're selling you something, of course they're going to market it to the players, make it seem appealing, make you think you need to buy it now. That's marketing 101 for every product that exists in the history of ever.

But no, you repeat "psychological tricks!!" like the mobile games are using some secret sorcery that just magically takes the money from your wallet. And so many people parrot it, almost like it's right out of another youtube video....

[Talon8669]

I'm not specifically talking about a specific dumpster fire that recently launched. Every time someone complains about a big popular game being pay to win, or even having a giant cash shop of cosmetics, there's always a large group of people who says "Well that's just how it is, mobile games need to make money!"

But see, there are mobile games that are one time purchases that make tons of money.

So WHY is pay to win, or cash shop NECESSARY/EXPECTED of a mobile game?

The most immediate obvious answer is because that's how the east monetized their games in the early proliferation of smart phones. But I'm not asking a surface level "why". I'm asking a deep why.

Why can't the standard for mobile games be one time purchase games? Why does everyone make the excuse that if it's a mobile game, that justifies cash grabs?

And for the life of me, I can't think of a suitable response that isn't countered by something else.

"Well they need to make money!"
One time sale games make money.

"Because it's part of this country's culture!"
OK? I don't see why the rest of us need to be alright with what is effectively gambling but with no chance of getting your money back.

"If they don't monetize like this they'll lose money!"
Then stop making shitty menu based games with endless time sinks solely designed to suck money out of players, and make games people actually enjoy playing? If a game is good, it won't lose money.

Give me a GOOD justification for why we should simply be fine with such things. A game being a mobile game is not a good justification. Because as we know, predatory monetization has been wriggling its way into PC gaming for the last 10 years. So once most PC games have tons of microtransactions, what's going to be the excuse then? When "It's a mobile game bro," is no longer an excuse you can use .

I don't mind some few games having this. Back in the mid 2010's, these games were rare but the whales had their playgrounds and they played in them. My problem is how this sort of monetization model is proliferating into every console and every genre.

To be frank, a game being a mobile game is not proper justification, and yet so many act like it is.


Ultimately, I do realize that a mobile cash grab is a lot "safer" for the investors. Investors know these kinds of game will almost always make their money back because fools and their money are easily parted. Investors have seen the past of gaming, where some really bad games lose a lot of money when received poorly. Just look at D:I, it's one of the worst games in history and it made back all of the money spent on development on day 1. I suppose my real question here is, why are game consumers okay with this?

And for those of you who love capitalism/free market quackery, the entire concept is that if you make a better product than your competitors, you succeed, and if you make a shitty product, you fail. That's often the core tenet of the church of capitalism. So why are the capitalism bros okay with a system that turns that on its head?

In before some mouth breather goes "BET YOU'RE JUST POOR"
I'm not, and welcome to ignore

Mobile games do not need to be P2W; someone put that in very early on and gamers didn't freak the fuck out and now it's the normal. Truth is I would always rather pay for a game than have some F2P thing with time gates and paywalls. I simply just don't pay for that crap and so I don't play games. Now I haven't said much about mobile gaming over the years because I don't play on my phone, I don't like my phone for that, if I have the time to play a game I want to sit down on my console or PC and play. Phone is for porn and occasionally I call or text someone. That said after watching Diablo Immortal come out and seeing what could slide or has been trying to slide into console and PC gaming, I am completely against that shit now in any and all forms. I hope the US takes a hard stance soon and calls these games gambling and thus cripples them. I think you'll see Texas here in the states be the first one to call loot boxes and % chance drops on things you can pay cash for as gambling; after them I think it will sweep the union pretty quickly.

[Fencers]

How much of this is that the people are having fun, and how much of it is that developers know how to use people's psychology to give them a dopamine rush when they get what they want after paying $50?

Doesn't make a difference. If you get your kicks one way or another. That's all having a good time is anyway.

Your dopamine hit isn't any more special because you got it for $50 playing a mobile game than from $500 for a new pair of shoes.
These games are simply a dodge of proper gambling, because while they are definitely gambling, they don't fall under the strict definition of gambling.

Mobile games are regulated in various places. Gambling isn't illegal in most countries. It's illegal in some countries. And really that is the business of those nations. Saudi Arabia, Korea, the United Kingdom, Ghana, the US, etc; each legislation is no greater or lesser than the other morally.

[McNeil]

They don't need to be, but they know they can get away with it because mobile games in general will appeal to a huge audience who don't know any better about gaming.

[Ghost of Cow]

Doesn't make a difference. If you get your kicks one way or another. That's all having a good time is anyway.

I just love the level of pseudoscience being tossed around on this topic, too.

"You had fun? Oh really? How do you know it was fun and not just DOPAMINE from PSYCHOLOGICAL TRICKS?!"

[Weilyn]

I think it is truly because people have been conditioned to accept it over time. My wife hates video games, like legit hates them, hates when I play them, hates when my friends are over and we play them...but guess who has mean army on Clash Royal and guess who else has spent a few $100 over the years in small $5 increments? Yeah. So people were conditioned to accept it and it has a far greater audience than any PC Game/Console ever will. Does it make it ok? I don't think so.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think it is truly because people have been conditioned to accept it over time. My wife hates video games, like legit hates them, hates when I play them, hates when my friends are over and we play them...but guess who has mean army on Clash Royal and guess who else has spent a few $100 over the years in small $5 increments? Yeah. So people were conditioned to accept it and it has a far greater audience than any PC Game/Console ever will. Does it make it ok? I don't think so.

But just re-read this for a sec.

"A grown adult chose to spend a couple hundred dollars over the course of several years on something they enjoy."

And that's NOT ok with you?

[Very Tired]

Mobile games target demo is kids and adults with the mentality of kids, both of whom aren't exactly known for their money handling skills. Not to mention there's also ignorant people living in poorer countries where phones are likely the most powerful computers they'll ever lay their hands on and haven't really been exposed to non-exploitive games that we take for granted.

Basically it's a culture of abusing fools that has proven to work. A basically unregulated practice because I'm also willing to bet the old men governing over them only think of Pong and Pacman whenever someone mentions video games.