1. #2421
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    You don't even know what the hell you are talking about if you're mentioning crests instead of gems. Gems and Resonance from upgrading said gems ARE the power levels that come from slapping down more money. I'm tired of trying to explain this to someone who obviously does not play so I'll be done replying to you here.
    Funny you keep saying this when you don't seem to know why they're referencing crests.

  2. #2422
    Amazon should earn money.
    But Blizzard musn't.

    Youtubers/streamers decided that long time ago(nobody even compared Immortal to Lost Ark so far).

    Don't act like you have an opinion - you are nothing, but the voice these content creators.

  3. #2423
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Two issues... First, how long would it take a non-paying player to reach the X paragon level in which they can "kill things as fast as a player who paid and has already gotten to X paragon level"?

    Second, you mention gearing... we've seen that a paying player (using up to 10 crests per rift run) gains much more loot drops than a non-paying player. So then wouldn't the non-paying player always behind. And not just a little bit behind but an incredibly large delta difference?

    Maybe in PvE it's not as big of deal, but factor in PvP... that seems incredibly unfun unless DI specifically groups non-paying players with only other non-paying players and paying players can only play with other paying players. (And that even has issues for the later group)

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    Maybe, but a case could be made that D4 can be just as scummy as DI with MTX made to exploit it's playerbase beyond the initial upfront cost of the game.

    The issue is that gone are the days where a developer makes a game, maybe adds a 1~2 expansion packs, then moves on. Instead corporations have it in their minds to make everything a Games As A Service platform.

    Just take a look at Ubisoft's AC series of late: Tons of MTX left and right. From cosmetics to faster XP gains to maps for treasures to raw materials (so you don't have to farm for them).

    Yes, Blizzard did say that the MTX for D4 is centered around cosmetics and future expansions/DLC but what they didn't say is that the MTX for D4 would ONLY be for cosmetics and future expansions/DLC. As it stands, they could add in P2W elements and state that they never excluded such additions for the MTX shop for D4.

    All of this is basically due to how poorly Wyatt Chang (and Blizzard) has communicated. A lot less complaints would be here if Blizzard just came out and spoke truthy: Diablo Immortal is a P2W game and designed to maximize MTX returns as much as possible. Sure there's a "free" experience there but be warned that you are going to be incredibly disadvantaged left and right unless you pay up.
    Oh i totally agree with you. Thing is at this point fighting against it seems pointless. I rather just move to another game. I usually don't enjoy the grind loops involved in "free" games and luckily there are many games to be enjoyed out there.

    But of course i'd love a good D4, not filled with predatory stuff. Then again, at this point in time, i don't count on that at all.

  4. #2424
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Funny you keep saying this when you don't seem to know why they're referencing crests.
    Funny when I wager they don't know there are 2 kinds of crests in the game. (Technically 3 if we want to bring in the difference on the two epic quality crests).

  5. #2425
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Funny when I wager they don't know there are 2 kinds of crests in the game. (Technically 3 if we want to bring in the difference on the two epic quality crests).
    You have Crest and Eternal Crest. The free eternal crests only reward soulbound gems. The paid Eternal Crest can reward unbound gems that can be sold on the marketplace. This is why it was silly of you to get upset over me saying eternal crest instead of legendary gem. You can also craft legendary gems with runes that come from use a Crest which is another way a free player that plays a lot can potentially have more power then a person that plays a little and paid a little.

    But your argument would fall apart if you didn't deflect and trying to outright dismiss anything said because a person can't have played a game if they don't hold the same opinion of it as you. Strange, right? I'm curious though have you plaid the game to Hell 2+? Did you buy any power? Is the reason why you are so upset over having a bump in difficulty because you can't handle Hell 2+?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #2426
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Amazon should earn money.
    But Blizzard musn't.

    Youtubers/streamers decided that long time ago(nobody even compared Immortal to Lost Ark so far).

    Don't act like you have an opinion - you are nothing, but the voice these content creators.
    In my opinion Lost Ark is almost just as shit as D:I and I played both.

    Lost Ark absolutely does not shy away from selling power and employs quite a bit of D:I's repertoire to do so. D:I still elevates it to the next level, but Lost Ark absolutely is yet another case of this crap seeping into PC and what's worse becoming accepted there.

  7. #2427
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    In my opinion Lost Ark is almost just as shit as D:I and I played both.

    Lost Ark absolutely does not shy away from selling power and employs quite a bit of D:I's repertoire to do so. D:I still elevates it to the next level, but Lost Ark absolutely is yet another case of this crap seeping into PC and what's worse becoming accepted there.
    Thats my main gripe with this and marketing games to kids that have gambling and utilizing psychology tricks they've paid experts to research

    Developers used to fear a backlash from gamers at the mere mention of "p2w"

    Blizzard have been smart with this "mobile game". So Now that when D4 comes out they can milk the fuck out of that and everyone who was saying

    "Its a mobile game thats what they are like!"

    Will be saying

    "They did it with Diablo immortal why are you still moaning about it now, thats like SO 2022...."

    Sighhhh

  8. #2428
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudi View Post
    It’s not about self control or lack of it. It’s about designing a game in such a way that everything literally forces you to spend money - while lying and calling the game free.

    Take PoE for example. It’s “free” alright. However, the inventory that is available for free is simply not enough to play the game efficiently. The game is designed - purposely of course - in such a way that you’re either spending real money for extra inventory, or get stuck in a situation where you have to spend 90% of your playtime micromanaging the inventory (maps are a good example).

    It the game free? No, because you essentially unable to enjoy it unless you spend real money. It’s a great game, but still a fraud.
    As someone that has been playing Diablo Immortal for free and has not spent even a single penny on it, I'm going to have to disagree with you on basically your entire post. I have also played PoE for free and also enjoyed that game, also without ever spending a single penny. There is nothing in the game that "literally forces you to spend money." That would be called theft. It is entirely up to the player and their self-control whether they spend or not, Blizzard is quite literally incapable of forcing you or anyone else to spend money, at least not without massive lawsuits. Your enjoyment of the game isn't dictated by the cost. Many pay-to-play games are massively unfun, while many free-to-play, pay-for-cosmetic games are massively fun. If YOU are unable to enjoy the game without spending money, that is entirely a YOU problem. Again I want to make it clear, I agree that Diablo Immortal is heavy-handed on the monetization, but at no point does it "force" you to spend money on it.

  9. #2429
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Thats my main gripe with this and marketing games to kids that have gambling and utilizing psychology tricks they've paid experts to research

    Developers used to fear a backlash from gamers at the mere mention of "p2w"

    Blizzard have been smart with this "mobile game". So Now that when D4 comes out they can milk the fuck out of that and everyone who was saying

    "Its a mobile game thats what they are like!"

    Will be saying

    "They did it with Diablo immortal why are you still moaning about it now, thats like SO 2022...."

    Sighhhh
    I can tell you what the secret trick is. Fun.

    Fun costs money. You might not be old enough to remember the arcade halls - those were fun. And if you had all the money in the world, you would spend it all there.

  10. #2430
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I can tell you what the secret trick is. Fun.

    Fun costs money. You might not be old enough to remember the arcade halls - those were fun. And if you had all the money in the world, you would spend it all there.
    Yeah thats not a fair comparison though. People have their own computers now AND pay for the product of the game.

    Arcades you were paying to use the machine as much as playing the game.

    Now we've gone backwards where we are no longer able to pay for the game for our PC or mobile and we pay for the service again.

    So yay regression i guess?

  11. #2431
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah thats not a fair comparison though. People have their own computers now AND pay for the product of the game.

    Arcades you were paying to use the machine as much as playing the game.

    Now we've gone backwards where we are no longer able to pay for the game for our PC or mobile and we pay for the service again.

    So yay regression i guess?
    No? You don't buy mobile games(atleast not the major ones). But you buy the fun part. That is the design philosophy. Very simple - been around for last 2000 years since the first gamble got introduced.

  12. #2432
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    No? You don't buy mobile games(atleast not the major ones). But you buy the fun part. That is the design philosophy. Very simple - been around for last 2000 years since the first gamble got introduced.
    Can anyone come up with a better answer than "Thats what mobile games do!"

    Why?

    Why is it ok to be free to play and target whales to the point these games are making upwards 100k+ a month?

    Why do PC and mobile have to be in their own lanes? Because they sure as shit are gonna be bringing more of these monetization practices into PC games after the success with mobile.

  13. #2433
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Can anyone come up with a better answer than "Thats what mobile games do!"

    Why?

    Why is it ok to be free to play and target whales to the point these games are making upwards 100k+ a month?

    Why do PC and mobile have to be in their own lanes? Because they sure as shit are gonna be bringing more of these monetization practices into PC games after the success with mobile.
    I can? Here look at this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Amazon should earn money.
    But Blizzard musn't.

    Youtubers/streamers decided that long time ago(nobody even compared Immortal to Lost Ark so far).

    Don't act like you have an opinion - you are nothing, but the voice these content creators.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-06-21 at 06:11 AM.

  14. #2434
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I can? Here look at this post:
    Thats not an answer.

    And I'm really struggling to see what your point is by quoting that.

    What does amazon have to do anything? Reeks of whataboutism.

  15. #2435
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Thats not an answer.

    And I'm really struggling to see what your point is by quoting that.

    What does amazon have to do anything? Reeks of whataboutism.
    Try this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Genuine question:

    1)Why do you pay for Netflix? -
    OR - How would you run a buisness like Netflix(buy it once as you say?).

    2)Payment of the devs, marketing, HR, management and every other involved team(do you believe companies consists of bunch of geeks in a basement)?

    3)Payment of the the facilities - i.e the office and everything related to run a building?

    4)Who will pay the IT infrastructure, so that the game can actually run(i.e constant maintenance of the servers and callcenters)?

    You see - I think it's all 'Netflix' - game companies just have the chance to squeeze more out of it. And they should - they make good money from it(actually they make much than Netflix and all the services).

    There are not here to give you freespins - they are here to run a buisness.

    Answer these - maybe you find your own answers.

  16. #2436
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    "They did it with Diablo immortal why are you still moaning about it now, thats like SO 2022...."
    Well you are still moaning about it and Blizzard did pay to win in 2014 with Hearthstone. So they have two mobile titles with pay to win. Diablo 3 is the non-mobile title that had pay to win in the form of the real money auction house.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #2437
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Try this one:
    You're comparing netflix which is totally different.

    They've taken on massive debt to be a front runner in a new industry. Their business model doesnt even look sustainable as evident by their constant sub member price hike.

    Tell it to me like im a 5 year old how thats the same thing as an established industry giant with near unlimited resources and backing needs to out source to china to have them create a mobile game that uses state of the art predatory practises.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Well you are still moaning about it and Blizzard did pay to win in 2014 with Hearthstone. So they have two mobile titles with pay to win. Diablo 3 is the non-mobile title that had pay to win in the form of the real money auction house.
    See what i mean? my point exactly. "They did it back in 2014!"

    Grandfathered principle is fine I guess. Cant make this stuff up.

  18. #2438
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    See what i mean? my point exactly. "They did it back in 2014!" Grandfathered principle is fine I guess. Cant make this stuff up.
    So complaining over the past 8 years didn't change anything why do you think do so will change things now? Your point is flawed. Blizzard already was terrible yet you, and others, still played and consumed Blizzards content. Or even worse you, and others, quit playing and consuming content but still devote energy towards surrounding yourself with Blizzard things even though you hate everything they stand for.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #2439
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So complaining over the past 8 years didn't change anything why do you think do so will change things now? Your point is flawed. Blizzard already was terrible yet you, and others, still played and consumed Blizzards content. Or even worse you, and others, quit playing and consuming content but still devote energy towards surrounding yourself with Blizzard things even though you hate everything they stand for.
    Look I wont disagree with you that me detesting them on a forum is pointless.

    Trust me lad I understand my opinion means fuck all when whales are throwing their credit cards at this stuff.

  20. #2440
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    You're comparing netflix which is totally different.

    They've taken on massive debt to be a front runner in a new industry. Their business model doesnt even look sustainable as evident by their constant sub member price hike.

    Tell it to me like im a 5 year old how thats the same thing as an established industry giant with near unlimited resources and backing needs to out source to china to have them create a mobile game that uses state of the art predatory practises.

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    See what i mean? my point exactly. "They did it back in 2014!"

    Grandfathered principle is fine I guess. Cant make this stuff up.
    Not the same?

    Okay... I'm not convinced. They are providing a platform, you login to a server, you gain access to the resource.

    Both require same technology. And running this - requires substantial staffing, a datacenter, management team and call center(most likely a catina, cleaners, office bills etc.).

    So tell me - why does Netflix cost or how should Blizzard earn money in this case?
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-06-21 at 06:24 AM.

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