Instead of "Dracthyr", we should just get player-sized Dragons

[Teriz]

Reread what I said.
The fantasy of being both is very clearly what they were going for.
Yet I can’t fly around in demon form, or raise Death Knights.

You're stating what you believe Blizzard's intentions were when creating those classes. Blizzard NEVER stated that when you roll a DK or a DH you're going to be fulfilling the fantasy of playing as Illidan or the Lich King. However, they have stated repeatedly that the Dracthyr fulfills the fantasy of playing as a dragon.

We should also recognize that you're playing as a creature here. When Druids turn into beasts, they're actually beasts. Death Knights allow you to be undead and Demon Hunters allow you to be a demon. Shaman allow you to (briefly) play as an elemental. If we had a Tinker class and it allowed you to transform into a robot, you would be a mechanical.

It's quite odd that some here can't accept that Blizzard is now allowing you to be a playable dragon.

Nah blizzard said that they’re mortals infused with the essences of dragons which is the backstory behind the Drakonids that we’ve seen.
Both were created to be soldiers for the dragonflights.

Yeah, Blizzard didn't say that. They said that Neltharian merged the essence of dragons with the adaptability of mortals. They never said that he physically took mortals and merged them with dragons.

Both have mortal visage forms.
Both can call upon/use magic from the dragonflights, even chromatic drakonids exist that can use all dragonflights magics like the Dracthyr.

Link?

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I don’t know how, but Blizzard solve a lot of problems by allowing Dracthyr to fight in visage form, with the option to choose your humanoid race. The dragon form could be an evoker cool-down, shapeshift, or out of combat form.

I believe the problem with that is it would be too close to Demon Hunters.

In addition, the main selling point of the DE is playing as a dragon. I don't believe most players want to be a glorified mage. They would rather be a dragon flying around and raining down fire with dragon flame.

[cocomen2]

Only bipedal dragon that i love, not skinny, no ugly wings, dragon face.



P.S. with all love for jackie.

[Ielenia]

They say that while also referring to them as dragons, which indicates that to Blizzard a draconic humanoid can also be a dragon.

So not only you're admitting drakonids are dragons, but you're also using a very loose definition of the word "dragon"?

Please note, Blizzard has NEVER said that dracthyr are not dragons

They have, in the deep-dive video, when they called the dracthyr "hybrids of dragons and non-dragons".

No, they said we wanted you to play as a dragon, but we can’t let you be as big as Alexstraza, but you’re a dragon via the dracthyr.

Yeah, because dracthyrs aren't dragons. Dragons are four-legged scaled winged lizard-beings with a defined shape and form. The dracthyr may be scaly, and winged, but it's definitely not 'four-legged' and its shape is wildly different than a dragon such as Kalecgos and Alexstrasza.

[Nightshade711]

You're stating what you believe Blizzard's intentions were when creating those classes. Blizzard NEVER stated that when you roll a DK or a DH you're going to be fulfilling the fantasy of playing as Illidan or the Lich King. However, they have stated repeatedly that the Dracthyr fulfills the fantasy of playing as a dragon.

We should also recognize that you're playing as a creature here. When Druids turn into beasts, they're actually beasts. Death Knights allow you to be undead and Demon Hunters allow you to be a demon. Shaman allow you to (briefly) play as an elemental. If we had a Tinker class and it allowed you to transform into a robot, you would be a mechanical.

It's quite odd that some here can't accept that Blizzard is now allowing you to be a playable dragon.

So you’re saying all that, but you can’t see that DHs and DKs were created to fulfill the fantasy of being Arthas/Illidan without actually being Illidan or Arthas.

Yeah, Blizzard didn't say that. They said that Neltharian merged the essence of dragons with the adaptability of mortals. They never said that he physically took mortals and merged them with dragons.

“They never said they merged mortals with dragons, they just merged mortals with dragons.”

Link?

For visage forms:
Creed in Cataclysm
The Dragonmaw chieftain in BC.

For the magic:
Literally most of not all of the Drakonids we fight use their dragonflight’s magics in some form.

Drakonids are as much dragons as Dracthyr are.

[Rendark]

If i could be a goblin half dragon thing then maybe i would try them. Only human and elf is so lazy.

[Teriz]

So you’re saying all that, but you can’t see that DHs and DKs were created to fulfill the fantasy of being Arthas/Illidan without actually being Illidan or Arthas.

Again, where did Blizzard ever specifically say this? Your original argument was that Blizzard is calling dracthyr dragons as a marketing gimmick, and you used the LK and Illidan as an example. However, the comparison doesn't line up because Blizzard NEVER marketed DKs or DHs in that fashion, or stated what you're stating here.

“They never said they merged mortals with dragons, they just merged mortals with dragons.”

Essence and Adaptability, qualities, not the literal beings themsels. In other words, not literally a dragon and a mortal. Additionally, it isn't the same as a mortal slave who is mutated from proximity to dragon magic.

For visage forms:
Creed in Cataclysm
The Dragonmaw chieftain in BC.

Yeah, Creed is an outlier, and literally makes zero sense given the lore behind Drakonids, or why Wration sends you to kill him.

Link me the other one.

In the end, Drakonids simply can't replicate the powers and abilities of dragons or the dragonflights. With one or two exceptions, they're hideous monsters, and mindless slaves of the flights.

For the magic:
Literally most of not all of the Drakonids we fight use their dragonflight’s magics in some form.

All I saw from various Drakonids were variations of Warlock, Warrior, and Mage spells. Nothing directly from the dragonflights like Deep Breath, Flame Buffet, or Blessing of the Bronze.

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Yeah, because dracthyrs aren't dragons. Dragons are four-legged scaled winged lizard-beings with a defined shape and form. The dracthyr may be scaly, and winged, but it's definitely not 'four-legged' and its shape is wildly different than a dragon such as Kalecgos and Alexstrasza.

Blizzard disagrees.

[Ielenia]

Blizzard disagrees.

You're wrong. Blizzard agrees with me. Because entities like Alexstrasza, Kalecgos, Chromie, Nozdormu and the dragons of the dragonflights are only ones called dragons in Warcraft. Because no other mob with a different shape is called "dragon".

While you are using an outdated page from a book from the early days of Warcraft III.

[Aucald]

This thread is needlessly hung up on a tangential semantic debate. Let's drop the "are Dracthyr literal dragons" aside and address the OP's assertion that Dracthyr or a similar hypothetical playable race should have a traditional dragon form a la Druid shapeshifting, etc.

[qwerty123456]

I never said a half elf has to be a high elf, however those are the only half elves we’ve seen, and those are the variety that Kalec clearly imitated, because NE/Humans have never been shown in WoW.



It says custom hair COLOR, not hair STYLE. His model’s hairstyle is available on human males.



Instead of looking at the screen cap, I recommend watching the video.

Anyway, once a poster resorts to name-calling, they’ve lost the argument, which is clearly the case here.

Because something hasn't been shown yet you assume he isn't it? Why does he look like a human when the only known high/human looks like a high/blood elf?

No its says he has custom blue hair. It doesn't say the color itself is custom. Also I already showed you the blue color hair on night elves and near identical blue on the other elves. Look again, humans can't pick that hairstyle. The long hairstyle is the closest to it and on the left side you can clearly see they are different.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=24848/kalecgos#modelviewer
https://www.wowhead.com/dressing-roo...08vYa808vYk87q

Lol your the one who is trying to use low quality gifs. I have repeatedly said watch the videos cause you can see that the burning blur is from the poor quality of the gifs.


Didn't see mod post. I'll stop responding to Teriz and stay on topic.

OT I wouldn't mind player sized dragons. They would have looked more impressive than the Dracthyr and dragons grow as they age so if they were actual dragons instead of dragon/mortal hybrids it could make sense for them being smaller.

[Syegfryed]

Your opinion. Blizzard plainly states otherwise.

is like saying the hybrid of a lion and a tiger is a lion, but do you as you wish

Yes, Blizzard would want dragons to have the power of dragons.

you are basing your argument in the premise, thats why it falls apaprt like this.

blizzard could have put this "power" as dragonsworm class to other other, without the necessity to made up some nonsense race.

Hell, on the topic, they could have made us be literalyl small dragons, playing as wyrmilings, better than this shit "draconic form bs"

Being a gnome isn’t the power of Chromie and the bronze Dragonflight. It’s the power of time, which the dracthyr possess as well.

being a gnome, and other races, are power of dragons, which you as dracthyr, clearly don't posses fully, as you can only change to ONE form, and your form is imperfect, as you still retain scales, completely ignoring their reason to exist in the first palce, which was to blend with mortals.

So again, it would be much better to have a proper draconic humanoid race, such as drakonid, and have a separate class wielding the power of dragons, - dragonsworn - which both we already had,

Blizzard stated that no existing race or class could accomplish what they set out to do with the dracthyr evoker. Hence why they created.

And that is a big fat lie from then and you well know it, the only reason you are backing on it like this is with the hope of, because of this they may do the same with tinker

Which is bogus cause just because blizz did this doesn't mean they will do tinker, they are totally unrelated.

[Gumble]

This thread is needlessly hung up on a tangential semantic debate. Let's drop the "are Dracthyr literal dragons" aside and address the OP's assertion that Dracthyr or a similar hypothetical playable race should have a traditional dragon form a la Druid shapeshifting, etc.

I think most people in the thread, outside of 2-3 outliers agreed with his assertion. The thread has devolved into those 2-3 people replying over and over to everything to protect the new race/class against percieved threats.

Its about 1-2 pages of agreement and 15 pages of "NU UH THEY R DRAGONS!"

[Teriz]

you are basing your argument in the premise, thats why it falls apaprt like this.

blizzard could have put this "power" as dragonsworm class to other other, without the necessity to made up some nonsense race.

Hell, on the topic, they could have made us be literalyl small dragons, playing as wyrmilings, better than this shit "draconic form bs"

We already have two dragonsworn classes: Mages and Druids. Dracthyr forms are perfect for what they were designed for within the technical limitations of the game. People wouldn’t want “small dragons.”

being a gnome, and other races, are power of dragons, which you as dracthyr, clearly don't posses fully, as you can only change to ONE form, and your form is imperfect, as you still retain scales, completely ignoring their reason to exist in the first palce, which was to blend with mortals.

If you want to be a Gnome with time magic abilities, roll a Gnome arcane mage. If you want the powers of the bronze Dragonflight, roll a Dracthyr Evoker. It’s that simple. No one is going to be avoiding the DE class because they can’t be a Female Gnome.

And that is a big fat lie from then and you well know it, the only reason you are backing on it like this is with the hope of, because of this they may do the same with tinker

Which is bogus cause just because blizz did this doesn't mean they will do tinker, they are totally unrelated.

See my sig. This has nothing to do with Tinkers.

[Ielenia]

We already have two dragonsworn classes: Mages and Druids.

Wrong. Mage and druid aren't "dragonsworn" classes. They're mages and druids. That's like saying the hunter is a tinker class.

[Teriz]

Wrong. Mage and druid aren't "dragonsworn" classes. They're mages and druids. That's like saying the hunter is a tinker class.

Traditionally, the most well-known dragonsworn are druids in service of Ysera; that is not to say that all druids who walked the Emerald Dream were chosen to serve the green dragonflight, but many were taken into Ysera’s service in the thousands of years they slept. Most of the typical servants of each flight have an occupation that matches the interests of the flight: Blue dragons favor talented magi, but a trustworthy priest or paladin might also gain their interest. Of course, some people are chosen simply for their dedication — while the bronze dragonflight may not have any particular tie to a warrior, he might impress with his strength and loyalty. All potential dragonsworn show some magical proclivity, though.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragonsworn

Also, they have talents like Alexstraza's Fury and Ysera's Gift.

[Nightshade711]

Dracthyr must be dragonsworn too, they have lots of dragon themed/named abilities and talents!

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This thread is needlessly hung up on a tangential semantic debate. Let's drop the "are Dracthyr literal dragons" aside and address the OP's assertion that Dracthyr or a similar hypothetical playable race should have a traditional dragon form a la Druid shapeshifting, etc.

Wrong. Mage and druid aren't "dragonsworn" classes. They're mages and druids. That's like saying the hunter is a tinker class.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragonsworn

Also, they have talents like Alexstraza's Fury and Ysera's Gift.

Seems kinda wrong to infract users for talking about dragonsworn after the warning, dragon sworn aren’t dragons and function like dragon esc Druid forms they are inline with the thread topic and the warning.

Dragonsworn from the rpg for reference.

Draconic Claws (Su): At will as a free action, the dragonsworn can transform her hands into powerful claws imbued with the energy of the Aspects.

Scales of the Protector (Su): Once per day, the dragonsworn can summon dragon-like scales of the color of her flight to cover her form.

Wings of the Aspects (Su): The strongest dragonsworn are granted the boon of flight, and learn to conjure wings to allow them to fly with their patron.

[Auburst]

Dude basicaly said the wow playerbase is not the target audience of the dracthyr evoker

the irony of this words

It's what some really believe. Today Blizz announced pre-orders without even one screenshot of Soythyr.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...agonflight-now

Curious.

[Varodoc]

Is it just me, or Dracthyr are fucking ugly? They look like roasted beta lizards. Literally the only redeeming quality about Dracthyr, and the reason why people will play them, is that at least you have the option to look like an elf/human, who are objectively the two best-looking and most beautiful races in the game.

I definitely would have preferred an actual dragon, not an anorexic lizard.

[loras]

Do you guys think we'll get a dragon resembling a murloc? Or a murloc resembling a dragon?

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Is it just me, or Dracthyr are fucking ugly? They look like roasted beta lizards. Literally the only redeeming quality about Dracthyr, and the reason why people will play them, is that at least you have the option to look like an elf/human, who are objectively the two best-looking and most beautiful races in the game.

I definitely would have preferred an actual dragon, not an anorexic lizard.

Hey, some people like playing Argonians!
Not me, but some.

[Varodoc]

Do you guys think we'll get a dragon resembling a murloc? Or a murloc resembling a dragon?

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Hey, some people like playing Argonians!
Not me, but some.

People play Argonian and Khajiit for the memes, not because they actually fit or look badass as the Dragonborn.

It's like Gnomes, Goblin, and Vulpera. People play these gremlins for the memes, not because they look like badass heroes.

Argonians are also presented as a separate race from dragons. They have no connection to dragons.

Imagine if in Elder Scrolls 6 we learned that we can play as a dragon, like Alduin, only to be presented with an Argonian-looking dude/girl. I don't think the TES fandom would be happy.

And finally, to be fair, you can customize your Argonian to not look anorexic.