[TV] Disney+ Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Fabinas]

There's a difference between "accepting and not taxing my brain overthinking about" and "defending".

They're amusing idiosyncracies. It's Fridge Logic, a term basically coined by Hitchcock (he used the term "icebox", but it's the same thing).

And I'll point back to one of my earlier points; if these kinds of things ruin Star Wars for you, you're telling me you don't like Star Wars, because it's all always been ruined for you. Which, again, no judgement, but plenty of people do enjoy it despite this stuff. We get caught up in the narrative and don't let it bother us later that week where we're digging through the fridge and think "hey, wait a minute . . ."

I've definitely complained about things in Star Wars. It's weird that it's so consistently and casually and intentionally pro-slavery, for instance. But those complaints are more about core themes I have an issue with, not inconsistencies between two different films, or something. I also don't seek out inconsistencies; if there's a charitable interpretation that could justify the portrayal, I presume that's the interpretation I'm expected to go by. This goes even if Character A says "X is true" and Character B says "X is false and you'd have to be dumb to think it's true". That's not a "plot hole". The charitable interpretation is that one (or more) character is lying or wrong (or both!), within the context of the narrative itself. Because characters aren't omniscient and infallible, generally.

But here, with Kenobi, we're not really dealing with plot holes. Why did Bail Organa leave an incriminating message? Because he's kind of a nonce. Why did Leia in ANH not talk about knowing Kenobi? Maybe she's being cagey. Sure, she mentions Bail again, but if she's smart, Bail Organa's Rebel affiliations may be well-known (explaining why they obliterate Alderaan, since it's a WEE bit of an overreaction if it was seriously all about Leia), and dropping the intel she knows isn't a secret as a cover for the real secret she's not talking about (that she knows Kenobi personally) is justifiable. Especially when she knows she's about to be grabbed by Vader himself, who she'll know has a hate on for Vader after the events in the show. There's the "charitable interpretation". No need to consider it a "plot hole" or "inconsistency". Were the writers thinking this precisely? Maybe not, but I don't care. I'm not trying to tear it down, and if I can think of one possible explanation, there may be more.

Or, in short, watch less Cinema Sins. Watch more Cinema Wins.

Oh man, really stop defending crap with the turd logic "That's what Star Wars always have been". Things we could accept gullibly while being 10 years old (when the OT came out) or reluctantly in our 30s (when the prequels came out) are no longer acceptable as genre tropes now that we are older, smarter and with a huge book/cinema story experience.

We grew up. We demand that writers for Star Wars grow up as well and present us with more mature, more believable stories (at least within the fictional universe's rules).

Having to explain every poor shit storytelling as "consistent" with the genre-universe is tiring and not acceptable anymore. Disney should be hiring huge talents for their story making. Instead, they just want to cash in on their SW investment by feeding us stale, cheap and unhealthy (for anyone with a working brain, at least) shit stories. How they treated the sequel trilogy reveals tons. With the exception of Mandalorian, most cinematic and tv content has been shit, story wise.

And don't start with "Star Wars is not for you, then". Star Wars is a fictional universe and setting and it is for me. It wasn't built as "tropey", per se. Lucas never had in his SW bible any rules about tropey storytelling. The main Skywalker saga was made tropey by each individual contribution in it. The stories (well, most of them anyway) Disney is producing in their effort to capitalize on their investment are cheap and tropey not because of the need of internal consistency or adhering to the universe rules. They are just this. Cheap copouts

- - - Updated - - -

Rather you enjoy them or not you kinda have to accept that starwars is fundamentally built on them going all the way back to the OT and that’s unlikely to ever change.

if plot hours are a huge issue to some one starwars hasn't ever been the franchise for them.

Just,lol....

Ask Disney to hire you as SW storyteller. You got it, bro.

[Ghost of Cow]

Oh man, really stop defending crap with the turd logic "That's what Star Wars always have been". Things we could accept gullibly while being 10 years old (when the OT came out) or reluctantly in our 30s (when the prequels came out) are no longer acceptable as genre tropes now that we are older, smarter and with a huge book/cinema story experience.

We grew up. We demand that writers for Star Wars grow up as well and present us with more mature, more believable stories (at least within the fictional universe's rules).

Having to explain every poor shit storytelling as "consistent" with the genre-universe is tiring and not acceptable anymore. Disney should be hiring huge talents for their story making. Instead, they just want to cash in on their SW investment by feeding us stale, cheap and unhealthy (for anyone with a working brain, at least) shit stories. How they treated the sequel trilogy reveals tons. With the exception of Mandalorian, most cinematic and tv content has been shit, story wise.

And don't start with "Star Wars is not for you, then". Star Wars is a fictional universe and setting and it is for me. It wasn't built as "tropey", per se. Lucas never had in his SW bible any rules about tropey storytelling. The main Skywalker saga was made tropey by each individual contribution in it. The stories (well, most of them anyway) Disney is producing in their effort to capitalize on their investment are cheap and tropey not because of the need of internal consistency or adhering to the universe rules. They are just this. Cheap copouts

Look, Endus and I disagree on this topic a lot, but I honestly think you're on the wrong side of the issue here.

If you get older and less tolerant of certain things in your media and expect different tropes and whatnot...that's just you growing up and changing tastes. It's not really the job of Star Wars - or ANY form of media, for that matter - to change with you.

Mortal Kombat doesn't need to turn into a game about friends hanging out just because you got older and decided that uppercutting someone's head off isn't funny anymore.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Oh man, really stop defending crap with the turd logic "That's what Star Wars always have been". Things we could accept gullibly while being 10 years old (when the OT came out) or reluctantly in our 30s (when the prequels came out) are no longer acceptable as genre tropes now that we are older, smarter and with a huge book/cinema story experience.

We grew up. We demand that writers for Star Wars grow up as well and present us with more mature, more believable stories (at least within the fictional universe's rules).

Having to explain every poor shit storytelling as "consistent" with the genre-universe is tiring and not acceptable anymore. Disney should be hiring huge talents for their story making. Instead, they just want to cash in on their SW investment by feeding us stale, cheap and unhealthy (for anyone with a working brain, at least) shit stories. How they treated the sequel trilogy reveals tons. With the exception of Mandalorian, most cinematic and tv content has been shit, story wise.

And don't start with "Star Wars is not for you, then". Star Wars is a fictional universe and setting and it is for me. It wasn't built as "tropey", per se. Lucas never had in his SW bible any rules about tropey storytelling. The main Skywalker saga was made tropey by each individual contribution in it. The stories (well, most of them anyway) Disney is producing in their effort to capitalize on their investment are cheap and tropey not because of the need of internal consistency or adhering to the universe rules. They are just this. Cheap copouts

- - - Updated - - -



Just,lol....

Ask Disney to hire you as SW storyteller. You got it, bro.

It just sound's like starwars really isn't the franchise for you, the OT was full of plot hole's, the EU before the prequels was filled with plot holes, The prequels were filled with plot holes, the post Prequel EU was filled with plot holes, under Disney it is and will continue to be filled with plot holes.

So again if this is a huge issue for you then starwars isn't the franchise for you as it has always and will always be filled with plot holes.

[Ihavewaffles]

de-aging Anakin

[ati87]

There's a difference between "accepting and not taxing my brain overthinking about" and "defending".

They're amusing idiosyncracies. It's Fridge Logic, a term basically coined by Hitchcock (he used the term "icebox", but it's the same thing).

And I'll point back to one of my earlier points; if these kinds of things ruin Star Wars for you, you're telling me you don't like Star Wars, because it's all always been ruined for you. Which, again, no judgement, but plenty of people do enjoy it despite this stuff. We get caught up in the narrative and don't let it bother us later that week where we're digging through the fridge and think "hey, wait a minute . . ."

I've definitely complained about things in Star Wars. It's weird that it's so consistently and casually and intentionally pro-slavery, for instance. But those complaints are more about core themes I have an issue with, not inconsistencies between two different films, or something. I also don't seek out inconsistencies; if there's a charitable interpretation that could justify the portrayal, I presume that's the interpretation I'm expected to go by. This goes even if Character A says "X is true" and Character B says "X is false and you'd have to be dumb to think it's true". That's not a "plot hole". The charitable interpretation is that one (or more) character is lying or wrong (or both!), within the context of the narrative itself. Because characters aren't omniscient and infallible, generally.

But here, with Kenobi, we're not really dealing with plot holes. Why did Bail Organa leave an incriminating message? Because he's kind of a nonce. Why did Leia in ANH not talk about knowing Kenobi? Maybe she's being cagey. Sure, she mentions Bail again, but if she's smart, Bail Organa's Rebel affiliations may be well-known (explaining why they obliterate Alderaan, since it's a WEE bit of an overreaction if it was seriously all about Leia), and dropping the intel she knows isn't a secret as a cover for the real secret she's not talking about (that she knows Kenobi personally) is justifiable. Especially when she knows she's about to be grabbed by Vader himself, who she'll know has a hate on for Vader after the events in the show. There's the "charitable interpretation". No need to consider it a "plot hole" or "inconsistency". Were the writers thinking this precisely? Maybe not, but I don't care. I'm not trying to tear it down, and if I can think of one possible explanation, there may be more.

Or, in short, watch less Cinema Sins. Watch more Cinema Wins.

it's time for a remake of SW Eps 4 to 6! To make it overal more consistent theme and have a bit deeper give into the overal characters. Maybe make it a series and each season is a movie.
Give it a FF7 Remake overhaul....stories that we only saw hints of and characters that got added afterwards needs to be inclucded.

[Darththeo]

it's time for a remake of SW Eps 4 to 6! To make it overal more consistent theme and have a bit deeper give into the overal characters. Maybe make it a series and each season is a movie.
Give it a FF7 Remake overhaul....stories that we only saw hints of and characters that got added afterwards needs to be inclucded.

Yes, because rebooting Star Trek worked so well for Trek.
Star Wars should totally do the same thing.

[Kathandira]

it's time for a remake of SW Eps 4 to 6! To make it overal more consistent theme and have a bit deeper give into the overal characters. Maybe make it a series and each season is a movie.

Nah. I personally would not like that.

What i'd rather see, is to depart from the 80 year timespan that all these movies take place within, and either go thousands of years in the past (Old Republic), or hundreds to thousands of years into the future.

[Ragedaug]

Or, in short, watch less Cinema Sins. Watch more Cinema Wins.

I can't watch Cinema Sins. I thought the first few were funny, but they quickly got toxic, and really reached to find stuff to complain about. I'm more of a Pitch Meetings guy. Point out the flaws, but still have some fun with it.

[Ihavewaffles]

I can't watch Cinema Sins. I thought the first few were funny, but they quickly got toxic, and really reached to find stuff to complain about. I'm more of a Pitch Meetings guy. Point out the flaws, but still have some fun with it.

I think their biggest sin was that they made up sins just to say something was a sin, so people could get a steady dose of 'sins' things that were correct, they pretended was something faulty..after x amount of 'sins' in movies i have seen where they pretend they saw something else, couldn't stand it any longer...it got to the point one could no longer think they might have misunderstood what was happening in the story, they just talked shit in the end..

[Theangryone]

Wonder when is Disney going to announce the Reva spin-off show, I mean that was the point of this right..

Doubt the last episode can fix the show so I'm glad when it's over wednesday.

Already in the works good sir.

As for the last episode, I’ll be shocked as shit if we don’t have parallels between Kenobi and the Last Jedi since they can’t seem to let that movie go. We already have a potential space chase with a ship that cannot jump to light speed, but I’m calling Reva’s redemption as she stands over Luke with her lightsaber at the ready ala Luke. But, because Reva isn’t a failure like Luke, she will sense the boys goodness and turn from the dark side making it that Reva saved Luke all those years and not sad boi Ben

[Ihavewaffles]

Just give reva spin-off to rian johnson, that way only the biggest 'fans' will go see it...

- - - Updated - - -

Less than one hour to go, even if it becomes a good episode, it will be less good/okay'ish ones than book of boba, kenobi will be the worst sw show this year, even ever...

Andor just has to be decent, bad batch will def be decent fer sure!

[PACOX]

I don't care if you liked the show or not, it's not often you see a characters story come full circle. Love to see it.

[Biomega]

Oof, that was a bit of a flat ending.

I mean, we knew it couldn't really end in some dramatic showdown given that Vader and Obi-Wan both need to survive intact - but this just felt kind of... anticlimactic.

The duel was fine in terms of choreography. Perfectly respectable fight. But it just felt a little... out of place? Despite the impressive visuals. Half-mask Vader looked cool, though the dialogue was a bit on the cringe side. Especially Vader's wrap-up with Palpatine.

Maybe it's the overall story arc of the series that makes this ending so unexciting, or maybe it's that the whole Vader hunting Obi-Wan thing is diluted by the almost unnecessary presence of the inquisitors.

I don't say this often, but: this really should have been a movie rather than a series. Cut the whole Reva arc, just make it about Leia being kidnapped, Vader finding Obi-Wan because of it and hunting him across a few systems, the end.

Reva's presence felt entirely superfluous. Which is the OPPOSITE of what you want a new strong character to be. All she does is ride both in and out on Anakin's coattails, an afterthought to his presence with little to no personal elements other than being collateral damage personified. What's up with that kind of shitty writing? That's not how you get people to care for a character, doubly so if you want to do a spin-off show (if that rumor is even true). SMH. Where are they getting these writers, there's so much talent out there and they allowed a character to be designed by a middle schooler who's read their first two YA novels; or the Hollywood equivalent of that, anyway.

The rest of the story was wrapped up okay-ish. Did smile at the meme greeting at the end. Well done.

[PACOX]

Vader's little talk with Palpatine was great as far as the Sith go imo. It really characterizes the Sith. You have Palpatine addressing Vader with the tone of a superior and a colleague. Palpatine telling Vader to move past his grudge and Vader immediately understanding the wisdom behind it like two philosophers. That kind of awareness and control is what separates the Sith from, say, the Inquisitors.

Obi walking away from Vader without fear and clarity to making sure he will get back to his responsibilities is what defines the Jedi. He could have gotten wrapped up the spiral Vader was taking him down but it would have risked him not making it back to the kids. He took the high ground. This time without the pain, guilt, and fear of Mustafar.

Reva lived. IDK. That's so inconsequential that I forgot it.

[Ihavewaffles]

Lol...

How predictable, they gave reva the maul goal of finding luke..

Then did opening of new hope...

Kenobi did the Ahsoka vs Vader fight where she slashes off part of his helmet where his eye is so u can see it...
They are cannibalizing their own canon lore, n now fuck Ahsoka's duel...gg



Was a decent episode, they should have made Vader think Kenobi died...

[s_bushido]

Then did opening of new hope...

So you're saying a Star Destroyer can never be seen chasing and firing on a ship ever again in a piece of Star Wars media?

Kenobi did the Ahsoka vs Vader fight where she slashes off part of his helmet where his eye is so u can see it...

So you're saying you weren't paying attention in almost any piece of media featuring masked characters where they find some excuse to show those characters' faces for the important moments?



Anyway, nitpicking shitbaggery from the peanut gallery aside, that was a good episode with some great scenes. The show was pretty rough in places but they did manage to end it strong.

[Ihavewaffles]

And here comes one of the usual suspects being annoying n obtuse

Chasing a ship is one thing, replicate shot is another

And now they lessened Ahsoka's fight, which was unique what anyone has done to Vader.

[PACOX]

Its okay. If Vader could let go of his anger then so can you.

[s_bushido]

And here comes one of the usual suspects being annoying n obtuse

"Usual suspects," indeed. /wanking motion

And now they lessened Ahsoka's fight, which was unique what anyone has done to Vader.

With these recent displays of power, they've also lessened how much of a Mary Sue you people have been whining about Rey being for the past 6 fucking years too. But I don't see you complaining about that.

[Ihavewaffles]

Rey is a mary sue, wtf she got to do with this show? Every force user here is trained, bacta tank to throw in a character has nothing to do with their training.
As for Ahsoka, she is the direct opposite of a mary sue

What do u get out of ur shittposting, u think they will ever notice you or something? You n the rest of the usual suspects behave like you work for a troll farm, but u are so goddamn stupid u do it for free, but keep sucking those corporate dicks, only thing you are good for