1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I think what is hypocrital is to compare the amazon and Jackson work as the same thing/level.

    Just because they have "changes" don't mean they are he same, there is a gradient of how much is changed, how impactful the changes are and how those changes contradict the world/characters. Like, i understand they changed Aragorn from the books to the movies, but that seems to pale in comparison to what they are doing with the elf lady in the series.

    So, to me, in terms of adaptation, is all about a gradient, on what is tolerable, what is done until it break the camel's back(while the lotr movies were fine, the hobbit trilogy broke the camel back imo).

    From what they said about the series, is debatable if it can even be called an adaptation, since most of what i read about it, is they making something "new" with some plot points from the appendix B and the movies(?)

    Now, this is personal, i would like more something made with new characters, and a new adventure done in the tolkien universe, where they don't use the character he created or using ones he vaguely talk about it, like a story about some random group with the blue wizards against a necromancer or a dragon in some corner of middle earth, or some shit like that.
    A lot of what Tolkien wrote about Middle Earth comes in broad strokes and he left unpublished many contradictory accounts. We know broadly what happened in the Second Age but exact events are not set in stone. In one of his letters Tolkien wrote;

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolkien
    I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story - the larger founded on the lesser in contact with the earth, the lesser drawing splendour from the vast backcloths - which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country. ... I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama.
    Now assuming "the elf lady" you are talking about is Galadriel, Christopher Tolkien wrote in the Unfinished Tales,
    There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies "embedded in the traditions"; or, to look at the matter from another point of view, that the role and importance of Galadriel only emerged slowly, and that her story underwent continual refashionings.
    In letters Tolkien called Galadriel an "Amazon," something he likened to a soldier. She was certainly active in combat during the First Age and it isn't hard to imagine this version of Galadriel continuing as a warrior through the conflicts of the Second. It's worth noting that all elven women will fight in defence but usually only the men will actually go forth in attack. Galadriel was noted as being more like a man in her pursuits, competing athletically and desiring to rule a region of her own in Middle Earth.

    Also don't be surprised to see her kicking major amounts of arse. The Sindar (elves like Legolas) were more powerful in those days, the Noldor (Galadriel's faction) were said to be as far above the Sindar as the Sindar were above men, and Galadriel was greatest of the Noldor.

  2. #1342
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    A lot of what Tolkien wrote about Middle Earth comes in broad strokes and he left unpublished many contradictory accounts. We know broadly what happened in the Second Age but exact events are not set in stone. In one of his letters Tolkien wrote;
    Ok, thats means people have enough unknowing work to do something new without butchering the events of the already know work.

    At least, thi is my take on this.

    Now assuming "the elf lady" you are talking about is Galadriel, Christopher Tolkien wrote in the Unfinished Tales,
    it seems like she will do her and Celeborn job, and have a different personality all together, that is going to be worse than aragorn changes, from what they told so far.

    Also don't be surprised to see her kicking major amounts of arse. The Sindar (elves like Legolas) were more powerful in those days, the Noldor (Galadriel's faction) were said to be as far above the Sindar as the Sindar were above men, and Galadriel was greatest of the Noldor.
    Meh, i don't think i will watch if its super elves story, not my cup of tea, i already eye-rolled hard with Peter Jackson boner for then in his trilogies, like out of nowhere those fuck coming to help in Rohan

  3. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I think what is hypocrital is to compare the amazon and Jackson work as the same thing/level.

    Just because they have "changes" don't mean they are he same, there is a gradient of how much is changed, how impactful the changes are and how those changes contradict the world/characters. Like, i understand they changed Aragorn from the books to the movies, but that seems to pale in comparison to what they are doing with the elf lady in the series.

    So, to me, in terms of adaptation, is all about a gradient, on what is tolerable, what is done until it break the camel's back(while the lotr movies were fine, the hobbit trilogy broke the camel back imo).

    From what they said about the series, is debatable if it can even be called an adaptation, since most of what i read about it, is they making something "new" with some plot points from the appendix B and the movies(?)

    Now, this is personal, i would like more something made with new characters, and a new adventure done in the tolkien universe, where they don't use the character he created or using ones he vaguely talk about it, like a story about some random group with the blue wizards against a necromancer or a dragon in some corner of middle earth, or some shit like that.
    Trying to make Galadrial into a warrior when she isn't one at all, just shows how little the people making this show care about staying authentic to Tolkien's work. Not to mention female dwarves have beards and they definitely don't have melanin because why would you if you lived in a fucking mountain for pretty much the entirety of your people's history? Like if they wanted to pander their diversity policies even harder they should have just done a Haradrim story since they are the only race of people in Middle Earth that aren't white. And frankly I'd be cool with that because Far Harad and the Haradrim have a pretty open ended story that could be explored involving their subjugation by the Numenorians, their hatred of Gondor and their eventual fall into servitude to Sauron during the War of the Ring in the Third Age.

  4. #1344
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Trying to make Galadrial into a warrior when she isn't one at all, just shows how little the people making this show care about staying authentic to Tolkien's work. Not to mention female dwarves have beards and they definitely don't have melanin because why would you if you lived in a fucking mountain for pretty much the entirety of your people's history? Like if they wanted to pander their diversity policies even harder they should have just done a Haradrim story since they are the only race of people in Middle Earth that aren't white. And frankly I'd be cool with that because Far Harad and the Haradrim have a pretty open ended story that could be explored involving their subjugation by the Numenorians, their hatred of Gondor and their eventual fall into servitude to Sauron during the War of the Ring in the Third Age.
    As I mentioned, there is plenty in Tolkien's notes to justify Galadriel being portrayed as a warrior, and he also wrote a list of who in Middle Earth has beards which specified all MALE dwarves. Not saying you do this, but it'd an awesome example of people having a double-standard for the Peter Jackson movies.

    BTW melanin probably doesn't work the same in Arda as it does in reality, humans and elves are sentient components of a song, dwarves were handcrafted by Aule and the sun is a piece of fruit. There's no good reason to forbid people with darker skin tones from playing certain roles unless, for some reason, you get upset about seeing them and have to whine about diversity policies or whatever.

  5. #1345
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    As I mentioned, there is plenty in Tolkien's notes to justify Galadriel being portrayed as a warrior, and he also wrote a list of who in Middle Earth has beards which specified all MALE dwarves. Not saying you do this, but it'd an awesome example of people having a double-standard for the Peter Jackson movies.

    BTW melanin probably doesn't work the same in Arda as it does in reality, humans and elves are sentient components of a song, dwarves were handcrafted by Aule and the sun is a piece of fruit. There's no good reason to forbid people with darker skin tones from playing certain roles unless, for some reason, you get upset about seeing them and have to whine about diversity policies or whatever.
    No there isnt plenty, there is one mention of it, and considering all the printed material contradicts that and makes her more of a mentor/teacher/leader (outside of war) we should go with that style of Galadrial, not this one time mentioned style of Galadrial. Not to mention so many other issues, like the lack of Celeborn (you know that pesky husband she went everywhere with), the condensing of thousands of years into what a few years they said, and the creation of a new race that didn't exist (harfoots). Oh and if you are okay with black insert non man race, have to accept that the creators of rings of powers are either racist or completely okay with the genocide of all of them considering they don't exist by the time of the lotr.

    There is no reason to completely change the lore to insert darker skin tones unless you ONLY care about race because you are a racist (see that stupid ass logic).

    When I was a kid we didn't need people to be cardboard cut outs to enjoy them/pretend to be them, hell I loved to be Blade because he was a badass. Instead we are raising people to focus solely on skin, and if someone doesn't share every single characteristic with you, guess you can't pretend to be them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  6. #1346
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    No there isnt plenty, there is one mention of it, and considering all the printed material contradicts that and makes her more of a mentor/teacher/leader (outside of war) we should go with that style of Galadrial, not this one time mentioned style of Galadrial.
    You know that Tolkien only actually released 3 books set in Middle Earth, and two of those were retconned in after writing? And Galadriel only shows up in one? And that Galadriel in LotR is thousands of years older than the one in the Second Age, having settled into her role as ruler of Lothlorien after the start if the Third Age? All the other printed material is compilations of his notes, letters and unfinished tales which can be wildly contradictory, but the character of a warrior women (or Amazon as Tolkien described her) is definitely what he was working towards.

    Not to mention so many other issues, like the lack of Celeborn (you know that pesky husband she went everywhere with).
    Which Celeborn? Tolkien wrote several versions, do you want the one who came with her from Valinor, the one she met in the First Age or the one she met towards the end of the Second?

    Oh and if you are okay with black insert non man race, have to accept that the creators of rings of powers are either racist or completely okay with the genocide of all of them considering they don't exist by the time of the lotr.
    That's completely stupid.

    There is no reason to completely change the lore to insert darker skin tones unless you ONLY care about race because you are a racist (see that stupid ass logic).
    Skin tone of elves and dwarves has about zero effect on the lore, it just means that the creators don't think that skin colour is a good reason for forbidding actors from playing those roles.

    When I was a kid we didn't need people to be cardboard cut outs to enjoy them/pretend to be them, hell I loved to be Blade because he was a badass. Instead we are raising people to focus solely on skin, and if someone doesn't share every single characteristic with you, guess you can't pretend to be them.
    For someone trying to say that skin tone shouldn't matter you seem to be getting really upset about skin tone while spewing nonsense.

  7. #1347
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    ...
    You disproved none of my points. But whatever you want as long as you get what you want fuck the written word I guess. Even going so far to be cute with Celeborn. No wonder I had you ignored, back to that, ain't got time for that level of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  8. #1348
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Snip
    Man as some one who’s not at all invested in LoTR coming back to this thread is always a wild wide it’s the same people complaining about how it goes against Tolkien‘s work with nothing to back it up only to get continually smacked down by more informed people and then to run away and repeat it in a few months.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    You disproved none of my points. But whatever you want as long as you get what you want fuck the written word I guess. Even going so far to be cute with Celeborn. No wonder I had you ignored, back to that, ain't got time for that level of ignorance.
    I'm not saying "fuck the written word," I'm explaining that there are lots of conflicting written words and no obligation for the show to follow the parts you have decided you prefer.

  10. #1350
    It would honestly be fascinating to have a series set in Harad could focus on how the Southrons ended up allying with Sauron.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    These era elves are supposed to be looking young, yes.

    In the beginning, men and elves were immortal. Men sinned (by worshipping Morgoth and blaspheming against Eru) and were thus were cursed and became frail and had short lifespans. Elves didn't. However, Morgoth imbued the whole world with a little bit of his being. A person who eats an apple consumes a tiny bit of Morgoth's evil. These trace amounts of corruption are so small that they weren't apparent early on. However, by the time of LotR (set at the end of the Third Age), the effects of thousands of years of accumulated corruption starts becoming noticeable on the elves. This show takes place during the Second Age so the accumulated corruption shouldn't be noticeable yet.
    Almoust everything you just said is wrong to a point of nausea
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

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  12. #1352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Almoust everything you just said is wrong to a point of nausea
    And yet you failed to debunk what he said, so the only fool here is you.

  13. #1353
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    And yet you failed to debunk what he said, so the only fool here is you.
    another poster seems to have done that already.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53799677
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Man as some one who’s not at all invested in LoTR coming back to this thread is always a wild wide it’s the same people complaining about how it goes against Tolkien‘s work with nothing to back it up only to get continually smacked down by more informed people and then to run away and repeat it in a few months.
    thats how I feel about Star wars. havent even seen the original 3 movies but love watching the fan rage, way more entertaining than the series itself.

  15. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    John Hurt still the best Aragorn... fite me :P



    Who was drawn as a Native American I may add lol
    Nothing says "Native American" like being voiced by a White Englishman.
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  16. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Nothing says "Native American" like being voiced by a White Englishman.
    as is the way
    I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW

    Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance

  17. #1357
    Can't wait to see strong Orc women showing Elves and Humans who's boss.
    https://www.ign.com/articles/rings-of-power-female-orcs
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  18. #1358
    hmf...I wonder if they'll remember that orcs don't like light.

  19. #1359
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Can't wait to see strong Orc women showing Elves and Humans who's boss.
    https://www.ign.com/articles/rings-of-power-female-orcs
    I wanted to reply with something cheeky to your joke, yet the reality is you're probably exactly right.

    I bet they're absolutely going to make sympathetic orcs and use them to allude to current real world politics, like they are oppressed persons or something.

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    I wanted to reply with something cheeky to your joke, yet the reality is you're probably exactly right.

    I bet they're absolutely going to make sympathetic orcs and use them to allude to current real world politics, like they are oppressed persons or something.
    Yeah when they talk about great scenes with women orcs somehow I doubt they are going to make them pure evil unfortunately even though they should be after being twisted.

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