Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

Can we finally stop pretending that no borrowed power means not much testing required? That's nonsense.

It's no about that. It needs testing, but it's also 'safe' and not controversial. Most stuff in DF won't cause uproar that cause dev watercooler that cause new iteration of system that cause bigger or smaller uproar that cause dev watercooler... it could last month like with soulbinds.

Only thing that has potential for that is dragon riding, Blizzard could came out with something grindy and stupid here that will require more iterations. But for example I think testing stuff like new renown style reputations will be easy.

Another thing is that Blizzard were always far from efficient during Alpha/Beta, in Legion it took months to even launch all specs. So there is room to improve. We will see, without first few Alpha builds we can't really judge.

[rhorle]

What specifically you are considering 'content' from the Garrison? The profession mat farm? The hunting down building upgrades and stuff? The mounts?As you've pointed out, "Order Hall and Covenant" content-wise are still in, just not named that. Renown is renown and there are quest lines attached to the Dragonflight version of renown based on you working deeper into the faction. (read: campaigns).

It is obvious what content garrisons, order halls, and covenants added. I'm not sure you honestly don't know so I don't think I need to actually list out all of the content provided by those things. I've also never said order hall and covenant stuff is still in. Even Blizzard hasn't said that it is. All they said was that Renown is being used in place of reputation for main factions. They said this is so they can reward better/faster rather then locking everything behind friendly, revered, exalted, etc. That isn't "covenant and order hall" content in the slightest.

We don't know what Dragonriding will cover so it is silly to say that it will even come close to the mission table. You even basically say it isn't the mission table while still trying to cram it into that void. Racing has been done before. Puzzles have been done before. As you say they seem to be basing it similar to zerith mortis which is covenant agnostic. There isn't a central dump of content related to and there just to support a Covenant, Order Hall, or Garrison like we've seen in the past. Hence why I said it might be more like the boat in BfA which had little content attached to it and could have been removed with no real effect on the game or quests.

Of course Dragonriding will offer content and things to do. But will that be as expansive as systems in the past? Or will it just be an expanded Netherwing Ledge and Cloud Serpent quest hub?

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That doesn't mean you should stop character progression completely you reach max level.

The problem with that is you either have borrowed power or bloat. You have to pick one. Will the community that hates borrowed power be happy with being forced to grind for that progression to be competitive? Will the next expansion reset values or will it be required to grind out that stuff? Will catch up mechanics exist to give those who don't play much a free boost or will they fall further behind because they haven't progressed?

There are problems with the eternal character progression systems that come into play if you don't reset it. It is also weird for you to say that they could have gathered all the feedback and made something good. What if they did gather the feedback and that is exactly what they did? Made something based on it? This is the problem when people use such general arguments about feedback or Blizzard listening. They have listened. They have used feedback. They just didn't do exactly what you want so they are somehow still bad.

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THEY ENJOY

If they know they will enjoy the game anyways then what is wrong with them spending their money now vs closer to launch? You keep insulting people simply because they have a different opinion of the product then you do. It is their money. Let them spend it how they want to, right? Are some addicted? Probably. Do majority likely know what they enjoy and made an informed decision? Certainly. Will some regret it? Likely.

[Nymrohd]

Why launch a game with 3 half baked features when you can just introduce those features in a patch fully polished. DF is going to be a much better expansion in terms of character upkeep.

I can't wait to actually play my alts and not have to farm for weeks to get an ability working with a piece of gear

At the same time I hope there is something for my alts to do than repeat the same content.

[MightyWarrior]

Alpha servers are up! HYPE

[Alexjimithing]

alpha servers are up! Hype

lets fucking go

E: LIAR

[Ersula]

Alpha servers are up! HYPE

Why do you lie to us?

[unbrained]

don´t lie to us!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Alpha servers are up! HYPE

You are not funny.

[MightyWarrior]

Shame on you liar

[Aucald]

Encrypted alpha versions of the 10.0 client have actually been up on the WoW Dev branch since April. 10.0 build 43342 was up on 4/22/22, build 44167 on 6/14/22, and build 44275 just two days ago. Nothing is known of these clients aside from what's been shown in Blizzard's own gameplay and cinematic releases, though. An actual playable alpha or beta version will probably appear in a month or so.

[Luck4]

I think it's insane that so many people truly believe that Dragonflight doesn't need to be tested much.

I mean, they're revamping the talent system into a tree, which is a lot more complex and can change the classes and the overall gameplay dramatically. The talent tree can end up being more challenging to balance than any borrowed power we had previously.

The new crafting system can also make or break the game if it's not tested and implemented correctly, there's a reason why crafting in WoW was irrelevant for so many years.

Also, let's not forget the new reputation system, which while they said is based on renown, players have no clue of how exactly it's gonna work with reputations.

And there are also the bugs, yeah, did you guys forget how bad the Battle for Azeroth launch was due to bugs not fixed in beta?
The "Beta for Azeroth" meme happened for a reason, and this was before all the RNG bloat, AP, Azerite Gear, Essences, Corruption, and the endless grind problems.

I mean, come on guys, this is not pessimism, it's just awareness of what happened in the last four years...

[rhorle]

I think it's insane that so many people truly believe that Dragonflight doesn't need to be tested much.

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster? Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly. If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primary factor.

All a quick alpha/beta means is that there isn't much time for Blizzard to come up with a plan B. For example when they redid Jade Forest late in Beta.

[Ferlion]

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster? Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly. If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primarly factor.

All a quick alpha/beta means is that there isn't much time for Blizzard to come up with a plan B. For example when they redid Jade Forest late in Beta.

Also, just from a purely balance stand point, even having to redo all the talents is less balance and testing work than introducing legendary items, then conduits, then a third system, etc.

It's so easy for things to spiral out of control when you have three different external things that interact with a specific ability. It multiples the work by a whole bunch.

Talent trees are not the big ask people are treating it as.

[UndedoKoleda]

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster? Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly. If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primarly factor.

All a quick alpha/beta means is that there isn't much time for Blizzard to come up with a plan B. For example when they redid Jade Forest late in Beta.

Testing can occur faster, no doubt. Everything(or close to everything) can probably be tested in a month or so, however the question is- can Blizzard fix every reported bug and handle all the feedback on balance and other gameplay elements, in the said month?

[Makabreska]

Also, just from a purely balance stand point, even having to redo all the talents is less balance and testing work than introducing legendary items, then conduits, then a third system, etc.

It's so easy for things to spiral out of control when you have three different external things that interact with a specific ability. It multiples the work by a whole bunch.

Talent trees are not the big ask people are treating it as.

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one and make them interact directly. So I don't think it is easier.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one and make them interact directly. So I don't think it is easier.

Well if there's a lot of messing with them yeah its not easy but fitting them into the massive puzzle that is WoW is probably easier then...doing a talent revamp along with a system that interacts with them.

[rhorle]

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one. So I don't think it is easier.

Sure but most of the talent trees are made up of existing things. So moving it from UI A to UI B isn't much of a change. They do need to test the balance of various paths or at least the "main" ones they envision a class to take. Since they have stated that not every path will be viable and that a lot of points are spent in "required" paths/talents.

Also can't they test most talent balance with simulations? So when players are testing it is basically just double checking the in-house simcraft results and the rotations/playstyle in action.

[Luck4]

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster?

First, I think six months is a good beta time frame, but not even alpha started yet, and if we take into account the holiday season and the pre-expansion event, we're talking five-ish months until the expansion release. Beta could be just three months, or four months if we're lucky,

And considering Blizzard's track record of previous expansions, any player power system needs to be deeply tested, otherwise, some classes can become utterly useless while others could become extremely broken.

Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly.

This I can agree with, but again we've no proof that this beta will be any different than the previous ones. I mean, if they're so far ahead why are they taking so long to show us the remaining talent trees?

If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primary factor.

Yeah, I agree that questing and leveling can be tested in-house, but they never did this before, and we don't know if they're going to do this now, so I still think it's worrisome.

[rhorle]

First, I think six months is a good beta time frame, but not even alpha started yet

But why? What content specifically requires a long period of testing? Most Alpha and Beta tests don't test things that entire period. The testing happens in batches around when Blizzard releases content. There is no reason to assume a shorter testing phase will be bad. Can it be bad? Sure. So can a longer beta phase as people have always been unhappy about things and MoP for example launched with the awful gyrocopter bottleneck so things don't always get caught.

Also them not releasing info doesn't mean it is not ready to be tested. It just means they don't want to release the info for whatever reason. Which happens for every game and every testing cycle. Things are released when ever they feel like it and not the moment it exists.

[klaps_05]

Ppl focused on DF a lot, but how is season 4 gonna work for guilds on lower schedule like 4/3 days? Having a progression week once in 3 weeks? Or will all guilds just not bother with season 4?