What if the Horde quests were written like Alliance quests ?

[Loreth88]

I am willing to lose Orgrimmar if it means we get or lore characters and leaders back. I have no physical attachment to any of the Kalimdor Horde settlements.

The truth is u lose only 1 of your leaders and he is Vol'jin. Lose Garrosh who is not really a leader just a replacement and the original is there, they don't really wanna change him, but he need a bigger scene and can go back (and He is back). Cairne never do anything and he have a morally same replacement, his own son. You not lose Sylvanas she just in to many movies so she is in deserved vacation. Allliance lose 1 dwarf king and get his daughter in his place so its fine, Like Varian his son follow him, so not really lose any Leader. (I Hate Anduin as a leader) Or who u wanna get Back really?
But the truth to be told i want the alliance the aggressor and u lose OG, but i wanna see that in game not in a book and the way a Horde got this wins without any consequence.

[loras]

That way, the massacre of native populations wouldn't look so dramatic and we wouldn't make such a fuss about it. It'd be considered a mild inconvenience at best.

There's a lot of reasons to kill people, for example they spoil the fishing pond you planned to go to once you retire.



There's the classic outsourcing of production. They produce the goods and you pay them in stabbings.



Nature is a wonderful thing, you can use it to justify a specific number of kills !



But in all honesty this isn't really new. Most quests regarding quillboars and centaurs are about killing your pesky neighbors. And if the quest giver is a goblin or an undead, there's a good chance you'll be tasked with organ harvesting or redistribution of resources.

(Characters name are not mine, I just took screens from a variety of walk-through videos)

Oh my, do you really mean to imply beasts and near-beasts are treated as such? How strange. Totally not one of the most realistic aspects of Warcraft in its entirety.

You do make some point though: Perhaps the horde should be treated more like the beasts they are.

[Grazrug]

The truth is u lose only 1 of your leaders and he is Vol'jin. Lose Garrosh who is not really a leader just a replacement and the original is there, they don't really wanna change him, but he need a bigger scene and can go back (and He is back). Cairne never do anything and he have a morally same replacement, his own son. You not lose Sylvanas she just in to many movies so she is in deserved vacation. Allliance lose 1 dwarf king and get his daughter in his place so its fine, Like Varian his son follow him, so not really lose any Leader. (I Hate Anduin as a leader) Or who u wanna get Back really?
But the truth to be told i want the alliance the aggressor and u lose OG, but i wanna see that in game not in a book and the way a Horde got this wins without any consequence.

You downplay the alliance victories and the Horde's losses. Stop looking through blue tinted glasses. The Horde suffered much more then the alliance since TBC.

[DatToffer]

Oh my, do you really mean to imply beasts and near-beasts are treated as such? How strange. Totally not one of the most realistic aspects of Warcraft in its entirety.

You do make some point though: Perhaps the horde should be treated more like the beasts they are.

That's kinda what everyone is waiting for yeah. At least the fight of the Horde wouldn't feel so empty and vain;

[VladlTutushkin]

I am willing to lose Orgrimmar if it means we get or lore characters and leaders back. I have no physical attachment to any of the Kalimdor Horde settlements.

Yeah but those characters will be eternally cucked and sign shitty deals with Alliance DESPIE losing settlements and being humiliated and also subjected to war crimes and genocide.

Because thats what Alliance leaders always do.

Oh and you will have to sacrifice what you HAVE attachment to. So Silvermoon will be voided by Alleria and then Horde will forgive her for that after she explains that Void made her do that.

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That's kinda what everyone is waiting for yeah. At least the fight of the Horde wouldn't feel so empty and vain;

Horde is empty concept as is, since inception. Its basically "we exist to make Alliance life less bearable every day for no good reason" type of Saturday villainy. Take away Alliance and Horde will collapse on itself , descend into multiple civil wars and end up turning Azeroth into Outland 2.0.

But Alliance should have stopped treating them as misguided but dear friends after fucken Cata, let alone Pandaria and BfA.

[DatToffer]

Horde is empty concept as is, since inception. Its basically "we exist to make Alliance life less bearable every day for no good reason" type of Saturday villainy. Take away Alliance and Horde will collapse on itself , descend into multiple civil wars and end up turning Azeroth into Outland 2.0.

But Alliance should have stopped treating them as misguided but dear friends after fucken Cata, let alone Pandaria and BfA.

Wah, your hatred is up another lvl. Congrats, you can change your username to reflect your evolution as a new Pokemon.

[The Stormbringer]

"Can", yes. But they never will. You just get a throwaway tweet or sentence in a book that you won, but it will never be shown in the game. The game will only show you that you either lost or managed to be 50/50. Cata really had a hate boner for alliance questing. You nearly never win anything important.

Cata also showed its bias by giving the Goblins a city and a fuckload of towns, while the Worgen got... a couple of outposts and a small village. Their excuse was that "Goblins build stuff super fast!" Are you telling me that super-human wolf-men who can leap buildings aren't capable of building fast? I imagine a single Worgen would be able to do the work of three-men, without any scaffolding or other safety equipment!

[VladlTutushkin]

Wah, your hatred is up another lvl. Congrats, you can change your username to reflect your evolution as a new Pokemon.

The hell you even on about? And where am i wrong? Its literally in the lore - if Horde wins against Alliance it will eventually destroy itself, and then Azeroth will be doomed.

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Cata also showed its bias by giving the Goblins a city and a fuckload of towns, while the Worgen got... a couple of outposts and a small village.

They got a village? Well thats news to me.

[The Stormbringer]

They got a village? Well thats news to me.

It's in the Blasted Lands. It's a small village and questing hub called "Surwich". And when I say small I mean like... 5-ish NPcs? Not including the flight-master.

[DatToffer]

The hell you even on about? And where am i wrong? Its literally in the lore - if Horde wins against Alliance it will eventually destroy itself, and then Azeroth will be doomed.

They got a village? Well thats news to me.

This thread was supposed to be lighthearted fun and at the very least food for thoughts, not really a bait for Alliance whiners.

But you're always the most funny butterfly in the net. Simultaneously quoting lore that doesn't exist and admitting you don't even know it, you're a great performance.

[VladlTutushkin]

It's in the Blasted Lands. It's a small village and questing hub called "Surwich". And when I say small I mean like... 5-ish NPcs? Not including the flight-master.

Yeah now i remember, no surprise i forgot about it. Way to make something irrelevant - put it in Blasted Lands.

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This thread was supposed to be lighthearted fun and at the very least food for thoughts, not really a bait for Alliance whiners.

But you're always the most funny butterfly in the net. Simultaneously quoting lore that doesn't exist and admitting you don't even know it, you're a great performance.

I havent played WoW for more then three years now, oh how terrible that i forgot about worgen village that remained irrelevant since inception.

Also "quoting lore that does not exist" is rich coming from the Horde fan. The whole "both factions are equally bad" idea that Horde propagates is based on lore that does not exist and headcanons.

[DatToffer]

I havent played WoW for more then three years now, oh how terrible that i forgot about worgen village that remained irrelevant since inception.

Yeah, that's properly scandalous that you don't know about a remote village introduced twelve years ago in a wildly unpopular quest zone ! I don't know what's more concerning though. Not being able to move on from a game you left three years ago or not knowing your dearest faction ?

Also "quoting lore that does not exist" is rich coming from the Horde fan. The whole "both factions are equally bad" idea that Horde propagates is based on lore that does not exist and headcanons.

I don't think both factions are equally bad. I think the Horde is just better at being unapologetically bad. But that's kinda the problem, the Horde has either apologized too much or been forgiven too much (depending on the pov) and it kinda lost the flavor. Which is why the Alliance getting a good shot at being bad would be cool too.

[VladlTutushkin]

Yeah, that's properly scandalous that you don't know about a remote village introduced twelve years ago in a wildly unpopular quest zone ! I don't know what's more concerning though. Not being able to move on from a game you left three years ago or not knowing your dearest faction ?



I don't think both factions are equally bad. I think the Horde is just better at being unapologetically bad. But that's kinda the problem, the Horde has either apologized too much or been forgiven too much (depending on the pov) and it kinda lost the flavor. Which is why the Alliance getting a good shot at being bad would be cool too.

Truly unheard of that i would forget about a village that was created in Cata in a Vanilla/TBC zone with zero information on it given in Gilnean quests and just really it being as hidden as needle in a haystack of overlapping layers (BC, WoD).

If Alliance gets a shot at "being bad" it should get 100% Horde treatment , straight up to devs slandering other faction at cons to hype up the expansion.

[DatToffer]

Truly unheard of that i would forget about a village that was created in Cata in a Vanilla/TBC zone with zero information on it given in Gilnean quests and just really it being as hidden as needle in a haystack of overlapping layers (BC, WoD).

If Alliance gets a shot at "being bad" it should get 100% Horde treatment , straight up to devs slandering other faction at cons to hype up the expansion.

Oh yeah, let's do that and more. Let's have the bad Alliance guy burning Stormwind to the ground so the Horde can't take it. But then next expansion, we'll get a questline where the Alliance leaders reunite with the Defias Brotherhood to rebuild the city. Even better, the Horde asks the PC to spy on the progress and he ends up paying for the repair !

[VladlTutushkin]

Oh yeah, let's do that and more. Let's have the bad Alliance guy burning Stormwind to the ground so the Horde can't take it. But then next expansion, we'll get a questline where the Alliance leaders reunite with the Defias Brotherhood to rebuild the city. Even better, the Horde asks the PC to spy on the progress and he ends up paying for the repair !

Yeah. And that Alliance guy ends up "on ice" with enough wink and tongue in cheek from the writers to be sure that he will be back in a hot second with some dramatic Marvel'esque scene.

And of course Horde will pay for Stormwind repairs while tauren live in goblin slums.

[wushootaki]

The truth is u lose only 1 of your leaders and he is Vol'jin. Lose Garrosh who is not really a leader just a replacement and the original is there, they don't really wanna change him, but he need a bigger scene and can go back (and He is back). Cairne never do anything and he have a morally same replacement, his own son. You not lose Sylvanas she just in to many movies so she is in deserved vacation. Allliance lose 1 dwarf king and get his daughter in his place so its fine, Like Varian his son follow him, so not really lose any Leader. (I Hate Anduin as a leader) Or who u wanna get Back really?
But the truth to be told i want the alliance the aggressor and u lose OG, but i wanna see that in game not in a book and the way a Horde got this wins without any consequence.

Notable Horde-themed franchise characters that the playable Horde has lost since WoW started

- Kargath Bladefist (literally has a settlement named after him)
- Cairne Bloodhoof (Magni came back, albeit neutral)
- Zul'jin (Revantusk talked nonstop about him returning during vanilla, got villain batted because we got elves)
- Vol'jin
- Cho'gall
- Garrosh Hellscream

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Notable Horde-themed franchise characters that the playable Horde has lost since WoW started

- Kargath Bladefist (literally has a settlement named after him)
- Cairne Bloodhoof (Magni came back, albeit neutral)
- Zul'jin (Revantusk talked nonstop about him returning during vanilla, got villain batted because we got elves)
- Vol'jin
- Cho'gall
- Garrosh Hellscream

- Saurfang Jr (Bolvar returned and became the new neutral Lich King)



Biggest problem is that when they remove characters from Horde, they don't build up others in their place.

When Vol'jin was killed, they didn't even have a replacement. We found out Rokhan was made leader on the website, rather than anything in game. At least they have pushed some other trolls of note forward with Zappyboi.

But still nowhere near the level of characters that are brought back into the fold for alliance

Falstad, Alleria, Turalyon, etc.


Meanwhile, characters like Jorin Deadeye are left to rot instead of being built up. We are literally getting an Alliance character as the new leader of the Forsaken (Calia Menethil) - give me a break... But its because there are no notable forsaken outside Sylvannas. Lilian is the closest thing, and even she doesn't make sense as she runs away from the Forsaken in the questing and decides to forge her own path... then in BFA is...randomly back and pro-Forsaken (is she uncrowned?)

[VladlTutushkin]

Notable Horde-themed franchise characters that the playable Horde has lost since WoW started

- Kargath Bladefist (literally has a settlement named after him)
- Cairne Bloodhoof (Magni came back, albeit neutral)
- Zul'jin (Revantusk talked nonstop about him returning during vanilla, got villain batted because we got elves)
- Vol'jin
- Cho'gall
- Garrosh Hellscream

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- Saurfang Jr (Bolvar returned and became the new neutral Lich King)



Biggest problem is that when they remove characters from Horde, they don't build up others in their place.

When Vol'jin was killed, they didn't even have a replacement. We found out Rokhan was made leader on the website, rather than anything in game. At least they have pushed some other trolls of note forward with Zappyboi.

But still nowhere near the level of characters that are brought back into the fold for alliance

Falstad, Alleria, Turalyon, etc.


Meanwhile, characters like Jorin Deadeye are left to rot instead of being built up. We are literally getting an Alliance character as the new leader of the Forsaken (Calia Menethil) - give me a break... But its because there are no notable forsaken outside Sylvannas. Lilian is the closest thing, and even she doesn't make sense as she runs away from the Forsaken in the questing and decides to forge her own path... then in BFA is...randomly back and pro-Forsaken (is she uncrowned?)

And when they remove cities and zones from Alliance they do not build up new ones so... You know, equal exchange.

[DatToffer]

Yeah. And that Alliance guy ends up "on ice" with enough wink and tongue in cheek from the writers to be sure that he will be back in a hot second with some dramatic Marvel'esque scene.

And of course Horde will pay for Stormwind repairs while tauren live in goblin slums.

But it's gonna be okay because Baine has learned the virtue of Patience from the Earth Mother itself. And so he received a magical pebble that's gonna be relevant in two or three expansions "when the time is right". And instead of taking the life of the big bad Alliance guy, he condemned him to... Fix the damages of the Cataclysm. From Deepholm.

That seems about right.

[Nynax]

Teldrassil and Theramore aren’t coming back. In BfA beta they were also planning to flood Boralus.

If the script were flipped Horde leaders would become neutral, questlines would remain incomplete or become comedic, Horde would lose any sense of victory. Horde would gain closure amongst its characters, build relationships with world and interplanetary factions, gain popular and respected villains.

Might be a bit premature to make this statement, now.

[VladlTutushkin]

But it's gonna be okay because Baine has learned the virtue of Patience from the Earth Mother itself. And so he received a magical pebble that's gonna be relevant in two or three expansions "when the time is right". And instead of taking the life of the big bad Alliance guy, he condemned him to... Fix the damages of the Cataclysm. From Deepholm.

That seems about right.

Of course. Also Alliance shifts ALL the blame on that character, even when local commanders and soldiers eagerly went to commit atrocities even without direct orders just because they got kicks from it. And then that character gets absolved of blame... because they were mind controlled (but not really). But then they just absolved no matter what.

As for other Alliance commanders and etc they were no controlled in any way... But get the same treatment of forgiveness as if they were all under influence.