Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Tyris Flare]

This feels like another rebuke of the toxic fans meme. Sure, there are unpleasable nitpickers (many on this very forum), but it turns out that if you make a show your audience wants to see, it isn't profitable to trash it on youtube for clicks. Folks just...like it.

IDK, maybe instead of a blaming things on an imaginary racist mob, Discovery and Picard actually just sucked. Makes you think.

[Glorious Leader]

This feels like another rebuke of the toxic fans meme. Sure, there are unpleasable nitpickers (many on this very forum), but it turns out that if you make a show your audience wants to see, it isn't profitable to trash it on youtube for clicks. Folks just...like it.

IDK, maybe instead of a blaming things on an imaginary racist mob, Discovery and Picard actually just sucked. Makes you think.

They sucked and it had nothing to do with politics. The writing was bad and the characters sucked and none of it was star trek. People in picard vape.... thats not star trek man.

It makes no sense because for the most part snw is made by the same people you see the same long running list of producers. I'm convinced they watched enough internet criticism about how bad picard was and why it was bad and made a show with that in mind.

[Myradin]

They sucked and it had nothing to do with politics. The writing was bad and the characters sucked and none of it was star trek. People in picard vape.... thats not star trek man.

It makes no sense because for the most part snw is made by the same people you see the same long running list of producers. I'm convinced they watched enough internet criticism about how bad picard was and why it was bad and made a show with that in mind.

I think to a certain extent picard's issue is that its patrick stewart's passion project. Every indication he has a lot of creative control.

Discovery season 4 was definitely moving back into a classic trek feel. We went from screaming babies and evil galaxy destroying ai's, to a story about first contact with an alien entity.

That and maybe the writers are just bad at stretching a story over 10 eps, as opposed to telling it briefly in 60min.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

They sucked and it had nothing to do with politics. The writing was bad and the characters sucked and none of it was star trek. People in picard vape.... thats not star trek man.

It makes no sense because for the most part snw is made by the same people you see the same long running list of producers. I'm convinced they watched enough internet criticism about how bad picard was and why it was bad and made a show with that in mind.

It's clearly a major adjustment! Dunno, I'll take it as a victory. Not a fan of Kurtzman et al, but hey if they can actually respond and deliver then it's whatever to me.

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I think to a certain extent picard's issue is that its patrick stewart's passion project. Every indication he has a lot of creative control.

Discovery season 4 was definitely moving back into a classic trek feel. We went from screaming babies and evil galaxy destroying ai's, to a story about first contact with an alien entity.

That and maybe the writers are just bad at stretching a story over 10 eps, as opposed to telling it briefly in 60min.

I bet this is right. His character transformation started in Nemesis and was pretty cringey even then!

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I mean this is what I want from a Star Trek show. Granted I wish they would just move forward and place it sometime after the TNG era and just continue the stories and not constantly do the prequal thing but this is what I like from Star Trek shows. Basic episodes that boil down to being more about a crew interacting/figuring things out in a sci-fi environment. Not always the end of the universe stakes. Doesn't take itself to seriously all the time. Certainly has some serious moments still. Mostly episodic but a few threads that run though the episodes creating a semi-season arc.

[Mace]

I enjoyed this episode again, I've been enjoying all of them, I still don't think they're on par with the Nxt Gen/DS9, Voyager yet, nor craving for the next episode like I usually am for Discovery - but maybe they'll get there, still enjoy watching them every week though.

[Lex Icon]

i'm usually not a fan of the medieval episodes but this one was worth it to see Anson 's character xD

[VMSmith]

This feels like another rebuke of the toxic fans meme. Sure, there are unpleasable nitpickers (many on this very forum), but it turns out that if you make a show your audience wants to see, it isn't profitable to trash it on youtube for clicks. Folks just...like it.

IDK, maybe instead of a blaming things on an imaginary racist mob, Discovery and Picard actually just sucked. Makes you think.

I think it's more that Discovery and Picard were made for a different audience than the audience intended for SNW.

I agree that those two shows do not feel quite a lot like the Trek we had been used to, but that was likely intentional to appeal to a new audience. Maybe that was a good decision, maybe it wasn't. The only thing we know is that it was successful enough that we have five Trek shows right now and the existence of those two likely paved the way for the more classic-style SNW.

I don't think any of them are bad, per se, just intended for different audiences. And that can be a shock to the old audience.

[Glorious Leader]

It's clearly a major adjustment! Dunno, I'll take it as a victory. Not a fan of Kurtzman et al, but hey if they can actually respond and deliver then it's whatever to me.

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I bet this is right. His character transformation started in Nemesis and was pretty cringey even then!

It started in first contact when they tried to make it an action film and Frakes said this is what the fans want.

[Ringthane]

It started in first contact when they tried to make it an action film and Frakes said this is what the fans want.

Considering that First Contact is one of the most successful Star Trek films, I'd say he was right. Look at Wrath of Khan - wouldn't you say that was one of the more action-oriented films in the series? And look how well that did. Compare that to ST:TMP. How did that one do? How did Final Frontier do?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

I think fans (broadly speaking) like that kind of action. It just needs to be important and not gratuitous.

[SavoirFaire]

Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

I think fans (broadly speaking) like that kind of action. It just needs to be important and not gratuitous.

I think films lend themselves to a good two-parter type action episode of Trek. I also think, if you look at Nemesis, people try to cram action crap into it when it just doesn’t fit (ala the dune buggy thing). I felt Frakes walked that line really well in First Contact.

Holy crap First Contact was a bit over 25 years ago. Time for my daily dose of “damn I’m old”…

I really should go watch Khan again. If First Contact was 25 years ago I bet it’s been over 30 since I watched Khan…

[Glorious Leader]

Considering that First Contact is one of the most successful Star Trek films, I'd say he was right. Look at Wrath of Khan - wouldn't you say that was one of the more action-oriented films in the series? And look how well that did. Compare that to ST:TMP. How did that one do? How did Final Frontier do?

It ain't star trek pal. That isn't to say star trek can't have action. It just shouldn't have this.




yea yea now make a thousand excuses and justify it with dumb plot points.

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Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

I think fans (broadly speaking) like that kind of action. It just needs to be important and not gratuitous.

The first one is almost entirely cerebral with almost no.action. And was released right alongside star wars. Took alot of balls to not simple copy the trend

[Yakut]

Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

They literally made up his background with this season of the show. There's no ancient canon being changed (or suggested). Nothing. They randomly just decided to clone Kirk's background for him when there were tons of more creative options available, and even one of the myriad options there were only slightly different would have been preferred, such as the aforementioned idea of him being a hard-working farmer instead of a lazy rancher who likes horses.

Lay off the fucking drugs, man.

Actually, they're not making up his background in this season. It was done in 1966 in the original episode "The Cage" and cut in for "The Menagerie" in the original run. He was literally established as riding horses in quite literally the very first episode of Star Trek. That pilot was cancelled and they were forced to remake it with Kirk as captain.

Instead of considering it a change in the universe, they just made it earlier in the timeline via the court martial in the original series. So, I'm a little perplexed here. Do you know nothing of the show's history and are you making things up?

[VMSmith]

Yeah I don't think the films work as a comparison honestly, they are all kinda actiony. Just not JJ Abrams insane shaky cam explosions everywhere actiony.

Personally, I feel all the JJ movies are easily better than V, Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. I also like them better than III, First Contact and Khan, but not by much. Only Voyage Home, TMP, and Undiscovered Country are hands-down better, for me. And, even then, I think they stack up well. They're just different than old Trek, they're actually quite a lot more like SNW, in my opinion.

And the music and visuals for all three movies are pretty stellar, especially the visuals compared to any previous Trek movie.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Personally, I feel all the JJ movies are easily better than V, Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. I also like them better than III, First Contact and Khan, but not by much. Only Voyage Home, TMP, and Undiscovered Country are hands-down better, for me. And, even then, I think they stack up well. They're just different than old Trek, they're actually quite a lot more like SNW, in my opinion.

And the music and visuals for all three movies are pretty stellar, especially the visuals compared to any previous Trek movie.

Dunno, depends how much you like his style I suppose. I thought Into Darkness was like insultingly annoying/bad/stupid.

Beyond is also pretty stupid but I kind of enjoyed it anyway for some reason!

I am not a big fan of the TNG movies either, except First Contact. That one still has a lot of great moments (funny and otherwise) as well as an incredible Goldsmith score.

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The first one is almost entirely cerebral with almost no.action. And was released right alongside star wars. Took alot of balls to not simple copy the trend

Yeah but it's also the least popular by a longshot. You gotta make some sacrifices in genre fiction to get people to actually watch it. I think a lot of the movies get a pretty good mix. 2, 6, and 8 (the best, imo) have plenty of action but also lots of great character and drama moments!

[Ringthane]

It ain't star trek pal. That isn't to say star trek can't have action. It just shouldn't have this.




yea yea now make a thousand excuses and justify it with dumb plot points.

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The first one is almost entirely cerebral with almost no.action. And was released right alongside star wars. Took alot of balls to not simple copy the trend

No, I'm not going to play to your attention-seeking behavior. I'm just going to ask you - was James T. Kirk more cerebral or more a man of action?

Please think carefully before answering. I think even you will be able to come to the right conclusion.

Given that Rodenberry himself described Star Trek as a "western in space", who do you think you are to decide what is and isn't Star Trek because it's more action-oriented? Do you find westerns too cerebral? Does it excite you when the hero and the villain sit around and calmly negotiate how big the town actually is?

Oh, wait. They shoot at each other. Sounds pretty action-oriented, doesn't it?

You're so desperate to prove your point, you completely ignore the fact that Wrath of Khan isn't just about the awesome space battles. It's also about Kirk's fear of growing old, and Khan's obsession with punishing Kirk, and other, more cerebral things. And that First Contact isn't just "boom go Borg", it's also about Picard overcoming his prejudice and hatred of the Borg, and the crew of the Enterprise helping guide our materialistic, war-loving society into the peaceful, utopian future Rodenberry set up in TOS.

Yeah, you've missed all those things. And now, since I've so completely schooled you, I'm done with you. And you know what? That's one thing I won't miss.

[Glorious Leader]

No, I'm not going to play to your attention-seeking behavior. I'm just going to ask you - was James T. Kirk more cerebral or more a man of action?

Please think carefully before answering. I think even you will be able to come to the right conclusion.

Given that Rodenberry himself described Star Trek as a "western in space", who do you think you are to decide what is and isn't Star Trek because it's more action-oriented? Do you find westerns too cerebral? Does it excite you when the hero and the villain sit around and calmly negotiate how big the town actually is?

Oh, wait. They shoot at each other. Sounds pretty action-oriented, doesn't it?

You're so desperate to prove your point, you completely ignore the fact that Wrath of Khan isn't just about the awesome space battles. It's also about Kirk's fear of growing old, and Khan's obsession with punishing Kirk, and other, more cerebral things. And that First Contact isn't just "boom go Borg", it's also about Picard overcoming his prejudice and hatred of the Borg, and the crew of the Enterprise helping guide our materialistic, war-loving society into the peaceful, utopian future Rodenberry set up in TOS.

Yeah, you've missed all those things. And now, since I've so completely schooled you, I'm done with you. And you know what? That's one thing I won't miss.

I dont know man. The 60 year old (at the time) British actor who was expressly cast and written to be the opposite of kirk shouldn't be the above. But unfortunately he is. Actually worse than that because Kirk's most aggregious display of emotion was screaming Khan name. Star trek is a show about professionals acting professional under fire. In fact picard gives Wesley a lecture about actin under pressured. Thats picard reserved and stoic. Not that crap.

Now here's the thing I know I won't miss your asanine dribble because I'm going to block you. After I schooled you that is.

[Yakut]

I dont know man. The 60 year old (at the time) British actor who was expressly cast and written to be the opposite of kirk shouldn't be the above. But unfortunately he is. Actually worse than that because Kirk's most aggregious display of emotion was screaming Khan name. Star trek is a show about professionals acting professional under fire. In fact picard gives Wesley a lecture about actin under pressured. Thats picard reserved and stoic. Not that crap.

Shatner was notorious for overacting, especially in emotional scenes. It sounds generational to me with the younger crowd not knowing this detail.

Sir Patrick Stewart was chosen specifically because of his theater background and the fact he had great acting chops. His stoic portrayal was his choice. And he was in his 40s when cast as that was over 35 years ago now or he'd be more like 100 instead of 80-81ish.

But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. You got this.

[Glorious Leader]

Shatner was notorious for overacting, especially in emotional scenes. It sounds generational to me with the younger crowd not knowing this detail.

Sir Patrick Stewart was chosen specifically because of his theater background and the fact he had great acting chops. His stoic portrayal was his choice. And he was in his 40s when cast as that was over 35 years ago now or he'd be more like 100 instead of 80-81ish.

But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. You got this.

It wasnt a choice it was an experiment that's exactly why Riker exists and why his entire arc ends in best of both worlds.because the British diplomat experiment worked and they didn't need back up action man. Picard isn't kirk until the movies when they decide Picard needed to over act. And even that would make kirk blush because Picard screaming nooooo and smashing the shit out of his ship is over acting even for Shatner. Arguable the only thing similar is kirk screaming khan in wrath of khan.