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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You are either lying or mistaken. What you describe is not physically possible. It's certainly possible to GET TO a point where you play ~3 hours per week, but the idea that someone is clearing mythic and getting BiS by consistently playing ~3 hours per week is absurd.
    What do you mean... you just run some Mythic+. And I didn't say "BiS". I said way better than heroic raiding gear, which is enough to clear mythic raids if you actually want to as only the very last few bosses actually drop higher ilvl


    I'm not sure what you even mean by this.
    It means there is nothing in this game even wanting me to play this game for 10 hours (random number) a day or whatever so that I can't play other games.
    You can do some things on a weekly basis and those things are what get you forward.
    Playing a lot doesn't get you anywhere.
    So I don't understand how WoW is "constructed to be my only video game".

    I'm still only "friendly" with the new faction btw and I'm pretty sure next patch there will be a catch up for my legendary one way or another... at least that has been the case since forever now, it would be a new thing if that isn't the case.

    For 2 seasons I do absolutely *nothing* but log in on a specific day, do 4-5 mythic+ and log out.

    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    snip
    That video is super dishonest if you consider the context here in this thread.
    You have to do shit to do shit. That's the case in FFXIV as well. You don't just have "gil", you don't have just your gatherer up, you don't just get your gear from PvP. You also do shit there. I clear FFXIV savage every tier and *I* don't have Gil to buy gear. It's *way* too expensive to do so and it takes time and weeks before the prices fall down.

    What's the problem?

    When shadowlands came out, I did some mythics, then I did raids and mythic+ and mythic+ already outgeared heroic raids for me before my guild achieved curve... and I never even did multiple runs every week, very often I'd just do one.
    That's the point where I have more than enough gear to try out mythic raids and even clear it. It's just a question of playerskill at that point and no longer a question about how much time I'll invest in this game.

    Now, since I'm not raiding, I'm doing about 4 every week, but that's not necessary for the gear. I do it because I just like to do +20 etc.

    Legendaries take way less effort to farm up than tomestone gear in FFXIV.
    Conduits? A joke, you get them by the dozen in M+.
    Just below max level as well, or even maxlevel if you are good enough.
    I haven't touched Thorghast ever since.... I don't know... when did the doggo stuff come out for the first time in there? That's how long it has been. Maybe a year and a half or something?
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-06-24 at 05:40 PM.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    What do you mean... you just run some Mythic+. And I didn't say "BiS". I said way better than heroic raiding gear, which is enough to clear mythic raids if you actually want to as only the very last few bosses actually drop higher ilvl
    Im not sure we are talking about the same thing at this point. By the time M+ has paid off that kind of gear, you are way way way way way into the tier. If your argument is that after 3 months of +15 weekly chest rewards you will have good gear for mythic, sure, but I don't know what that has to do with what I said.

    It means there is nothing in this game even wanting me to play this game for 10 hours a day or whatever so that I can't play other games.
    You can do some things on a weekly basis and those things are what get you forward.
    Playing a lot doesn't get you anywhere.
    So I don't understand how WoW is "constructed to be my only video game".

    I'm still only "friendly" with the new faction btw and I'm pretty sure next patch there will be a catch up for my legendary one way or another... at least that has been the case since forever now, it would be a new thing if that isn't the case.
    The design punishes you very, very hard for falling behind, such as waiting a month to come in and try the new raid or get going in M+. You start off VERY substantially behind everyone else no matter what level you want to raid or do M+ at. None of this is debatable. You guys get so weird about this stuff. There are upsides to this design. It isn't even a value judgement. It's just a fact of how the game works and is designed.

    I don't know why it is so important to people like you to categorically deny basic, clear difference between two games. It's like you have some kind of chip on your shoulder and you can't stand to give even an inch. It honestly starts to feel like a defense mechanism after awhile.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    What do you mean... you just run some Mythic+. And I didn't say "BiS". I said way better than heroic raiding gear, which is enough to clear mythic raids if you actually want to as only the very last few bosses actually drop higher ilvl




    It means there is nothing in this game even wanting me to play this game for 10 hours (random number) a day or whatever so that I can't play other games.
    You can do some things on a weekly basis and those things are what get you forward.
    Playing a lot doesn't get you anywhere.
    So I don't understand how WoW is "constructed to be my only video game".

    I'm still only "friendly" with the new faction btw and I'm pretty sure next patch there will be a catch up for my legendary one way or another... at least that has been the case since forever now, it would be a new thing if that isn't the case.

    For 2 seasons I do absolutely *nothing* but log in on a specific day, do 4-5 mythic+ and log out.

    That video is super dishonest if you consider the context here in this thread.
    You have to do shit to do shit. That's the case in FFXIV as well. You don't just have "gil", you don't have just your gatherer up, you don't just get your gear from PvP. You also do shit there.
    What's the problem?
    When shadowlands came out, I did some mythics, then I did raids and mythic+ and mythic+ already outgeared heroic raids for me before my guild achieved curve... and I never even did multiple runs every week, very often I'd just do one.
    That's the point where I have more than enough gear to try out mythic raids and even clear it. It's just a question of playerskill at that point and no longer a question about how much time I'll invest in this game.

    Now, since I'm not raiding, I'm doing about 4 every week, but that's not necessary for the gear. I do it because I just like to do +20 etc.
    The problem is that ninespines is an nototious bootlicker for FF14. Nothing you say will make him admit he is wrong, and that FF14 is exactly the same as wow. Despite, you know, the creator of the game even admitting it is. Every single one of his perceived "issues" with wow are also present in FF14, b--bb-but its different because....it just is okay?

    Hell, Square enix is even copying the abusing of employees, but no one apparantly gives a fuck about that, its only bad whne blizz does it i suppose

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    That video is super dishonest if you consider the context here in this thread.
    You have to do shit to do shit. That's the case in FFXIV as well. You don't just have "gil", you don't have just your gatherer up, you don't just get your gear from PvP. You also do shit there.
    What's the problem?
    I have to assume the video is talking about early Shadowlands, too. Because today you don't need to grind Torghast, you don't need to go crazy to upgrade things, it doesn't take hours and hours and hours to get basic gear. You get flying just by doing part of the total campaign, you get your two legendaries (one of which will be 291) just from doing Zerith Mortis casually.

    The issue with WoW isn't the systems right now, it's the information gap. There are so many ways to do things wrong, and if you're not the kind of player that searches up guides for your class, your gear, your legendaries, your covenant, your soulbinds, etc...you're in danger of wasting time on things that don't work very well. And the game doesn't communicate a lot of this to newer players.

    That's not to say that XIV doesn't have things to learn as well, but you're not really in danger of blowing a weeks worth of mats and a chunk of gold on the "wrong thing" because you didn't know about a nerf or something.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    That video is super dishonest if you consider the context here in this thread.
    You have to do shit to do shit. That's the case in FFXIV as well. You don't just have "gil", you don't have just your gatherer up, you don't just get your gear from PvP. You also do shit there. I clear FFXIV savage every tier and *I* don't have Gil to buy gear. It's *way* too expensive to do so and it takes time and weeks before the prices fall down.

    What's the problem?

    When shadowlands came out, I did some mythics, then I did raids and mythic+ and mythic+ already outgeared heroic raids for me before my guild achieved curve... and I never even did multiple runs every week, very often I'd just do one.
    That's the point where I have more than enough gear to try out mythic raids and even clear it. It's just a question of playerskill at that point and no longer a question about how much time I'll invest in this game.

    Now, since I'm not raiding, I'm doing about 4 every week, but that's not necessary for the gear. I do it because I just like to do +20 etc.
    FF14 to do list for savage:
    1. Get gil or gear up in a couple of weeks manually

    WoW to do list for raiding:
    1. Clear the lower difficulties for upgrades
    2. Do M+ for upgrades.
    3. Keep up on daily and weekly tasks to do things like get your legendary upgraded

    It's not the same and the distinction is obvious on its face.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzaga View Post
    The problem is that ninespines is an nototious bootlicker for FF14. Nothing you say will make him admit he is wrong, and that FF14 is exactly the same as wow. Despite, you know, the creator of the game even admitting it is. Every single one of his perceived "issues" with wow are also present in FF14, b--bb-but its different because....it just is okay?

    Hell, Square enix is even copying the abusing of employees, but no one apparantly gives a fuck about that, its only bad whne blizz does it i suppose
    Square is a publisher not a studio. Creative Business Unit 3 is the studio. Are there allegations of misconduct at Creative Business Unit 3?

    Tell me more about how everyone in FF14 has to use addons all the time.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    FF14 to do list for savage:
    1. Get gil or gear up in a couple of weeks manually

    WoW to do list for raiding:
    1. Clear the lower difficulties for upgrades
    2. Do M+ for upgrades.
    3. Keep up on daily and weekly tasks to do things like get your legendary upgraded

    It's not the same and the distinction is obvious on its face.
    Well, that's a bit dishonest, you just mashed all the XIV activities into one line and tried to break out the WoW ones so it looked like a lot more.

    WoW does have a steeper gearing curve, like I said before, but it's not insane. You don't need to be out there doing dailies constantly, you don't need to be hitting every raid difficulty, you don't need to be farming M+ constantly. Especially not in the latest patch, where a lot of things are pretty free just for doing the ZM story.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Well, that's a bit dishonest, you just mashed all the XIV activities into one line and tried to break out the WoW ones so it looked like a lot more.

    WoW does have a steeper gearing curve, like I said before, but it's not insane. You don't need to be out there doing dailies constantly, you don't need to be hitting every raid difficulty, you don't need to be farming M+ constantly. Especially not in the latest patch, where a lot of things are pretty free just for doing the ZM story.
    It's one line because it's an OR. The activities for WoW are an AND. The normal expectation for a raider is going to be to do the lower difficulty than they progress on, and to do M+, and to keep up with chores (which they have lessened dramatically since shadowlands launched and appear to be going away in Dragonflight).
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Nobody said anything about things being "mathematically impossible" except you. I don't care what the best 100 people in the world do. It is meaningless. I care how it impacts the average person who does the content. If the average person who regularly does the content cannot complete it without X gear level, then that is the gear wall.
    Let's just say this: I was an average, at best, mythic raider. World 300-500 for most of the last decade. I peaked at U.S. 8 in Cataclysm, which came out in fucking 2010, and that's because most of the top guilds were banned for abusing LFR, which had just come out, for trinket stacking etc.

    I can count on one hand the number of mythic bosses where I've hit enrage while everyone does mechanics perfectly. It's never happened on heroic. I think the curve is pretty good in WoW that you have more than enough gear from just normal playing of the game for your skill level such that you can kill it when you get to it. There is no effective gear wall - there's only a skill wall.

    Also, those "top 100" mirror the top statics which clear Ultimate. WoW has a much higher, exponential curve of "# of guilds who clear X boss" because the gear nerfs the content, but the beginning of the curves look exactly the same among the top groups. I totally agree with the idea that Ultimate holds its difficulty well past that of mythic in WoW, because it's only "nerfed" in later expansions when the ilvl you're synced to raises to something higher than when it came out. In terms of "endgame hard raiding" WoW is much *better* to the "average" raider. Even scrub guilds can kill 3 or so mythic bosses by the end of the tier.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's one line because it's an OR. The activities for WoW are an AND. The normal expectation for a raider is going to be to do the lower difficulty than they progress on, and to do M+, and to keep up with chores (which they have lessened dramatically since shadowlands launched and appear to be going away in Dragonflight).
    Dude... you are already being dishonest by leaving out the time it requires to get to max level in FFXIV.
    All the time it takes to get to that point is the time you need to invest into torghast or dungeons to be raid-ready as a "first time player".
    After you have done it once for an expansion, you are also done with that kind of content. I haven't touched those in 9.1 or 9.2.
    I didn't even get any real boosts from heroic raiding in 9.1 and we still did curve way, way ahead of schedule. And Heroic is basicaly the savage difficulty. Meant to be outgeared easily (just like savage) meant to be beaten with bad gear (just like savage)


    And I still think you don't grasp the concept of weekly rewards and that it means you have absolutely *nothing* to gain from playing 24/7 in WoW.
    WoW is a game you play for a few hours a week and log out.
    All the things you mentioned are done in a single fucking day, maybe 2 at most.

    And what do you think farming gil and doing daily dungeons is? It's the same-fucking-thing. Lol.
    Again, you don't just have Gil. I don't spend my Gil on *anything* and I only farm dungeons when I need at the start of an expansion. I have no Gil income, if I want gil, I have to play hours upon hours upon hours, or do the normal raid every week, or the alliance raid every week.
    But yes, I can get gear from dungeons, but I have to do them like 50 times to gear up completely (for Savage) or do hunt-trains.
    I can also run 50 Mythic + dungeons and I'm completely geared as well. Mythic quality. Don't even have to touch the raids.

    I'm going to point out more clearly what you said earlier, maybe you didn't even mean it:
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It really depends what you are doing in each game, but generally speaking WoW is constructed to be the only video game you play and F14 is not. There are a lot of predatory hooks in WoW.
    It's so flipping not, lol.
    It's constructed exactly the opposite, it's trying to get you *back* into it every week (just like FFXIV as well actually) so that you keep paying subs. But it doesn't require me to do hours upon hours to do anything in this game. You don't fall behind a player that does 400 mythic+ runs in any meaningful way, if you just do 1-4.
    As mentioned earlier, the *only* time where you need to do some gearing up is when you want to play Mythic raids early. But that's the case with Savage raids in FFXIV as well, and even if it were not, it's Mythic raiding. Content barely anyone does designed for the people that *want* WoW to be the main game.
    If you buy the gear asap, it will cost you *millions* to buy them in the AH. I never even had that amount of money in FFXIV all the from 2.0 to now. Or you chain run dungeons on a daily basis for weeks. (chain run as in. don't miss days because you have a cap that you have to maintain)
    Either way, you have to invest a lot of time compared to the time you have to invest if you wait a few weeks

    You don't farm rares in WoW to get the new legendary not-belt-recipe. You do the weekly and world quest which take like 20 minutes a week, because they are like worth 20 hours of actual *gametime* (or more) in terms of reputation (which is what you need for it) and so on and so forth.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-06-24 at 06:23 PM.

  10. #230
    See

    The problem is that ninespines is an nototious bootlicker for FF14. Nothing you say will make him admit he is wrong, and that FF14 is exactly the same as wow.
    The guy is an incredibly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest bootlicker.

    Things to do in FF14:
    Get gold or farm lower difficulty content for gear
    farm a thousand rocks to get your gathering gear
    craft the same item a thousand times to get your crafting gear (and do it again for every crafting job)
    level up your crafting so you can materia meld your gear

    Things to do in wow:
    farm gold or lower difficulty content for gear

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    I have to assume the video is talking about early Shadowlands, too. Because today you don't need to grind Torghast, you don't need to go crazy to upgrade things, it doesn't take hours and hours and hours to get basic gear. You get flying just by doing part of the total campaign, you get your two legendaries (one of which will be 291) just from doing Zerith Mortis casually.
    It is an older video, and as I mentioned I haven't played in a long while, so if they addressed this that is actually super cool, because at the time I was considering returning that video was spot on. I would have had a huge checklist of shit to do before I could really play the game.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Let's just say this: I was an average, at best, mythic raider. World 300-500 for most of the last decade. I peaked at U.S. 8 in Cataclysm, which came out in fucking 2010, and that's because most of the top guilds were banned for abusing LFR, which had just come out, for trinket stacking etc.
    That's not average. That's mega top tier.

    I can count on one hand the number of mythic bosses where I've hit enrage while everyone does mechanics perfectly. It's never happened on heroic. I think the curve is pretty good in WoW that you have more than enough gear from just normal playing of the game for your skill level such that you can kill it when you get to it. There is no effective gear wall - there's only a skill wall.
    Enrage is not the only indicator of throughput. The tolerance for mistakes gets higher and higher the better your gear is.

    Generally speaking, the second half of Heroic and the first half of Mythic are not very different from a complexity perspective, but massive numbers of people clear Heroic very early and very, very, very few people clear the first half of Mythic very quickly. Why? Because there is a very steep gear curve. Can you overcome this with skill? Of course, but that doesn't change that it is CLEARLY tuned for gear above what is available day 1 of the raid.

    Also, those "top 100" mirror the top statics which clear Ultimate. WoW has a much higher, exponential curve of "# of guilds who clear X boss" because the gear nerfs the content, but the beginning of the curves look exactly the same among the top groups. I totally agree with the idea that Ultimate holds its difficulty well past that of mythic in WoW, because it's only "nerfed" in later expansions when the ilvl you're synced to raises to something higher than when it came out. In terms of "endgame hard raiding" WoW is much *better* to the "average" raider. Even scrub guilds can kill 3 or so mythic bosses by the end of the tier.
    I think the discussions of difficulty are ultimately kind of pointless. To me, content is generally pretty easy or pretty hard and getting more detailed than that can get into a huge waste of time because at a granular level it becomes extremely subjective.

    I don't think "You can complete these fights after months and months of gearing up" is a terrible interesting model. I don't think that makes things "better" for anyone. I'd rather the bulk of the content simply completable by the average person like it is in FF14 where basically anyone that wants to put an effort forth can clear savage and extreme 100%.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzaga View Post
    See



    The guy is an incredibly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest bootlicker.

    Things to do in FF14:
    Get gold or farm lower difficulty content for gear
    farm a thousand rocks to get your gathering gear
    craft the same item a thousand times to get your crafting gear (and do it again for every crafting job)
    level up your crafting so you can materia meld your gear
    In FF14, you can either buy the gear with Gil or you can just.... run the normal raid and extremes 3 times, which is how many lockouts you have before Savage comes out anyway. Everything else you are talking about is not necessary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Dude... you are already being dishonest by leaving out the time it requires to get to max level in FFXIV.
    All the time it takes to get to that point is the time you need to invest into torghast or dungeons to be raid-ready.
    Except you need to do that once and you need to do the chores in WoW during every patch.

    And I still think you don't grasp the concept of weekly rewards and that it means you have absolutely *nothing* to gain from playing 24/7 in WoW.
    WoW is a game you play for a few hours a week and log out.
    All the things you mentioned are done in a single fucking day, maybe 2 at most.
    I can't really engage with this level of dishonesty. It's simply a lie at this point because nobody could be so mistaken as to think that in WoW a season starts and you are progressing in mythic by putting in 3 hours per week. Why lie about this? Such a weird thing to lie about.

    And what do you think farming gil and doing daily dungeons is? It's the same-fucking-thing. Lol.
    Again, you don't just have Gil. I don't spend my Gil on *anything* and I only farm dungeons when I need at the start of an expansion. I have no Gil income, if I want gil, I have to play hours upon hours upon hours, or do the normal raid every week, or the alliance raid every week.
    But yes, I can get gear from dungeons, but I have to do them like 50 times to gear up completely (for Savage) or do hunt-trains.
    I can also run 50 Mythic + dungeons and I'm completely geared as well. Mythic quality. Don't even have to touch the raids.
    Clearing the normal raid and extremes for a couple of weeks is not a big deal, especially because you can do it three times before you even do savage week 1.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    In FF14, you can either buy the gear with Gil or you can just.... run the normal raid and extremes 3 times, which is how many lockouts you have before Savage comes out anyway. Everything else you are talking about is not necessary.
    And then you clear savage instantly? Or do you not farm the earlier bosses for weeks to get better gear?
    What do you do in wow?
    You can also do mythic runs, gear up a bit, clear normal and heroic, and go into mythic.

    But in both games, most people can't do it.
    Savage raiding isn't Mythic raiding. Mythic is designed for people who want WoW to be *the* game, not *a* game.
    If you want to compare Savage with WoW, use heroic raiding.

    How is running normal raid and extremes (one of which is on a weekly lockout) different from running 1 M+ dungeon and normal raid in WoW (which one of which is also on a weekly lock-out.)
    Guilds literally clear the normal raid on the first day every patch. And I don't even mean good guilds... just your everyday raider. They don't even do it for upgrades, they do it just because, as most players will already have better gear from the last patch.
    Next patch, if I were a raiding player, I wouldn't have to have normal raid *at all*. What will it drop... 272 or something? I'm already above that by playing 1-4 M+ every week and doing the normal raid once. How the heck is WoW designed to be my "only game" like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post


    Except you need to do that once and you need to do the chores in WoW during every patch.



    I can't really engage with this level of dishonesty. It's simply a lie at this point because nobody could be so mistaken as to think that in WoW a season starts and you are progressing in mythic by putting in 3 hours per week. Why lie about this? Such a weird thing to lie about.



    Clearing the normal raid and extremes for a couple of weeks is not a big deal, especially because you can do it three times before you even do savage week 1.

    ... you are obviously *not* playing WoW or haven't been since years. So why do you say I'm lying? You don't even *know* how shit is done these days because you have no idea about the game and how the systems work.
    Wtf.
    You are, at the start of every single season, outgearing normal raids. You start *gearing* in heroic raids and M+, which is Savage Raiding in FFXIV.
    In 3 weeks, by M+ alone, you will already have enough gear to start progressing Mythic raids without being completely undergeared.
    You are getting 2 fucking heroic-raid quality items every single run. (-3 itemlevel, which is nothing) Every single run, for 5 players.
    And 1 guarantee mythic raid quality item for every player. How long do you think it takes to gear up for mythic raiding before only mythic and weekly lockout gear will be an upgrade for you?

    You are spitting absolutely and entirely nonsense and you are very, very ill-informed about WoW progress raiding or raiding in general or even gear. You have *not* played the game since forever. Pretending you actually now what you are talking about only makes you look silly and you should really stop digging your grave even deeper.

    I didn't even mention Valor upgrading yet, lmao. That will let you upgrade *above* (95% of) heroic raid gear.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-06-24 at 06:50 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by xmirrors View Post
    It is an older video, and as I mentioned I haven't played in a long while, so if they addressed this that is actually super cool, because at the time I was considering returning that video was spot on. I would have had a huge checklist of shit to do before I could really play the game.
    And see, this is what I mean by WoW having a bit of an information gap.

    A lot of things just aren't clear unless you're out there engaging with out-of-game sources. Does anyone tell new players that a set of mats for a 291 legendary are on a vendor in ZM? Or that your second legendary is free from finishing the ZM story? That between legendary items, a crafted item, and loot or BoE's from ZM you can be ready to hit M+ immediately? That you can get 4pc tier pretty easily from the Crucible - even without touching raiding?

    If a new player doesn't know any of this - or gets outdated information - they might spend weeks doing inefficient things. I had people complaining that the Maw was taking too long, for example. Why are they even in the Maw? Because no one told them they could skip all that.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    And then you clear savage instantly? Or do you not farm the earlier bosses for weeks to get better gear?
    What do you do in wow?
    You can also do mythic runs, gear up a bit, clear normal and heroic, and go into mythic.
    1. Even if you had to clear normal every week, that takes less than an hour when you have it on farm.
    2. You can clear normal 3 times before you set foot into savage on its first week. It only takes 3-4 clears to be done with normal.

    But in both games, most people can't do it.
    Savage raiding isn't Mythic raiding. Mythic is designed for people who want WoW to be *the* game, not *a* game.
    If you want to compare Savage with WoW, use heroic raiding.

    How is running normal raid and extremes (one of which is on a weekly lockout) different from running 1 M+ dungeon and normal raid in WoW (which one of which is also on a weekly lock-out.)
    Because it's faster and you need to do it far fewer times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    ... you are obviously *not* playing WoW or haven't been since years. So why do you say I'm lying? You don't even *know* how shit is done these days because you have no idea about the game.
    Wtf.
    I know that nobody is progression mythic raiding with 3 hours of game time per week from week 1. It's a comical lie.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The gear wall in WoW is an overused myth. Everything is killable week 1 with gear accessible before stepping into the raid. Only a handful of guilds will be able to do that, but every time there's a "mathematically impossible" boss, guilds prove it wrong. Gear in WoW serves to nerf content, not as a wall against it.
    It's funny that both world first leaders disagree with you on that.

    Or did you miss the 200+ splits they did this tier? Idk man.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I know that nobody is progression mythic raiding with 3 hours of game time per week from week 1. It's a comical lie.
    Strawman? Goalpost moving?
    You went from "WoW only wants you to play it and nothing else" to "there is no one that can play Mythic without playing a lot" to "no one is progressing week 1 mythic raiding without playing a lot" and most likely soon "no one is world-first raiding day 1 without playing a lot".

    Even though I started this whole discussion with "The only thing that requires some kind of prep is mythic raiding", lol.

    You must be confusing the discussion with someone else.
    I said WoW is not designed around you playing only it. That is all.
    I explicitly said that Mythic raiding isn't Savage Raiding. Savage raiding is basically Heroic Raiding.
    Both require very little effort to gear up towards, and are roughly the same difficulty. Both difficulties are of the type where "if you did play this game for a bit, you can immediatly jump into it"

    Why do you even compare FFXIV Savage raiding with mythic raiding?
    It's a joke (the comparison)
    FFXIV doesn't have anything designed like that.
    If FFXIV end game content were normal raids, you would be comparing it to mythic as well?
    If FFXIV would add another difficulty for hardcore players, it would be the exact same thing, but FFXIV simply doesn't have it. Even Ultimate isn't it. It doesn't have anything for hardcore players that want difficult content like WoW mythic raiding.

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    1. Even if you had to clear normal every week, that takes less than an hour when you have it on farm.
    2. You can clear normal 3 times before you set foot into savage on its first week. It only takes 3-4 clears to be done with normal.
    I literally don't even have to set foot into normal in either games. Neither for WoW mythic/heroic raiding nor FFXIV savage raiding. What's your argument here. You are talking about a gearing process that doesn't exist.
    In both games you outgear that content every patch after the first - and only then as well.
    And neither games did require me to play more than ~1-3 hours per week for that to happen.

    I can't express enough how M+ will take you 30-1h and give you heroic raiding gear, both guaranteed and plenty randomly as well.
    If you spend 15 minutes doing a dungeon every day in FFXIV until tomestone cap, you can also do 2-3 mythic+ dungeons using the same amount of gametime and get on average *more* and *better* gear (relatively to each game's way of gearing up)
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-06-24 at 07:12 PM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Strawman? Goalpost moving?
    You went from "WoW only wants you to play it and nothing else" to "there is no one that can play Mythic without playing a lot" to "no one is progressing week 1 mythic raiding without playing a lot" and most likely soon "no one is world-first raiding day 1 without playing a lot".

    Even though I started this whole discussion with "The only thing that requires some kind of prep is mythic raiding", lol.

    You must be confusing the discussion with someone else.
    I said WoW is not designed around you playing only it. That is all.
    I explicitly said that Mythic raiding isn't Savage Raiding. Savage raiding is basically Heroic Raiding.
    Both require very little effort to gear up towards, and are roughly the same difficulty. Both difficulties are of the type where "if you did play this game for a bit, you can immediatly jump into it"

    Why do you even compare FFXIV Savage raiding with mythic raiding?
    It's a joke (the comparison)
    FFXIV doesn't have anything designed like that.
    If FFXIV end game content were normal raids, you would be comparing it to mythic as well?
    If FFXIV would add another difficulty for hardcore players, it would be the exact same thing, but FFXIV simply doesn't have it. Even Ultimate isn't it. It doesn't have anything for hardcore players that want difficult content like WoW mythic raiding.

    I literally don't even have to set foot into normal in either games. Neither for WoW mythic/heroic raiding nor FFXIV savage raiding. What's your argument here. You are talking about a gearing process that doesn't exist.
    In both games you outgear that content every patch after the first - and only then as well.
    And neither games did require me to play more than ~1-3 hours per week for that to happen.

    I can't express enough how M+ will take you 30-1h and give you heroic raiding gear, both guaranteed and plenty randomly as well.
    If you spend 15 minutes doing a dungeon every day in FFXIV until tomestone cap, you can also do 2-3 mythic+ dungeons using the same amount of gametime and get on average *more* and *better* gear (relatively to each game's way of gearing up)
    You talk about mythic, so I match your conversation, and then you whine that we are talking about mythic. I'm done with your argumentative debate lord garbage.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    This is just false. The amount of content in FF14 is comparable if not superior. We get a major patch every 3-4 months, while wow struggles to hit a major patch every 8 months.
    1 wow major patch is about the same as 5 FF14 major patches. So no FF14 does not do more.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You talk about mythic, so I match your conversation, and then you whine that we are talking about mythic. I'm done with your argumentative debate lord garbage.
    Hahahaha, when you can't win, just make some shit up and pretend the other person is doing it!

    "
    I then said.
    "



    After this you pretended you didn't say all this:



    ""



    then you switched goal posts. Remember it was all about "wow wants you to be the *only* game you are playing" is what you said.
    Even though there is hardly *anything* in WoW that gets you something worthwhile from playing a lot. It's all tied to weekly rewards, which require a few hours per week.


    ""



    You are unable to follow a proper discussion. You are a weird guy.
    And yes, we aren't talking about the same point or thing... because you kept changing it in absolutely every single freaking post.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-06-24 at 07:38 PM.

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