I genuinely just feet so defeated by the American political circus...

[Claymore]

I worked as a political consultant for about 8 years. I went into it as a starry-eyed, self-proclaimed "Libertarian". But over time, everyone in the field learns this is very much a "business" to the psychopaths on Capitol Hill. It's like all logic and reason go out the window, as well as the willingness for any kind of actual, meaningful debate.

I'm no longer working in that industry anymore (not necessarily by choice; I had to relocate to help care for my father, who's not been doing so good lately), but it's definitely been nice being able to "tune-out" a bit more.

But god damn, are people so fucking frustrating. And these fucking psychopaths in office seem hellbent on steering the nation collective either over a cliff, or directly into a civil war.

The Roe v Wade stuff? Look, on a purely PERSONAL level, I don't like abortion; I think it sucks that anyone even has to CONSIDER it. But that's not my choice to make. That's what "Liberty" actually is; being able to make choices for your life. Even if I don't agree with them.

But then on the other side of the coin, there's all this shit about gun laws. The Second Amendment exists quite specifically to give the common citizen SOME means of protecting themselves against government tyranny. And everyone likes to be all snide like "what, do you really think you're going to stand up against the US army?", but then look at the fucking Ukraine situation. They're literally requesting Americans to send them guns. And let's be frank; shit got SUPER FUCKING SCARY last year leading up to Biden finally taking office. I legitimately worried that Trump wasn't going to concede the election, and that he was going to try to call on the Marine Corps to defend him. That's how crazy things have been lately. So... yeah, I'm not exactly brimming with confidence that "everyone in the government is my friend".

Of course, turning this back yet again, I actually support National Healthcare. I know, I know -- "I guess you're not a real Libertarian then!". And you know what?

That's fucking fine.

At least, it SHOULD be.

We're all going to have disagreements about one thing or another. And I don't expect anyone to share my views. But I should at least be ALLOWED to have my own views. And to be open about them. But people have gotten so cut-throat, everybody wants to walk around pretending they're some kind of political expert, and that anyone that disagrees is either an idiot, a "liberal communist" or a "racist conservative".

Is it REALLY expecting too much of people to stop acting like a bunch of fucking whiny children, and have SOME semblance of respect for how another person might feel on an issue? Or -- GOD FORBID -- even inquire what life experiences may have lead them to having said point of view?

Honestly, it just confirms the one shitty realization I've had about people, which is that throughout all of human history, War is the only constant. Something in our DNA must just crave conflict.

[Fugus]

@Claymore

If you look at the gun debates, no rational person it talking about banning guns in the US, that would be beyond stupid. But if you notice the main ones who have tried to TAKE guns over the last 20 years were Republicans with Bush Jr marching authorities into New Orleans to go door to door and physically take them and Trump asking if he could just take our guns and deal with the legal process later (Said this on camera).

With the guns, we are talking about regulating them by making it where stuff like you have to be able to pass a mental evaluation and background check to get one and if you start ticking some red flags on mental stability or being prone to violence they can be taken from you. But no one is talking about the whole sale removal of them with any seriousness and sanity. We have more guns than people, 3D printers are making it easier and you can build a gun for about $15 and access to a hardware store, getting the ammo is harder than getting the guns.

And remember, these same people who have tried to take your guns while in power are also the ones attacking abortion, legalized outright purchasing Senators just last month in a case involving Ted Cruz, and I heard removed any punishment for cops who break the law and refuse to read you your maranda rights recently. They are also the ones who have put in their own judges opinions they want to go after birth control, same sex marriage, and laws protecting your right to get/give oral sex and that isn't even getting into what they put in their Texas platform.

Quite literally, 99.999% of the issues are coming from the side of Conservatives.

[korijenkins]

Politics is a lot worse when you realize both parties are massively conservative. The Dems just posture for support, but never actually support leftist positions anymore.

[Fugus]

Politics is a lot worse when you realize both parties are massively conservative. The Dems just posture for support, but never actually support leftist positions anymore.

Can definitely agree with this. They never did anything to really push for support for Gay Marriage when it mattered, they just paid lip service to it until the Supreme Court took it out of their hands and THEN they tried to claim they supported it after they couldn't do anything to stop it.

These are people that are 60+ years old where being left handed was looked down upon, minorities were considered subhuman, and having an interracial child was reason enough to disown you.

Many, if not most, of them are socially very much in line with the GOP here, they just know they can't come out like that in public and keep power. They just try and be weak when they can get away with it.

[Kaleredar]

If gun laws worked... I.e, America wasn't the only developed nation on the earth wherein dozens of mass shootings happen a year, nobody would have a "problem with guns," and there wouldn't be an issue. I think you'll find very few people have some moral opposition to guns as a physical object that exist. It's that, clearly, the laws do not work because, no matter the state, no matter the county, no matter the "freedom" of the gun laws... it doesn't do anything. No amount of "putting guns into the hands of potential heroes" has done an iota of stopping these incidents from occurring, especially in contrast to other countries who have far more restrictive firearm laws where these things don't happen, and on the off chance they do things actually get done about it.

So these "communist liberals" are trying to come up with something that does stop children from being gunned down in schools. The only thing "racist conservatives" seem to be interested in doing is shifting blame onto violent video games or rap music or, when they deign to be generous enough to try and shift the blame onto something tangentially related, they go to mental health... without actually proposing to do anything about it. Simply a "it's not the gun's fault, stop blaming guns, we're not actually going to do anything but we can tell you guns aren't the problem."

So if you're wondering why certain people are so fervently in favor of pursuing firearms legislation, it's because they read about a school full of children or a church or some other public space being shot up by some lunatic with dozens of red flags who legally bought a gun again and again and again and are angered by the fact that half of the political sphere going to the immediate refrain of "it's not the gun's fault, stop blaming guns, we're not actually going to do anything but we can tell you guns aren't the problem" every. Single. Time. But that doesn't stop innocent people from dying, nor does saying "sorry about your son dying, but some day we may need to take up arms against the government and the second amendment says..." bring dead children back from the grave.


The reason people are becoming more "tribalized" is because politics have become less about vague ephemera like large-scale economic policy or trade, and about things that are necessary for people to just live and about what is right and what is wrong. And moreover, the Republican party, in its waning demographic throes as it loses the votes of... basically every demographic that isn't white men... has had to cast a larger and larger net to unite fiscally conservative voters, religiously conservative voters, and socially conservative voters, and lash them all together. And in effect, it doesn't matter if you hypothetically like "lower taxes, but not necessarily removing the right for gay people to get married..." if in order to support the first one the guy you voted for is going to support the second as well. That just means you support a candidate that doesn't want gay people to get married.

And like I was saying, that has a real effect on real people's lives. And as the republicans fight hard to do things like repeal Roe V. Wade, or gay marriage, or reduce necessary social spending... you know, things that affect these real people, or their family members, or people they know, you wont find those people very appreciative of the distinction you may be trying to make that "I voted for this guy just because he wanted to lower my taxes, not because he was also anti-choice." Because your vote removed their bodily autonomy, which they probably care less about than some hypothetical trickle-down economics model.

[Gestopft]

The Second Amendment exists quite specifically to give the common citizen SOME means of protecting themselves against government tyranny.

The Second Amendment quite explicitly mentions protecting the state, not fighting it...

- - - Updated - - -

We're all going to have disagreements about one thing or another. And I don't expect anyone to share my views. But I should at least be ALLOWED to have my own views. And to be open about them. But people have gotten so cut-throat, everybody wants to walk around pretending they're some kind of political expert, and that anyone that disagrees is either an idiot, a "liberal communist" or a "racist conservative".

Is it REALLY expecting too much of people to stop acting like a bunch of fucking whiny children, and have SOME semblance of respect for how another person might feel on an issue? Or -- GOD FORBID -- even inquire what life experiences may have lead them to having said point of view?

Are you still talking about Capitol Hill here, or society in general?

[PC2]

I love politics. Everybody believes that society should be run in the specific way that they want, but I think they're all wrong. Just continuing on our current path seems better than anything that the left/right wants, imo.

[MCMLXXXII]

I love politics. Everybody believes that society should be run in the specific way that they want, but I think they're all wrong. Just continuing on our current path seems better than anything that the left/right wants, imo.

Continuing on the current path. Recent trend is walking backwards on the path

[s_bushido]

The Roe v Wade stuff? Look, on a purely PERSONAL level, I don't like abortion; I think it sucks that anyone even has to CONSIDER it. But that's not my choice to make. That's what "Liberty" actually is; being able to make choices for your life. Even if I don't agree with them.

That may be what "liberty" is, but that's not what "libertarians" in the States are. More often than not, they're just conservatives embarrassed to use the label.

But then on the other side of the coin, there's all this shit about gun laws. The Second Amendment exists quite specifically to give the common citizen SOME means of protecting themselves against government tyranny.

The 2A says no such thing:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It's literally about the security of the state. That you believe otherwise is simply a symptom of your falling for the propaganda of the "psychopaths" you started this thread to complain about.

We're all going to have disagreements about one thing or another. And I don't expect anyone to share my views. But I should at least be ALLOWED to have my own views. And to be open about them.

And who says otherwise. You're allowed to have your own views, just as other people are allowed to think some of those views are fucking reprehensible and have no place being codified into law. As is the case with opposition to healthcare and human rights that the GOP have embraced as a core pillar of their platform.

Is it REALLY expecting too much of people to stop acting like a bunch of fucking whiny children, and have SOME semblance of respect for how another person might feel on an issue? Or -- GOD FORBID -- even inquire what life experiences may have lead them to having said point of view?

No one is under any obligation to respect the feelings of those who want to oppress other people. Deal with it.

[Kronik85]

Of course, turning this back yet again, I actually support National Healthcare. I know, I know -- "I guess you're not a real Libertarian then!". And you know what?

That's fucking fine.

At least, it SHOULD be.s

No no, it sounds like you are a pretty stereotypical Libertarian. Libertarians are mostly characterised as having to walk back their positions until they basically just reinvent The State only this time it exclusively serves their own purposes.

The idea that you want to have a government who's only job is to provide national health care seems par of the course for being a Libertarian on the internet. /Shrug

Anyway apologies, you seem to have come out posting in good faith and now you're just going to have people lecture you about how Republicans suck because...well they suck, and their voting block has become completely unhinged.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I love politics. Everybody believes that society should be run in the specific way that they want, but I think they're all wrong. Just continuing on our current path seems better than anything that the left/right wants, imo.

OK, so I guess we now know you're A-OK with banning abortion, stopping gay marriage, and re-introducing racial segregation laws, because one of those things already happened and the other two are on the table.

[LilSaihah]

I wouldn't say I feel defeated, but I do feel burnt out. It's really hard to care about the little things when there's always something new. This ruling seems like it's being drastically blown out of proportion, just like with everything else for the last... I'm not even sure how many years.

[Beefhammer]

OK, so I guess we now know you're A-OK with banning abortion, stopping gay marriage, and re-introducing racial segregation laws, because one of those things already happened and the other two are on the table.

Of course he is. he's proven himself to nothing more than a conservative shill.

[Shadowferal]

OK, so I guess we now know you're A-OK with banning abortion, stopping gay marriage, and re-introducing racial segregation laws, because one of those things already happened and the other two are on the table.

Forgot about contraception.

[Lenonis]

Just continuing on our current path seems better than anything that the left/right wants, imo.

so..... keep people in poverty, keep letting climate change outpace efforts to reverse it, keep countries with abusive cultures, keep wars.

Yeah sounds like we're in a real utopia.

What a selfish statement.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Is American politics even about right or left anymore? Feels more like cultural got you moments that pretend to lean on one side or the other but either really doesn't do anything besides more money for guns and bombs and excuses or inaction for pretty much anything else.

[Santti]

Is American politics even about right or left anymore? Feels more like cultural got you moments that pretend to lean on one side or the other but either really doesn't do anything besides more money for guns and bombs and excuses or inaction for pretty much anything else.

Anymore? When is the last time American politics has been about right or left? Has there even been such a time period? At least currently, it's middle/middle-right or far-right. That's Overton Window for you.

[Traveler Voltin]

american politic is simple Left vs Right. there is no middle ground. both sides are greedy.

if they actually cared about the people instead of money and being correct, a lot of things could have gotten done by now.

[Lenonis]

both sides

Tell me you don't actually follow policies without telling me you don't follow politics.

[Traveler Voltin]

Tell me you don't actually follow policies without telling me you don't follow politics.

if that is all you have to say then move on with your life.