[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Shadowferal]

Was Iron Man 2 already Disney though?

I don't believe so.
And xmen belonged to Fox.

[s_bushido]

Was Iron Man 2 already Disney though?

Iron Man 2 came out a few months after the merger was finalized. So I have to assume it was already deep into production when those negotiations were being made.

It's funny you mention it, though. Since I seem to recall there being some """controversy""" over the antagonist Senator saying "F*ck you, Mr. Stark! F*ck you, buddy!" with the profanity bleeped. Something about self-censorship or similar nonsense. Nevermind that it happened in the context of a televised hearing...so obviously it was bleedped. Just goes to show that people were looking for anything to be upset about before they had the nefarious Disney to blame it on.

[Svifnymr]

I mean, that's exactly the intent Stan Lee had when creating Iron Man....he wanted to make someone that was unlikeable into a hero people loved.

Yeah, I agree that's sort of the point of it, Stark was a sexist alcoholic stereotype. Sure, we can say maybe he should have been better by IM2, but meh. Widow& Fury using the right tool to get in close to a sexist jackass also seems to make perfect sense to me.

Thor being stripped naked as a prisoner is more a joke for the audience, which Ragnarok was also full of, so meh. It is what it is.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yeah, I agree that's sort of the point of it, Stark was a sexist alcoholic stereotype. Sure, we can say maybe he should have been better by IM2, but meh. Widow& Fury using the right tool to get in close to a sexist jackass also seems to make perfect sense to me.

The whole point of the character is that he's a work in process. He's not Steve Rogers and he was never meant to be.

[Ihavewaffles]

Yeah, I agree that's sort of the point of it, Stark was a sexist alcoholic stereotype. Sure, we can say maybe he should have been better by IM2, but meh. Widow& Fury using the right tool to get in close to a sexist jackass also seems to make perfect sense to me.

Thor being stripped naked as a prisoner is more a joke for the audience, which Ragnarok was also full of, so meh. It is what it is.

'for the audience' you meant to say the female gaze, while eating grapes, that is very sexist n objectifying af
You wouldn't handwave this thing if the roles were reversed.

[MCMLXXXII]

Because that shit happens all the time. The roles being reversed, for once, is irony or satire, a form of comedy some clearly don't understand and want to blame it on ThOsE eViL wOkE sJw'S

[s_bushido]

you meant to say the female gaze, while eating grapes, that is very sexist n objectifying af
You wouldn't handwave this thing if the roles were reversed.

This "double-standard of objectification" narrative isn't going to work out for you. Especially not when the people bringing it up now are the same ones who lose their minds any time a female character's costume becomes more modest (and less obviously just a thong leotard) over time.

[Biomega]

'for the audience' you meant to say the female gaze, while eating grapes, that is very sexist n objectifying af
You wouldn't handwave this thing if the roles were reversed.

Oh PLEASE.

You're missing the point entirely. The reason this scene works is precisely BECAUSE the reverse constellation IS so ubiquitous. Any film ever that had a girl ogled by the men around here is precisely that, and it's EVERYWHERE in cinema.

It's overdrawn and exaggerated for comedic effect, but it really works mostly because we know this is a thing usually affecting women. Don't pretend like there's no sexual exploitation of the female form, and it's somehow only okay when it's done this way. That's dishonest and ignorant.

Besides: there's a difference between appreciation and objectification. No one is saying you can't enjoy a naked body; the problem is when you see a person as NOTHING BUT a body. And that's very clearly not even remotely the case here.

[Ihavewaffles]

Lol all these people making shitty excuses
"well male gaze bad, therefore th female gaze is ok"
and "sure he is butt-naked, but still wearing stuff on OTHER part of body, so clearly not nekkid!11"
"oogling while eating grapes like its Roman times not objectifying...clearly they were focusing on the tapestries! That's why they were eating grapes like it was popcorn!"

The point is that the people who screech about 'the ewul male gaze!' are very silent about the thor scene, hypocrite much?


And remember "america's ass"? n people complain about black widow...

[Ihavewaffles]

Literally nothing wrong with this. It isn't anyone else's fault that you fail to understand why.

I understand that if it was jane foster butt-naked, twitter would have a meltdown n screech cancellation.

[MrLachyG]

I understand that if it was jane foster butt-naked, twitter would have a meltdown n screech cancellation.

you don't get humour at all, do you? you don't understand that it was a complete piss take? a reversal of the standard fare when men ogle a naked woman, this time it's women ogling a naked man? do the terms 'irony' and 'satire' mean anything to you?

also if the roles were reversed and it was Jane there instead of Thor, then again it would be done in a humourous way! what, do you think that there isn't going to be any nudity again? in any film for ever and ever? Get a grip dude. There wasn't a twitter meltdown after The Boys Herogasm episode was there? so why would there be one if your scenario happened.

[Ihavewaffles]

you don't get humour at all, do you? you don't understand that it was a complete piss take? a reversal of the standard fare when men ogle a naked woman, this time it's women ogling a naked man? do the terms 'irony' and 'satire' mean anything to you?

also if the roles were reversed and it was Jane there instead of Thor, then again it would be done in a humourous way! what, do you think that there isn't going to be any nudity again? in any film for ever and ever? Get a grip dude.

Oh you sweet summer child...u think after the black widow outcry they would do butt-naked jane foster?

Yeah, we have had naked people, both sexes before, congrats sherlock! You are a master of your craft!

The point is that outrage is selective. The loudmouths about black widow are now silent. Don't preach right n wrong n be selective about it. Either apply ur stance on everything, or shut the fuck up is my point.

[MrLachyG]

Oh you sweet summer child...u think after the black widow outcry they would do butt-naked jane foster?

Yeah, we have had naked people, both sexes before, congrats sherlock! You are a master of your craft!

The point is that outrage is selective. The loudmouths about black widow are now silent. Don't preach right n wrong n be selective about it. Either apply ur stance on everything, or shut the fuck up is my point.

again, you have proven to have zero sense of humour, or even the basic understanding of what humour is. enjoy your time on my ignore list, bye!

[s_bushido]

What "Black Widow outcry" do you even think you're talking about? The only scene I can think of that's even remotely analogous to this is Happy ogling her in the car while she was changing on the way to Justin Hammer's place. Or do you somehow think a scene like this one in the Thor trailer is comparable to randomly having her ass in a skin-tight suit center frame as she walks into the scene for...no reason other than to have her ass center frame in a skin-tight suit?

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplished being by outraged about the hypothetical outrage that would happen if there was a scene involving some woman's naked ass in an MCU movie.

[Svifnymr]

you don't get humour at all, do you? you don't understand that it was a complete piss take? a reversal of the standard fare when men ogle a naked woman, this time it's women ogling a naked man? do the terms 'irony' and 'satire' mean anything to you?

This is where my comment before was directed, this doesn't really have anything to do with the plot or the universe, it's just for the audience to laugh at, ogle, debate, hate, whatever. Ragnarok had similar, and it's Taika's style, the sort of absurdist style that a lot of sit coms go for. Where in Thor 1 he was acting as Thor, and the comedy moments were from that fish-out-of-water interaction, now the universe is a series of jokes and it's sort of meh to me. I liked the rock guy in Ragnarok, he was funny, but I didn't like the movie overall.

also if the roles were reversed and it was Jane there instead of Thor, then again it would be done in a humourous way! what, do you think that there isn't going to be any nudity again? in any film for ever and ever? Get a grip dude. There wasn't a twitter meltdown after The Boys Herogasm episode was there? so why would there be one if your scenario happened.

It's perfectly fine if folks don't want nudity in their superhero movies, they have the right to complain about it and they have the right to not watch it and/or boycott the rest of the series. Hell, I watched one episode of The Boyz and thought it was dumb and bad and moved on with life. Opposite is also fine, if folks want superhero porn, go for. Or, obviously somewhere in between, with folks deciding how much nudity/ sex is appropriate for any given production. It would be nice if folks could do it without asserting that their opinions are facts or calling folks names, but this is the internet so I guess it's just the way things work now.
I do find it humorous that folks think the Black Widow's sexualization was not in character and appropriate, while not caring about all the skin tight suits the men are wearing around her, but that's like, their opinion man.

[Biomega]

I'm sure there's plenty of serious scholarship out there on the eroticism of superhero comic aesthetics. I could squeeze out two, three papers on that easy, without even knowing anything about the subject. Writes itself.

But that's not really the point here. This is a comedic scene. It's MEANT to be ridiculous, and to poke fun at stereotypical reactions to nudity, and the way gender plays into that. It's a self-aware, self-referential JOKE. Nothing more, but also nothing less. It fits perfectly well with the director's style, and the character's personality.

[Shadowferal]

Most of the mcu is comedy.

[Lady Atia]

This is where my comment before was directed, this doesn't really have anything to do with the plot or the universe, it's just for the audience to laugh at, ogle, debate, hate, whatever. Ragnarok had similar, and it's Taika's style, the sort of absurdist style that a lot of sit coms go for. Where in Thor 1 he was acting as Thor, and the comedy moments were from that fish-out-of-water interaction, now the universe is a series of jokes and it's sort of meh to me. I liked the rock guy in Ragnarok, he was funny, but I didn't like the movie overall.


It's perfectly fine if folks don't want nudity in their superhero movies, they have the right to complain about it and they have the right to not watch it and/or boycott the rest of the series. Hell, I watched one episode of The Boyz and thought it was dumb and bad and moved on with life. Opposite is also fine, if folks want superhero porn, go for. Or, obviously somewhere in between, with folks deciding how much nudity/ sex is appropriate for any given production. It would be nice if folks could do it without asserting that their opinions are facts or calling folks names, but this is the internet so I guess it's just the way things work now.
I do find it humorous that folks think the Black Widow's sexualization was not in character and appropriate, while not caring about all the skin tight suits the men are wearing around her, but that's like, their opinion man.

You are aware that Thor isn't in a different universe than everything else, right?

[Xilurm]

Lol all these people making shitty excuses
"well male gaze bad, therefore th female gaze is ok"
and "sure he is butt-naked, but still wearing stuff on OTHER part of body, so clearly not nekkid!11"
"oogling while eating grapes like its Roman times not objectifying...clearly they were focusing on the tapestries! That's why they were eating grapes like it was popcorn!"

The point is that the people who screech about 'the ewul male gaze!' are very silent about the thor scene, hypocrite much?

I mean, is there really a problem though? Like seriously. Do men really feel objectified by women? Like, honest question here. I personally feel there should be a bit of both. It's a movie so, who cares? And if you go outside you'd see tons of people from both sexes wearing tight sexy clothing.

[Endus]

I understand that if it was jane foster butt-naked, twitter would have a meltdown n screech cancellation.

Let me guess; you think Blazing Saddles was celebrating white supremacism, don't you? You're seriously this incapable of grasping satire?