Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Delekii]

I really don't care either way, just calling a spade a spade.

Like I said, we're all just shitposting into the void here. The only difference between us is that I'm honest with myself about it. /shrug

That is your opinion, and it is one that I don't share. The game has user scores of 0.2 on meta critic and 3.7 on play store (despite Blizzard attempts at removing low scores), so the amalgamation of methods that we are using is working, unless you believe that Blizzard is happy with those scores, or doesn't care about them but for some reason still tries to moderate them.

If you "really don't care either way" you wouldn't go to the effort of posting. As I said; 130 posts in the thread. Pretending you are not heavily invested in the status quo is utterly nonsensical. You can pretend to be as blasé as you like; nobody will buy it.

[Ghost of Cow]

If you "really don't care either way" you wouldn't go to the effort of posting. As I said; 130 posts in the thread. Pretending you are not heavily invested in the status quo is utterly nonsensical. You can pretend to be as blasé as you like; nobody will buy it.

Ah yes, the old, "You're posting, so you must care an infinite amount!" logic.

99.99% of all posts on MMO-C are just shitposting nonsense. If you want to claim that everyone here is super serious about everything they post about, be my guest.

[Delekii]

Ah yes, the old, "You're posting, so you must care an infinite amount!" logic.

99.99% of all posts on MMO-C are just shitposting nonsense. If you want to claim that everyone here is super serious about everything they post about, be my guest.

Literally none of your posts have come across as shitposting nonsense in this thread. 130 of your 682 posts are in this particular thread, whose subject matter is extremely opinion-dividing and hostile. Most people who are just shitposting for the memes would not pick this thread as their modus operandi. Again; you can say whatever you like, you can be as blasé as you like; your posts speak for themselves, and they say that you are an invested party with a bull in the ring. Frankly, I'd believe that Elim Garak was memeing people before you.

[Ghost of Cow]

Literally none of your posts have come across as shitposting nonsense in this thread. 130 of your 682 posts are in this particular thread, whose subject matter is extremely opinion-dividing and hostile. Most people who are just shitposting for the memes would not pick this thread as their modus operandi. Again; you can say whatever you like, you can be as blasé as you like; your posts speak for themselves, and they say that you are an invested party with a bull in the ring. Frankly, I'd believe that Elim Garak was memeing people before you.

Jesus, get a load of the post police over here.

Just keep shining on, you crazy diamond.

[Delekii]

Jesus, get a load of the post police over here.

Just keep shining on, you crazy diamond.

I mean.. is that the best refutation you have? You were the one making the claim you don't care either way.

"2+2=circle"
"No, actually 2+2=4"
"Jesus, get a load of the math police over here"

[KrayZ33]

Jesus, get a load of the post police over here.

Just keep shining on, you crazy diamond.

If you don't care... just shut up and disengage?
If you care (and you motherfucking do, lol) keep posting like you are doing.

What's the problem. You keep posting and countering arguments even though you know it won't change anything. So how is it "beyond you" that people do it, when you are doing it yourself.

pot kettle preacher water wine or something

[Ghost of Cow]

If you don't care... just shut up and disengage?
If you care (and you motherfucking do, lol) keep posting like you are doing.

What's the problem. You keep posting and countering arguments even though you know it won't change anything. So how is it "beyond you" that people do it, knowing they do something even it won't change anything?

pot kettle preacher water wine or something

Like I said, at least I'm honest about what's going on in here. The other guy is the one acting like they're on some meaningful crusade and pulling out post numbers over and over for some reason.

I mean, if you want to actually discuss something, then go for it. Most of the posts in here are just, "MOOOOM, Ghostcrawler didn't give me a POOONNYYYYY!" over and over, so you'll have to pardon me if I get a laugh out of it.

[KrayZ33]

Like I said, at least I'm honest about what's going on in here. The other guy is the one acting like they're on some meaningful crusade and pulling out post numbers over and over for some reason.

I mean, if you want to actually discuss something, then go for it. Most of the posts in here are just, "MOOOOM, Ghostcrawler didn't give me a POOONNYYYYY!" over and over, so you'll have to pardon me if I get a laugh out of it.

I'm moving around in certain communities and get most of my information for a specific topic out of that community, if they say XY is shit, I tend to believe them and I'll usually not touch it. If the shitstorm is getting bigger and bigger, I stay away from it even further and won't even consider it anymore.
This is true everywhere, including this forum.

People saying and pointing out how shitty and pathetic D:I is, means there are people telling others in this community to stay away from it.... and not "engage with it because it's discussed so much".
Just like how people seem to be able to "overlook" the monetization in this game and "enjoy" the F2P experience, there are people who don't think "bad press is still good press" and will stay away from shit like it and don't touch it for the reasons these people argue.

I have a friend that doesn't watch movies including Tom Cruise.
Or Movies with US-war propaganda (guess which movie he didn't watch recently? )
So some people have certain values and there are those that share them and warn the others that XY is shit/against our values, so that they don't get sucked in unknowingly... or maybe even so that they boycott something.

For example: I'm not willing to give up on WoW, because many of my friends play it and I want to enjoy it with them.
But while I was a CE edition buyer (or later, whatever they called the ones from Legion onwards) I will now never, ever, consider anything but the most basic one until Blizzard makes a 180° turn. All this "bashing" and exposure to their bad practices help me realize that Blizzard didn't make that 180° turn yet. When I hear less shit about them (even though this will take a while, especially after the "sexual harassment parties" they did) it might change again. But obviously, I don't have my hopes up.

[Ghost of Cow]

I'm moving around in certain communities and get most of my information for a specific topic out of that community, if they say XY is shit, I tend to believe them and I'll usually not touch it. If the shitstorm is getting bigger and bigger, I stay away from it even further and won't even consider it anymore.
This is true everywhere, including this forum.

That's fair, it's your business, after all.

I won't say that I never get opinions from third parties - there are a few figures that I find align with my interests enough that I trust their word on things and take their recommendations for games to try out. But I won't look at broader communities in general for advice, because it's almost always going to be a shitload of noise-to-signal ratio.

[Edge-]

Why? Everybody with a brain knows that it takes ALL your money to max out a character in a f2p game. The maxing out never ENDS.

This is not remotely accurate for the majority of PC F2P games. They still have plenty of monetization options, but few monetize power in the way D:I does. And even for those that do like STO, which is one of the more aggressively monetized and outright "P2W" MMO's in the west right now, doesn't require that kind of hilariously absurd spending.

- - - Updated - - -

There is absolutely no reason for leaving a bad review on a free game you don't want to play simply because you don't want to play a f2p game because it's f2p and p2w. There's no value in that kind of review other then stroking one's ego.

Absolutely yes, you can and should. If the game experience is negatively impacted by the monetization, that's absolutely worth a negative review. F2P games don't get a pass on bad monetization because they're F2P.

[Osmeric]

Absolutely yes, you can and should. If the game experience is negatively impacted by the monetization, that's absolutely worth a negative review. F2P games don't get a pass on bad monetization because they're F2P.

I'm guess Mr. Garak would prefer a "free 2 review" site where you can vote extra times with the purchase of "vote crates".

[Elim Garak]

This is not remotely accurate for the majority of PC F2P games. They still have plenty of monetization options, but few monetize power in the way D:I does. And even for those that do like STO, which is one of the more aggressively monetized and outright "P2W" MMO's in the west right now, doesn't require that kind of hilariously absurd spending.

That's accurate for all f2p games, regardless of platform - the only way to max out your character is to play till the servers shutdown permanently - and buy everything before it happens. Maxing character is not exclusive to power. If it's just cosmetics - you max your character by buying the ones you want. And they keep adding more and more.

Even MMO with subscription are folly - each expansion and even patch invalidates previous "max out" while only a select few can actually max out in current content.

Diablo Immortal doesn't require any spending.

Absolutely yes, you can and should. If the game experience is negatively impacted by the monetization, that's absolutely worth a negative review. F2P games don't get a pass on bad monetization because they're F2P.

I was quite specific. if the only reason is the fact that the f2p game is p2w - that's not a valid reason for a bad review. It's a reason for a balanced review "Good game, but p2w".

Diablo Immortal is in no way negatively impacted by monetization.

[Kyanion]

Diablo Immortal is in no way negatively impacted by monetization.

Okay man, whatever you say.

Aren't you also the same person that claimed there is no gambling in DI?


Amazing.

[Elim Garak]

Okay man, whatever you say.

Aren't you also the same person that claimed there is no gambling in DI?


Amazing.

Amazing is that you seem to disagree but have like no argument.

[Edge-]

That's accurate for all f2p games, regardless of platform - the only way to max out your character is to play till the servers shutdown permanently - and buy everything before it happens.

Guild Wars 2 exists, and as a free player the most you'd need to shell out is $30 for the Heart of Thorns (and Path of Fire, but that's not actually needed) expansion to grant you access to legendary armor, as you have access to legendary weapons by default. Legendary gear is literally the pinnacle of power in the game.

Beyond that, few actually monetize power in the way that D:I or even STO does. DCUO, for example, only requires a sub to grant access to everything, from there all your power is earned in-game. Other MMO's may have expansions you need to purchase (like GW2) to unlock access to more powerful gear, but none of them have the kind of monetized power systems that exist in either D:I or STO.

Note: You don't even NEED legendary gear in GW2 and could do this all on a purely free account. Legendary gear has the same stats as ascended armor, which is farmable/earnable in-game via doing Fractal dungeons and crafting. You can get the strongest gear in the game purely in-game, without even needing to buy an expansion. Legendary gear just affords more flexibility as you can change the states.

Maxing character is not exclusive to power. If it's just cosmetics

This is moving the goalposts to another reality. Cosmetics have been, and will continue to be, a perfectly acceptable way to monetize games. The cosmetics, in most games (a handful have cosmetics with stats associated with them), are purely cosmetic in nature and will not alter your gameplay experience.

This is a bad-faith measure to set, since it functionally prevents any monetization of any game ever.

Even MMO with subscription are folly - each expansion and even patch invalidates previous "max out" while only a select few can actually max out in current content.

Yes, but you pay for the expansion and you're done. That's it. No needing to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to acquire power at a reasonable rate, and you can't even buy power in those games like you can in D:I.

Diablo Immortal doesn't require any spending.

Neither do any of these games. But it allows for and is very much designed around it. I can go back to cite how Blizzard absolutely hamstrung and thunderfucked the drops in D3 because they were designing much of it around the gold/RMAH's. These design considerations remain for D:I, but simply do not exist in the vast majority of other F2P MMO's that simply don't have these systems.

I was quite specific. if the only reason is the fact that the f2p game is p2w - that's not a valid reason for a bad review. It's a reason for a balanced review "Good game, but p2w".

Why not? Why is the monetization design of a game, which impacts gameplay and game design, not valid? If the monetization is so extreme it ends up harming the good core gameplay, why shouldn't that be valid?

Diablo Immortal is in no way negatively impacted by monetization.

Having played for a few weeks up until hitting Paragon levels, you either aren't playing/haven't played the game, or you're choosing to ignore them.

[Shiira]

Diablo Immortal is in no way negatively impacted by monetization.

This is an opinion, not a fact. It's also one many people clearly disagree with.

When a game only has a box price it has to stand on its actual merits, people will buy it if they think the game will be good. The game has been designed to be the best game it can be so people will buy it.

When you monetize the acquisition of power in a free to play game what you're selling people is the difference between the paid experience and the free experience. This means the free experience has not been designed to be the best experience it can be. The paid experience has to be better or people aren't going to pay.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I don't see how leaving bad reviews or sharing opinions online equates to physically breaking someone's property, one is normal behavior and the other is very illegal, but you do you. It's not the most ridiculous argument you've made this thread, probably not even top 5.

Are you getting paid hourly for this or...? I just don't understand what you're getting out of the discussion at this point.

Making what you're doing sound a lot worse than it really is by comparing it to a worse event is one of the many dishonest ways the Blizzard stans are trying to reprimand people for holding Blizzard accountable for the shitty games they've been making.

But Blizzard has been going down the toilet for years, and it's still going deeper and deeper. At this point, I'm mostly just along for the ride to watch just how many more bad games they can make before every dev is fired and the company is overhauled completely. That'd be cheaper than a few more catastrophic failures.

[Delekii]

When you monetize the acquisition of power in a free to play game what you're selling people is the difference between the paid experience and the free experience. This means the free experience has not been designed to be the best experience it can be.

This is the best way I've seen this expressed in this thread so far. The game is arbitrarily and objectively made worse, simultaneously trashing the game and commoditising the majority of players.

[Battlebeard]

This is the best way I've seen this expressed in this thread so far. The game is arbitrarily and objectively made worse, simultaneously trashing the game and commoditising the majority of players.

No, it's not a good way to express anything.

I'm Paragon 60, played a lot every day, free player, and I love this game so much. I am not feeling I am held back one inch by not spending. HOW is the monetization a problem to people?

I am not gonna be top 5 on the leaderboard for rifts, but who cares, it's a little list of names, and if you care about if your name is on it, you need to look over your life.

There is no benefit of being P2W over F2P, unless you have some weird desire to be top on the leaderboard. You can fully enjoy all the stuff the game offer, the campaign, dungeons, rifts, exploration, completing achievements etc with F2P.

[Delekii]

No, it's not a good way to express anything.

I'm Paragon 60, played a lot every day, free player, and I love this game so much. I am not feeling I am held back one inch by not spending. HOW is the monetization a problem to people?

I am not gonna be top 5 on the leaderboard for rifts, but who cares, it's a little list of names, and if you care about if your name is on it, you need to look over your life.

There is no benefit of being P2W over F2P, unless you have some weird desire to be top on the leaderboard. You can fully enjoy all the stuff the game offer, the campaign, dungeons, rifts, exploration, completing achievements etc with F2P.

If people didn't care about playing competitively and being on the leaderboard the model literally wouldn't work. You are not in the majority.

It's good you're able to enjoy that, nobody is saying you shouldn't. But make no mistake, you are functionally a commodity of Blizzard, and the game is worse for you than it would be if it were monetised in a different way.

To say that you are "not held back" requires absurd amounts of wilfull ignorance, that comment is just dumb.