Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Nyel]

This TV show will undoubtly be compared to Game of Thrones or more recently the upcoming House of Dragon. And I fear that's what's going to break it. Or break it even more, because ever since we saw and heard the first bits about it, the mean-spirited intentions have been pretty obvious.

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It's a tightrope walk. Comedy can be a great amplifier - allowing messages to be over the top but all the more effective in their impact because of it. Or they can turn serious issues into throwaway jokes, undercutting their relevance and importance with glib parody.

The Boys has both. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

At the end of the day, I only look at works as they are, and on their own merit: I don't care if they're adaptations, I don't care how much they deviate from sources or not, I don't care what genre they are, what tropes they use or eschew, or whatever else. I only care about what's actually there, how it's executed, and how well it works in the way it's presented.

It'll be the same with me for this series. It could be loosest, most liberal interpretation of Tolkien ever made and it wouldn't matter to me one bit if they do it well; or it could be a faithful adaptation down to meticulous detail, and I'd still hate it if they don't make it a good show.

That being said, from what we've seen so far I am not hopeful this will be a good show. But I don't know, since I haven't seen anything. I'll give it a shot. I don't expect much, but I'm also prepared to be positively surprised.

I think the entire Stormfront storyline in the TV show was done magnificiently and I think it transported the message very well. Just to have one positive example.

[Rennadrel]

My expectations for this show are zero because Amazon has yet to provide anything interesting or compelling as far as what the series is going to be about. I subjected myself to the first few episodes of the WoT show and couldn't stomach watching the rest because I love the books way too much to keep watching such an unfaithful adaptation that disrespects it's protagonists, invalidates major plot arcs that matter to the series while fabricating ones that didn't exist in the books. That's on top of other major glaring issues.

Considering this show is going to disrespect established characters like Galadrial by hamfisting them into roles they were never in, and the amount of obfuscation about what kind of narrative the series will have, it's going to be extremely difficult for anyone to get hyped for this show. It comes off as more of subversion of Tolkien rather than caring about the world that he created, at least for me right now.

[Mace]

There's only one gauge for whether people are going to like or appreciate it, and it's whether it's done well.

If it's a good series, then people will like it and remember it for what it is. If it is done poorly, then it will be forgotten or live on in infamy.

Whether the story is altered or not is irrelevant. Peter Jackson's LOTR Trilogy is HEAVILY altered from the original books, but it's a great movie series. Hobbit followed in the same vein, and was poorly received. Both altered many things in the books, and it wasn't down to one being more successful than the other because it stayed true to the source. Hardly the case at all.

The PJ LOTR Trilogy is so well received that most people's recollection of LOTR has become altered by the medium. For example, most people will associate Legolas having Blonde hair because of the movies, even though his hair color was never actually described in the books. Or they will see the Balrog as a winged creature, even though it was never described with wings in the books. It's not true to the source, but it has become so popular and well accepted that the alterations don't get in the way of the enjoyment of the series. That is the beauty of adaptations; they present new ways of interpreting the fiction. A winged devil-like Balrog looks more intimidating than if it did not have wings.

It's true, you forgive the alterations when the replacements are better.. sadly for most star wars releases since Disney took over, especially Obi Wan this isnt the case. Especially true with Wheel of Time. Garbage.

Wow players are use to changes, when they are good, most get on board even tho the inconsistency is annoying

[Rennadrel]

There's only one gauge for whether people are going to like or appreciate it, and it's whether it's done well.

If it's a good series, then people will like it and remember it for what it is. If it is done poorly, then it will be forgotten or live on in infamy.

Whether the story is altered or not is irrelevant. Peter Jackson's LOTR Trilogy is HEAVILY altered from the original books, but it's a great movie series. Hobbit followed in the same vein, and was poorly received. Both altered many things in the books, and it wasn't down to one being more successful than the other because it stayed true to the source. Hardly the case at all.

The PJ LOTR Trilogy is so well received that most people's recollection of LOTR has become altered by the medium. For example, most people will associate Legolas having Blonde hair because of the movies, even though his hair color was never actually described in the books. Or they will see the Balrog as a winged creature, even though it was never described with wings in the books. It's not true to the source, but it has become so popular and well accepted that the alterations don't get in the way of the enjoyment of the series. That is the beauty of adaptations; they present new ways of interpreting the fiction. A winged devil-like Balrog looks more intimidating than if it did not have wings.

The Hobbit took far more creative liberties than LOTR did as far as deviating from the source material and that is why most Tolkien diehards accept LoTR for what it is and hate The Hobbit movies. In the most important aspects of the story, they remained faithful. All I see out of Amazon's product is that they've tried to take the artistic design aspects of what Peter Jackson did and slap a different skin on it while providing no context as to the story that is being told. To me, all it looks like is a series that tries to tick off diversity checkboxes rather than introduce us to what should be a compelling story. And when, as a company, you pay "influencers" who do nothing but praise it for diversity rather than it's story, it definitely isn't going to sell it to anyone.

[tikcol]

Not terribly excited for generic fantasy trash overall. Regardless of the universe it's supposed to be based on

[Throren]

I just noticed the show has both DUrin the III and Durin the IV alive at the same time, and they are supposedly father/son, man that makes zero sense. Did they not do any research on Tolkien's work regarding dwarves?

Sure some alterations are to be expected but unlike Jackson's original trilogy who made in the grand scheme of things, fairly minor alterations, these guys are condensing the timeline and putting events and people who lived 'thousands' of years apart, next to each all in the same time period.

It's literally impossible to have two 'Durin's' alive at the same time, just...wat

[Triceron]

The Hobbit took far more creative liberties than LOTR did as far as deviating from the source material and that is why most Tolkien diehards accept LoTR for what it is and hate The Hobbit movies. In the most important aspects of the story, they remained faithful.

The Hobbit was a mess for trying to expand a short novel into 3 movies. That is basically the same problem that this series will face, by adapting appendices into a full series. Even if they stuck close to the 2nd Age source, people would undoubtedly criticize them for making something else up. Criticism of this nature is relative.

I still remember people making major criticisms of LOTR because Tom Bomadil was removed and his lines given to Treebeard. While many of us find it acceptable, there are plenty of people who also do not. Same as with Hobbit, some people find Tauriel to be acceptable, many others do not. It's all relative.

All I see out of Amazon's product is that they've tried to take the artistic design aspects of what Peter Jackson did and slap a different skin on it while providing no context as to the story that is being told. To me, all it looks like is a series that tries to tick off diversity checkboxes rather than introduce us to what should be a compelling story. And when, as a company, you pay "influencers" who do nothing but praise it for diversity rather than it's story, it definitely isn't going to sell it to anyone.

That may be true, but that exists in all media now regardless of whether it is good or bad movie. Even good movies have this. Every best Marvel movie has it, every worst Marvel movie has it, and it isn't a real big deal unless we make it one.

I enjoy the Witcher, and Game of Thrones, and I see just as much 'woke garbage' in both series if we're gonna compare it to the source. It's just a matter of what we personally consider acceptable.

[Askyl]

For me it's the exact opposite. I don't know anyone who likes and enjoys Tolkien (beyond ocassionally watching the movies) who likes this show or is positive towards it. This show is a disgrace for Tolkien and his work.

How? Just like the LoTR-trilogy maybe? Since the hate towards the show is the exact same type of hate (almost identical) to Jackssons Trilogy. And that was also a disgrace for Tolkien and his work.

You are living proof of "Haters gotta hate". You've seen a minute of random scenes and hate it for literally no reason.

[Nyel]

How? Just like the LoTR-trilogy maybe? Since the hate towards the show is the exact same type of hate (almost identical) to Jackssons Trilogy. And that was also a disgrace for Tolkien and his work.

You are living proof of "Haters gotta hate". You've seen a minute of random scenes and hate it for literally no reason.

I've seen more than a minute of a random scene. I've read the interviews. The intents. The terrible virtue-signaling. I was very much positive towards this show right until the moment we got more details from the producers. Has nothing to do with hate.

[MCMLXXXII]

So the finished product is awful?

[Rennadrel]

I've seen more than a minute of a random scene. I've read the interviews. The intents. The terrible virtue-signaling. I was very much positive towards this show right until the moment we got more details from the producers. Has nothing to do with hate.

Indifference, more than anything. I don't expect this show to be worth the money for it's budget. Considering how mediocre WoT is on a 100 million per season budget, the show just stinks of the same sort of garbage. The problem isn't even the premise, it's that literal nobodies with zero production or writing skills are being given free reign to do whatever they want with adapting someone else's work. Amazon want high production value but aren't giving the people with the talent to utilize it to full effect, so everything is cheap and lazy with terrible writing being done by people who have about a tumblr blogger's level of creative writing talent. Disney does it as well and it's been obvious in the last several films and TV series they've produced.

[VinceVega]

Oh ffs. It has been months people.... and it still is taking months for it to come out.

Don't like it don't watch it. If enough people don't like it and don't watch it they get the message and don't do it because money.

But the good old outrage crowd probably rages around for years, watches it anyway, and rages more while gobbling down every season.

And even if they don't watch it (doubt it), what does it matter? If people like it they will make it. If you don't like it but 1000 others do they are not allowed to watch/make it?
Only content for you no on else... fuck... people are so selfcentered. And then a rage circle jerk for month for a tv show they swear they won't watch....

Best example Star Trek discovery. God people hate in on the internet. And it is still succesfull. Not for you. But maybe they don't want you in the audience?

[Fabinas]

The Hobbit was a mess for trying to expand a short novel into 3 movies. That is basically the same problem that this series will face, by adapting appendices into a full series. Even if they stuck close to the 2nd Age source, people would undoubtedly criticize them for making something else up. Criticism of this nature is relative.

I still remember people making major criticisms of LOTR because Tom Bomadil was removed and his lines given to Treebeard. While many of us find it acceptable, there are plenty of people who also do not. Same as with Hobbit, some people find Tauriel to be acceptable, many others do not. It's all relative

Don't compare a finished story with known protagonists with a story bloated with nonsense just so that it can be extended to 3 movies.

I can accept the 2nd Age canvas of the series, because it has only outlines and that permits enough story freedom for the writers. So, storywise, they can go wherever they want.

Unless they give reasons for the race appearance deviations (example: buzzcut Elf is a ronin, exiled and shamed), i'll side with the hardcore fans on that hill.

[Triceron]

Don't compare a finished story with known protagonists with a story bloated with nonsense just so that it can be extended to 3 movies.

I can accept the 2nd Age canvas of the series, because it has only outlines and that permits enough story freedom for the writers. So, storywise, they can go wherever they want.

Unless they give reasons for the race appearance deviations (example: buzzcut Elf is a ronin, exiled and shamed), i'll side with the hardcore fans on that hill.

Well that's the point of contention here. They have the freedom to pivot, and at the same time they're deviating a lot from the source with creative liberties that many deem unacceptable. The conversation should really be down to individual opinions, and I think it's a problem that everyone is choosing to speak out on behalf of entire 'groups' as though everyone who likes or hates these changes are all aboard the same train. There's no unified 'hardcore fans' group. I'm a hardcore fan, and I am okay with the changes, because I simply accept any movie or film or TV series as being a self-contained adaptation of the LOTR franchise. Same as the games. Same as any modern novelizations or comics or anything done with the property moving forward. Being a Hardcore fan doesn't mean you can only enjoy an adaptation if it's completely faithful to the source.

Many hardcore fans fully embrace PJ's LOTR despite all the changes I pointed out before. Look at the clear division between Goblins and Orcs in the movies. Tolkien literally wrote Orc to be synonymous with Goblin and they have no differences. The creative liberties in the movies have utterly redefined how the masses understand Orcs and Golbins. PJ did nothing to explain any of these changes away, merely presenting them as different, unrelated species. It's up to the individual to decide whether it's an acceptable change or not, and not all Hardcore Tolkien fans will see eye to eye on something as subjective as this.

And as a general point, most people will be more accepting of creative liberties if the final product is actually good, whereas there is a higher chance that all creative liberties would be criticized if the final product was perceived as bad. A good first impression makes a huge difference. IMO, sometimes these criticisms are merely an emotional reaction rather than a formal argument that 'faithful adaptation = better'. I think people put too much emphasis on stuff like this 'ruining the franchise' when really there's room to just enjoy something for what it is without having to scrutinize it for not being authentic to the original.

And just for shits and giggles:



Shadows of Mordor. I think it was a good game with a mediocre story, and I'm fine with it completely embracing it's 'fan fiction' and doing things like making Shelob a super hot babe. I mean, no matter how they chose to portray Shelob, there's no way I would have considered this game to be an official and authentic Lord of the Rings story anyways.

[Shadowferal]

Looks a bit like Kate Beckinsale.

[Ausr]

I know they need the Tolkien estate's permission, but I would have rather have seen a 4th Age with one of Aragorn's sons post-Fellowship. While I know a big bad like Sauron couldn't ever appear, maybe they could have fleshed out the fates of the Blue Wizards.

[Khaza-R]

Wasn't sure if it was discussed yet but ngl, I kind of like their take on orcs. A bit more pallid and fallen elf looking. I guess that sort of makes up for the lame looking elves so far.



https://collider.com/lord-of-the-rin...s-prime-video/

[Orby]

they remind me of more like the orcs of Shadow of Mordor, which isn't a bad thing, :P

[Dhrizzle]

I know they need the Tolkien estate's permission, but I would have rather have seen a 4th Age with one of Aragorn's sons post-Fellowship. While I know a big bad like Sauron couldn't ever appear, maybe they could have fleshed out the fates of the Blue Wizards.

Tolkien did start writing a sequel to LotR but apparently found it too depressing. I have heard snippets that we could see the Blue Wizards in Rings of Power based on ideas Tolkien had for them being sent into the world during the Second Age to oppose Sauron.

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Wasn't sure if it was discussed yet but ngl, I kind of like their take on orcs. A bit more pallid and fallen elf looking. I guess that sort of makes up for the lame looking elves so far.



https://collider.com/lord-of-the-rin...s-prime-video/

I have to say I'm really liking the orcs here. Even if the series turns out to suck at least this bit is money well spent.

[Ausr]

Tolkien did start writing a sequel to LotR but apparently found it too depressing. I have heard snippets that we could see the Blue Wizards in Rings of Power based on ideas Tolkien had for them being sent into the world during the Second Age to oppose Sauron.

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I have to say I'm really liking the orcs here. Even if the series turns out to suck at least this bit is money well spent.

Surprised to hear that since it was supposed to be all good and rosy after taking down Sauron.