Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[owbu]

Tuning is not binary (keep it as it or overtune it)

Just because original Sunwell was overtuned, doesn't mean that original naxx 80 isn't so easy, that even the daddiest of daddy guilds will have no problems with a buffed version. As long as they don't screw up the tuning and make it as hard as Sunwell. Which they wont.

My original guild struggled in Sunwell and was bored to death with Naxx 80.
My current classic guild struggles in Sunwell and will blast through Naxx, even if they buff it to the point, that you sometimes have to understand a mechanic before the boss dies.

[Kralljin]

I think the original Vanilla WoW, and then BC, ground up and spat out a lot of casual players. Those original iterations were terrible for casuals; the only saving grace was most of them didn't know enough to realize how they were being treated. But that ignorance is long gone. I don't think Classic and Classic BC attracted back very many of them.

I'm not going to argue about whether those iterations were casual friendly or not because you are certainly not the person i'm going to argue about this.

But the undenieable truth is that way more players managed to clear Classic Naxx in 2019 than in 2006 (both absolute and relative).
And many more also managed to clear SWP in 2022 than in 2008 (again,both absolute and relative).

That's just the reality, what was considered "hardcore content" in 2006 / 2008 is now easily accessible to the majority of the playerbase over a decade later.
Numbers don't lie on that front.

And again, this doesn't even address the fact that, overall, the average raid with 3.3.5 classes is stronger than a 3.0 one, barring you heavily abuse any broken classes.

[McNeil]

Naxx10/25 back in the days was already way to easy, and now players are even better so it would just be a complete pushover. I expect it will still be easier than Ulduar/ICC and for an introductory raid it should fill its purpose to get people geared without dozing off. Buffing Naxx and heroic dungeons is actually one of the better choices they made, coming from someone who considers WotLK his favorite expansion. The undertuned content has always been its biggest issue and people were quite vocal about it back then.

[Vapo]

Naxx realm firsts were done with ppl who didnt even hit 80 and were using SWP/Greens. like massive buffs are definitely warranted.

[ResentfulUK]

Yeah I read this more along the lines of them making it not a joke like it was originally, not that it's going to be a tough raid.

Naxxramas at launch was insanely easy. I honestly think that if it was released without any adjustments it'd be cleared by every guild, group and pug within the first week.

There are little to no mechanics that are deadly or a problem with the current iteration. It needs a buff to make it a little harder to complete.

It won't be SWP level of difficulty by any measure. It'll be more akin to its regular self but with maybe 10% more damage and health.

[Mendzia]

I won't change anything.
It will be still fucking joke as hell.
1st WotLK tier is one of the easiest this game ever had.

[Snackpack]

Tier 5 pre-nerf and SWP were by far my favorite parts of TBC Classic. We're a dad guild and we did just fine. Downing bosses in 1-2 attempts is the real guild killer, imo. You can only farm the same easy bosses for so long before people get bored.

[Tiwack]

I agree but unfortunately blizz only listens to the very vocal minority of super elite gamers that play the game for a living.

We'll see how they decide to buff it... Probably gonna be a shitshow idd.

[tikcol]

As you might know, Naxx in WotLK Classic will be buffed and harder than it was back in the day. Some people cheer for this, but I think this will be a HUGE disaster for the game. Now, I will generalize some, and I don't speak for everyone, but I know many agree with me. Read everything before you comment please!

Lets face it, WoW Classic is the "dad-gamer" version of WoW. While there are some super tryhards, most of us are 30-40+ and have quite busy lives. Whether we have kids or not, being called "boomer" or "dad gamer" or even "casual" make most of us say "yeah, true" rather than getting upset. Where am I getting at? I'm getting at that many of us do NOT appriciate difficulty, and what we love of Classic is a nostalgic trip back in time, chill easy raids, and laughs with friends. If we wanted challenge, we'd play Retail.

The proof is out there. Classic since 2019 has been GREAT with a few exceptions, or rather 2 moments of total despair, Tier 5 pre-nerf and SWP. There is no coincidence tons and tons of guilds fell appart at those moments and that tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands of players quit. T5 and especially SWP was freaking awful and ruined so much of what we love with the idea of Classic.

For many, maybe even most of us "dad gamers", guildraiding is simply not an option, and hasn't been needed outside of pre-nerf T5 and SWP. Our lives are simply too busy. And that is fine. This is the version of the game that you should be able to Pug all the way. Do not say this game is made for guilds, cause it's simply not true. "Join a guild" is not an option and not relevant in this discussion. Anyway, SWP is completely unpugable. The only succesful pugs I've seen on Firemaw EU (the biggest server in Europe) are semi guild runs (which aren't really pugs) and GDKP runs. Doing like "hm, I got some spare time, lets run SWP, ok going trade chat LFM SWP Need..." days didn't exist now, and with the buffs to Naxxramas, they will still be non existent.

This is terrible. I hyped WotLK so much, for many, many months. Since I killed Illidan in January with a pug, I have hyped this, cause I knew the game soon (with SWP release) would be unplayable and I looked forward to easier content. Now, there is no hype. I am not sure I will do ANY boss in WotLK, and since I love raiding, should I even play it? Now, if you think "your loss", do you really think it's just our loss, when you start seeing thousands and thousands of people quit?

Look, T5 and SWP almost KILLED Classic TBC since it killed pugging. And worse yet, it's part of the continued growth of the cancer that is GDKP. People complain and rage over Diablo Immortal, but TBC is even more P2W with this plague that is GDKP. Cause lets face it, the ONLY way to experience SWP right now is to join a GDKP, and you can't get in those unless you are rich, hence making the game completely P2W.

What do you think is gonna happen with buffed Naxx. Soft Reset pugs will DIE. Pugging will DIE. Guild raiding is not an option for so many, many, many of us, our only 2 options will be to quit, or to basically buy gold and join GDKP runs of Naxx, making it further P2W. Does ANYONE think this is healthy for the game?

There are no winners with buffed Naxxramas. NO ONE wins with this. Buffed Naxx will be too hard for us dad gamers, but still give ZERO prestige for guilds, as it's STILL MUCH EASIER than anything retail offer, so who actually wants it buffed? Buffed Naxxramas will lead to so many thousands of people quitting, and those who stay will plague the game by making the dispicable thing that is GDKP even bigger. If you think GDKP is bad now, it's gonna get ten times worse in WotLK.

What are your thoughts? Do you think Blizz will nerf it after a while? Maybe even pre-launch? Do you think this can lead to the end of WoW Classic? I already predicted ICC will kill the game, and that Cataclysm will never happen, because those 2 are far too hard for what most people want. But that's far ahead, could this game be doomed even before we get it?

People are pugging sunwell nonstop. How did it stop in t5? That's just lying

[callipygoustp]

No changes!

[Greyvax]

i don't think it will be a big deal. look how easy classic raids were.

[hzjf]

oh no. they are buffing the easiest Raid in WoW History to make it slightly less easy

OH NO ((((


i cant

its so hard

you have to fight 20sec longer now


HOW WILL WE MANAGE ?

fyi.. Wotlk Naxx was cleared in TBC Gear

[Zardas]

Even buffed, the hardest thing in the raid will be to not fall asleep until the final blow to KT

[Popastique]

For many, maybe even most of us "dad gamers", guildraiding is simply not an option, and hasn't been needed outside of pre-nerf T5 and SWP. Our lives are simply too busy. And that is fine. This is the version of the game that you should be able to Pug all the way. Do not say this game is made for guilds, cause it's simply not true. "Join a guild" is not an option and not relevant in this discussion.

Why? What about creating some *dad gamer* guild and raiding once per week when people have time?

[Battlebeard]

Literally, no one is agreeing with you. lol

Crying over something that hasn't even happened yet. How are kids these days so pathetic?

Yes, they said they will buff it because as others have said, you could clear it in greens/blues. That's far too easy if the gear isn't one of determining factors in if you succeed or fail. Do you not know where the term patchwork came from? It was from this raid tier because the boss stood there and was just a DPS race. That's how easy this place was, so many bosses where you tank/spank, and nothing else.

But here you are, crying already.

Kids these days? I just refered to myself as a dad gamer :P

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If they don't buff it, it will be cleared on the first night people can pull together enough people at a high enough level. There's nothing fun about that. We'll be asking for Ulduar by the 3rd day. At least if they buff it, there will be slight excitement for some of the gear it drops.

Yes, it is fun with that. It helps the community to make it inclusive. We don't want elitism in classic. We don't want "link achiv" and "inspect for gear" to be a too big part of the game. The easier the raid, the less of that crap.

[frapes]

It was cake with t6-sunwell gear. Barely changed anything while questing back in the day.

[Battlebeard]

Didnt even read the post but the moment I saw the avatar I knew exactly what it would be about.

-Crying about being a 40+ dad
-Crying about difficulty
-Crying about time commitment even though from his other posts I would take an educated guess that he spends an absurd amount of time on the game.
-Crying about not being able to press 3 buttons and side step a cone ability or being able to tell + from - on thadius.

Supreme post

I'm "crying" because:

- I expect wipe after wipe after wipe, clearing a few bosses at max, and if people don't leave at a wipe it's a miracle.
- I expect there will be extreme demands to join, gear, achievements etc, making it nearly impossible to find a raid.
- I expect pug raiding to die completely, and the only chance I ever have at clearing Naxx is with GDKP and that sucks.

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Literally Everyone I am raiding with hoped / asked for this.

OT:
You are blowing this way out of proportion. Also the time the game almost died in pre-nerf T5? Strangely never happened on my server.

I think you really overestimate the impact you "gamer dad's" have on the game.

But why? This is suppose to be the casual nostalgic exprience of WoW. If you want challenge, why don't you play retail?

[Tonkaden]

It won't be too hard at all.

Original Naxx was too easy for everybody. They simply want to make it so you can't walk into 10 man Naxx and clear it with level 77 greens like you could in real Wrath

Hate to tell ya, but its going to be cleared in 77 greens regardless. The mechanics are too easy. Buffing HP and boss damage wont change anything.

[Battlebeard]

So, I basically fit your criteria you have written OP, 30-40, have wife, have kids, have job ... and I still think Naxx will be easy even after buff, seems by your post history, that you just complain and complain like you want to turn the game into some version where you could just collect "pat on the back" currency for logging in, go straight to vendor and buy BiS gear for it.

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also, there are 3 posts that support your cause in whole thread (including your OP) out of 40 in total, that doesnt sound like "many agree with you" as you said.

You gotta remember tho that MMO-Champion is a fan site. Most people here support ANY decision Blizzard make.

If you look at Discord or even in game, it's a completely different thing.

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Naxx realm firsts were done with ppl who didnt even hit 80 and were using SWP/Greens. like massive buffs are definitely warranted.

Warranted for what? Who says the game has to offer a higher challenge?

Look at Molten Core, the greatest time I ever had in the game back in 2019. It was chill, easy, near unwipeable and you could bring ANY 40 players and still one shot it. It was AMAZING. The community was nicer back then, less toxicity, less elitism, and raiding felt really fun.

Wipes create toxicity. No thanks.

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Why? What about creating some *dad gamer* guild and raiding once per week when people have time?

Many of us can't commit to raiding the same time every week. Things can (and will) come in the way eventually, whether it's work or family stuff.

Pugging is golden, whenever you get a few free hours, you decide when to play, as it's almost always some pug active. However with buffed Naxx, I fear finding a pug will be near impossible, as pugs won't be able to clear it.

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I won't change anything.
It will be still fucking joke as hell.
1st WotLK tier is one of the easiest this game ever had.

I truly hope you are right, but I fear it will crawl with wipes and disbands, killing non-gdkp pugging

Even back in 2008, a few bosses usually caused wipes for pugs, like Patchwerk, Sapphiron, Kelthuzad etc.

[Tonkaden]

I truly hope you are right, but I fear it will crawl with wipes and disbands, killing non-gdkp pugging

Even back in 2008, a few bosses usually caused wipes for pugs, like Patchwerk, Sapphiron, Kelthuzad etc.

Youre way overestimating how difficult it will be lol. Naxx isnt going to kill any guilds at all. They are buffing hp and dmg, not mechanics. They dumbed down a lot of mechanics for the wrath version. Those arent being reversed.