Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[Kralljin]

I mean, what are you going to do once Ulduar comes out? I'd say 25naxx is much easier than even 10Ulduar.

Create the very same thread and complain that 2009 tuning is too hard for "us dad gamers".

[Battlebeard]

Take this from a dad gamer who has played private servers who have made content harder for the fun of it…. Pugs will be rolling through all content minus MAYBE ICC heroic, TOGC, and hard modes and MAYBE even yog.

They could buff the shit out of nax and it’s still going to be a cake walk. Not even a question. The mechanics are the only check in that raid and they are all piss easy. PISS easy.

I hope you are right, but I fear the worst.

At best it will match BT, which is doable but require crazy good organization. Most pugs only cleared 4/9 and the best cleared 9/9.

Still too hard for many of us

[Dropakeg]

Right? I'm 36 and have cleared CE in retail in multiple xpacs. They can buff naxx like crazy and I'll enjoy it all the more.

[Battlebeard]

Right? I'm 36 and have cleared CE in retail in multiple xpacs. They can buff naxx like crazy and I'll enjoy it all the more.

Sounds like you should play retail.

I want a game that is not tryhard, minmaxing etc. Where it’s not the end of the world if you don’t have all consumes or enchants. Where people don’t judge logs or achievements, but rather appriciate good times and goofing around a little. Its a game after all, its meant to be fun.

For years brutal difficulties have split the playerbase, excluded many and created toxicity.

[Tojara]

Nobody even knows what these buffs entail lol, so it's pure speculative.

Lots of people like to white knight WoTLK but for me, the original launch was simply not all of that fun aside from DKs (and rolling a DK). My experience? Boredom. The only barrier to doing Naxxaramas was getting people into the dungeon, aside from that it was free. This isn't free in the sense of hardcore talking down on people who aren't as prepared, but literally free. At least when groups were doing MC in the Classic servers a couple years ago a ton of preparation was put into that, despite how easy the raid actually was. Naxxaramas is literally going to be that, but without any forward thinking aside from getting to 80 as quickly as possible.

WoTLK was the first time I contemplated quitting the game until something new came out. The direction was obvious. Put achievements in the game to 'mirror' difficulty if people wanted to chase them, while making the base encounters themselves not difficult at all. This sucked for me, and aside from 3D Sartharion, there was nothing remotely challenging in WoTLK until Ulduar was released.

I totally get it BTW. Hard content isn't necessarily the determining factor in making the game always fun, but a lot of you are seriously dismissing how easy and how worthless content was on launch WoTLK. You could literally walk into Naxx without even touching end game dungeons, and speed run your way to victory with very little resistance. Sunwell and BT gear makes this easier sure, but there were plenty of groups that did it with just leveling greens and blues (yes, Naxx was this easy). It literally felt like the entire community was world first raiders.

It doesn't need to be hard but I think you're seriously going to hurt the game if the dungeons and main raid aren't somewhat challenging. Does it need to be SSK/TK hard? No. But doesn't need to be as pitiful as Molten Core either. I think Blizzard knows this and at the end of the day them buffing some of the values or making certain aspects harder aren't going to break the game. Making it so the 'core' of your audience might have to do some dungeons upon hitting 80 before smashing Naxxaramas hardly seems like a big deal.

The dungeons and Naxx were insultingly easy. Considering player skill has advanced and everything is known, driving some balancing factors upwards is absolutely the correct way to do things. People had a love/hate relationship with WoTLK dungeons because there was no careful pulling anymore, it was the age of run through the instance and AoE everything down. Which is a shame because the WoTLK dungeons are way cooler them and boss mechanic wise than TBC hallways where the challenge with random mobs that did "hurp derp damage, with random secondary CC attached to their auto attacks".

TLDR; Every boss doesn't need to be 3D Sartharion difficulty, or honestly, even Malygos. But some of the bosses being like Malygos level or even KT being an actual challenge wouldn't be the end of the world. Nobody is asking for fucking Ulduar, and if you're going to stick to WoTLK Ulduar is going to be something you have to get use to anyways lol.

Naxx was mechanically and numerically too easy. They flat out removed a lot of mechanics from the OG version (granted some of the trash was gnarly, and some mechanics were dumb (like mind controls on KT, love that shit).

[varren]

Depends how it's buffed. Original 2008 Naxx was a complete steamroll even for the most casual of dad guilds. Personally I think adding a Heroic Naxx would have been more interesting.

[Hungrydingo]

If T5 and T6 raids were blown threw easily, Naxx is going to be hilariously easy. That raid was easy in week 1. Those BC raids were cleared by like 1% of the player base. I bet the average player could clear Naxx at the lowest possible level (which was 77 at the time I think?) in quest greens.

[Celarent]

So, the flipside of this is if the buff is only enough to keep most players from cruising through Day One of dinging, supergamerbros need to accept that it's not a worthy challenge for their world-class pedigree and get on with life.

[anveena]

Sounds like you should play retail.

I want a game that is not tryhard, minmaxing etc. Where it’s not the end of the world if you don’t have all consumes or enchants. Where people don’t judge logs or achievements, but rather appriciate good times and goofing around a little. Its a game after all, its meant to be fun.

For years brutal difficulties have split the playerbase, excluded many and created toxicity.

Sounds like you should be playing retail as well. LFR was put in for a reason and you seem to be that.

[Eldar45]

Of course they're buffing Naxx. The devs still on the WoW team detest lesser players. I mean, they really despise them. They wish they'd all just go away so they can make the game they want to make.

I suggest you follow their cue and just avoid Wrath Classic (and WoW in general.) Why send money that's going to pay the salaries of people who hate you?

It appears that they are making it linier in difficulty with Ulduar. It'll be as easy as Kara.

[Battlebeard]

Sounds like you should be playing retail as well. LFR was put in for a reason and you seem to be that.

LFR has been ruined to the point of no return. 10+ minute bosses with oneshot mechanics, hardly LFR anymore.

[Woods123]

I hope you are right, but I fear the worst.

At best it will match BT, which is doable but require crazy good organization. Most pugs only cleared 4/9 and the best cleared 9/9.

Still too hard for many of us

It won’t even be close to as hard as bt even with buffs

[Battlebeard]

If buffing the easiest raid in the game a bit makes you think it will be to hard then you shouldn't be raiding.

It's not just about this raid though, it's more about the future of the game. If this gets buffed, what else will get buffed, where will it end?

[Raziel1258]

where will it end?

It will end in acceptable state for majority of people, which you clearly are not part of.

[Maruka]

I think a 30 percent flat buff would be fine.

[Rendark]

It's not just about this raid though, it's more about the future of the game. If this gets buffed, what else will get buffed, where will it end?

That's easy, it will end with naxx.

[Nerph-]

You gotta remember tho that MMO-Champion is a fan site. Most people here support ANY decision Blizzard make.

If you look at Discord or even in game, it's a completely different thing.

I hate to say it but this right here just confirms you're delusional. The amount of crap thrown Blizzard's way in the comments of every news post (often justified) clearly shows the users of MMO-Champion do not support any decision Blizzard makes.

Heck reading through this thread and reading your posts, I honestly can't tell if you're delusional or just trolling.

Wotlk's version of Naxx was insanely easy back in the day and would have been really, really boring had they not buffed the hp and damage.

[deenman]

dude,wrath naxx was a meme,you know how we joke today about classic getting cleared with non 60's and in like less than an 1h? well thats pretty much what happened with naxx all the way back in 2008! every single raid that was on launch was cleared in the same day,i may be remembering wrong but i think it was even on the day of actual release....like people got to 80 and did it ALL in the same day

they would have to buff its numbers to obscene levels and add new mecanics to make it even barely a challenge

[Nzx]

This thread is pitiful.

I've got less time for pug raiding and more time for organised raiding as I've gotten older. I used to be able to start a pug at 11pm on a Tuesday and stick with it until it fell apart, now I need to schedule if I want to have 2+ hours available to game in one go - i.e. guilds are infinitely better. Similarly, some of the best players I've ever raided mythic with are 40-50 year olds with kids and real jobs. I also know one of the top M+ healers in the entire world right now has a kid and a job.

If LFR and even Normal are too hard for you, then raiding is not for you. The entire premise of this thread is just a complete falsehood.

tl;dr man who posts on fan-forum an average of almost once a day for 10 years says he doesn't have enough time to play videogame

[Bramickias]

It's not just about this raid though, it's more about the future of the game. If this gets buffed, what else will get buffed, where will it end?

It will end with Naxx. Even Molten Core is a hardcore raid next to Naxx10 and Naxx25. Sarth25 with no drakes is harder then Naxx25. Everything was so weak in Naxx25 that after 2 weeks of clearing, we were 3 healing it because healers had nothing to do otherwise. That was all without BiS lists, any min/max or serious use of consumables for a /trade recruiting guild.
Buffing the raids will end with Naxx10/25 because that raid was not designed for tanks with real aoe tanking or having multiple defensive cooldowns, dps having self heals and serious aoe, or healers having access to mana for so long with so much aoe and smart healing. Sapphiron frost aoe was so weak and healing so strong that frost resist was completely meaningless for this version. Unless they straight up double the damage output (and i doubt they'll buff damage output more then 20-30%), it will still be meaningless for the below average guild. Naxx10 wasn't just easy, it was easier then killing Heroic Loken and Heroic Anub'arak.