WOTLK was a bad expansion for pvp

[Drosul]

Have we ever had an objectively good expansion for PvP? Like, I've always enjoyed PvP but I can't ever think of a time where you couldn't make the complaints your making here in some form.

MoP is often looked back upon fondly.... and I personally really enjoyed Legion a bunch... I'd even say SOME of WoD had some very nice qualities with how the gearing system worked back then (getting up to 3pc each week from arenas, (tr)Ashran, and winning the highmaul coliseum 15-25player FFA event)...

But yeah, your point is correct, in every single expansion there's been something that was terribly balanced, often at the start of the expansion.

[Nak88]

Have we ever had an objectively good expansion for PvP? Like, I've always enjoyed PvP but I can't ever think of a time where you couldn't make the complaints your making here in some form.

The general consensus is that Cataclysm was the greatest expansion in terms of PvP.

[erifwodahs]

wrath in season 8 was the golden age of wow pvp, everyone was exceptionally strong(healers and DPS alike)

Dude is either thinking about tanks in S7 or DK/Paladins in Seasons 5 and 6.

The other possibility is that OP is talking out of his ass, with zero knowledge of how it played out while assuming "high end" wotlk pve gear won't be available to anyone and everyone willing to pug for 15 minutes.

So.. 1 season out of 4 was good? If the the salad in your meal was good but meat, potatoes and the drink was okay plus you had something in it which you hated. Was that a great meal or meh?

[Recovery]

Full in denial with nothing to back i up, mad as fuck because he knows all i am saying is the truth.

Go to a pserver right now, see who is right and who is lying, all you need to know people.

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People are already moving the goalpost to no deny but to admit they were OP and now they are justifying it.

I AM RIGHT.

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Go to any pserver right now, you get free 80 with relentless gear, see how much you last compared to people in full BIS gear LMAO. Saying gear is not a problem is a lie.

Just give it up. Anyone that ACTUALLY knows what they're talking about can see straight through you. Youre a multi 1600 player than instead of learning what theyre doing and improving blames their sub par play on the game.

Give it a rest and move on. Go play Stardew Valley if you cant hang in wrath. Why play or talk about something that makes you this unhappy?

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So.. 1 season out of 4 was good? If the the salad in your meal was good but meat, potatoes and the drink was okay plus you had something in it which you hated. Was that a great meal or meh?

To be honest, season 6-8 were all good. Season 5 was shaky because DKs were released WAY op, rets were basically reworked and a little crazy on release, and hunters scaled really well with players having low armor and not much resil. Season 8 was just REALLY good as the last season of an expansion has notoriously been.

Players who are actually good at the game dont care about OP gimmicks. What we care about are representation. Is this class glad viable? Is this comp glad viable? is there diversity? Are we going to q into more than 1 comp above a certain level?

Those are the things that matter. You CAN outskill Shadowmourne / DBW.

[giantspider]

MoP is often looked back upon fondly.... and I personally really enjoyed Legion a bunch... I'd even say SOME of WoD had some very nice qualities with how the gearing system worked back then (getting up to 3pc each week from arenas, (tr)Ashran, and winning the highmaul coliseum 15-25player FFA event)...

But yeah, your point is correct, in every single expansion there's been something that was terribly balanced, often at the start of the expansion.

who cares if wod pvp gearing was good (it was), when pvp gameplay wise was completely bad - if u played meta turbo or rmd, u maybe had a little bit fun, but it was still super bad

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Are you sure? I seem to recall WotLK being the immortal healer start. Heals were huge numbers in Wrath, due to their design philosophy at the time that healer mana was practically infinite so they tried to counter in raids by having boss hits do huge spiking values, which of course made their heals huge in pvp. Also I'm fairly positive that Wrath was the expansion that the MS effect got nerfed to 25% down from 50% for every class except Warriors whose titular ability remained at 50%.So infinite mana + Huge spikey heals and the heal reducing effect was nerfed meant healers walked around as gods.

im pretty sure MS effect was nerfed in cata or mop, not in wotlk

[Recovery]

The general consensus is that Cataclysm was the greatest expansion in terms of PvP.

Cata was good in terms of everything. I played all parts of the game in cata.

Dungeons were ACTUALLY difficult on release! They took skill. The average player doesnt like when their loot isnt free. That's why you have the vocal majority crying about the dungeons.

It was the easiest time in the history of wow to have an alt. For the first time ever, i had 5 classes at 85 with full gear.

PvP was arguably the best its every been, with the exception of stampede bug and stuff in season 9.

I didnt see anythign wrong with PVE. The opening raids were fun, firelands was a great large scale raid, and dragon soul introduced some cool new raid mechanics that hadnt really been seen previously.

Transmog was introduced. Reforging was one of the best systems for gearing that the game has EVER seen.

RBGs were introduced and well received, other than CR / MMR exploits.

Guild achievements were awesome. I made so much gold from getting guilds the pvp achievements.


I really have never understood why cata received hate. I cant think of a single expansion that was better than cata. The only one that comes close / is arguably better would be MoP.

I think most people base what they perceive as the "best expansion" or a "good expansion" around what gave them the best sense of nostalgia. For example: When they performed the best in raid, when they got their first 2200 or glad title, etc.. Too few people actually base the game around the actual game.

I feel as though if you took the difficulty and replayability of today's pve scene and inserted into cataclysm, people would play it, love it, and never look back.

[Woods123]

I can’t believe this post has 4 pages, you guys are eating his bait up so hard.

[kironto]

All this time later, and people still only remember DKs from season 5....

CONVENIENTLY always forgetting that Blizz nearly bludgeoned them to death with the nerf bat in S6.... The class was the most populated class in game at the time, and had less than half the representation above 2k as the 2nd worse class, hunters, a class that itself was considered to be "broken" at the time.

They recovered back to viability in further patches, and ended up in a solid place by S8...... but even with Smourne, and 100% ArP warriors/rogues running about in that season, I'd much much rather have been a caster at that time. Destro and Ele in particular where absolute monsters with Dislodged Foreign Object.

No, the only convinient thing is LIARS like you always trying o misguide people ino believeing we are talking about that period of time when in fact I AM TALKING OF PATCH 3.3.3a when in FACT, Dk'S ARE still very broken and are still the alpha class that has no counters.

LMAO you rather be a caster you say? you can not be more dishonest, a caster has no chance vs a DK.

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Yeah... who thougth otherwise? Balance between classes should not be worth more than class diversity. In Retail they moved to every class being interchangable with every other. Wotlk had still a bit of class identity. Some classes have been a good deal stronger than others but that is something i can live with as long as the class feels good. You still can raid and raids take you.

Also: Wow never was a big PvP game. PvE was always the focus.... like every single MMORPG. (that is why New World suddenly pulled dungeons out of nowhere) so don't chance classes/balance for PvP and affect PvE with it in turn.

PvE > PvP.

You will no have class diversity when there is clearly broken classes mate, people will roll those broken classes and there goes your "diversity".

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Just give it up. Anyone that ACTUALLY knows what they're talking about can see straight through you. Youre a multi 1600 player than instead of learning what theyre doing and improving blames their sub par play on the game.

Give it a rest and move on. Go play Stardew Valley if you cant hang in wrath. Why play or talk about something that makes you this unhappy?

Like I said, people like you use insults and adhominem attacks because you are mad as fuck because someone sees the truth and exposes it as it is, you can not handle that your world is being crumbled in front of you and someone tells you: "you are not good, your game is garbage, you use garbage broken clases, the thing you care so much about is garbage" your fragile ego can't handle that, typical fanboy.

[wushootaki]

Many people will lose their rose tinted colored glasses hard when they play WOTLK this time around:

• Healers are broken and unkillable
• Damage from pve gear was broken hence you needed pve items to pvp and there were specs out there using full pve items to onseshot people
• Paladins and Death knights are completely broken OP
• Shadowmourne
• Classes were really imbalanced, people say in this expansion everybody was almost on the same level that is an outright lie
• Forced arenas. Gear is behing arena rating, so people that get there first get an artificial and unfair advantage that will make harder for others to aquire this gear, is complete moronic, imagine if in any pvp game people in higher ranks on top of being better at the game also got bonus to their damage and defense just for being higher than you.

It is really bad, you will see, all you need to do is go to a famous pserver and test the waters there, you will see combat rogues in full pve oneshotting people, paladins that end up leaving both their duels because they can't litterally kill one another due to infinite mana and heals, broken Shadowmourne users oneshoting people left and right, Death knights with litterally no counter class stomping everyone on the ground. Hunters with double Deterrence and tons of traps and slows that will never let you get close to them, healers in BG's deciding who wins because they are completely broken and need at the very minimum 2 skilled players using all their CD's to TRY to kill them because I have seen them surivive 5 people on them.

It's litterally a shitshow. This was bad back in the day where not everybody was minmaxing and tryharding, this will be terrible when this launches, everyone will be the same OP classes, everyone on the same OP specs etc. etc. it will be super toxic.

Play an enh shaman and hard counter Death Knights all expansion - you're welcome.

Grounding Totem the death grip
Cleanse the diseases
Chip them down with Searing Totem dmg which bypasses armor, after you lock them in place with frozen power and pin them between you and earthbind totem

rinse, repeat


played correctly, an Enh sham should never lose to any death knight in WotLK. You are legit a hard counter.

[Miseration]

I just miss Armor Pen

[Fkiolaris]

PvP Gear having rating requirements on it was utter bollocks, I will agree with that

[VinceVega]

No, the only convinient thing is LIARS like you always trying o misguide people ino believeing we are talking about that period of time when in fact I AM TALKING OF PATCH 3.3.3a when in FACT, Dk'S ARE still very broken and are still the alpha class that has no counters.

LMAO you rather be a caster you say? you can not be more dishonest, a caster has no chance vs a DK.

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You will no have class diversity when there is clearly broken classes mate, people will roll those broken classes and there goes your "diversity".

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Like I said, people like you use insults and adhominem attacks because you are mad as fuck because someone sees the truth and exposes it as it is, you can not handle that your world is being crumbled in front of you and someone tells you: "you are not good, your game is garbage, you use garbage broken clases, the thing you care so much about is garbage" your fragile ego can't handle that, typical fanboy.

There have been so many Moonkins in TBC Classic... like SOOOOO many. And they are next to useless if we are being honest and damage wise worse than nearly every other spec in the game.
In retail maybe. In a rereleased expansion... it doesn't matter. Everyone knows what to do. Everyone can play whatever they want. And they do.

[ldev]

Yeah dude you totally got me and everything I said is a lie now. Maybe up your IQ and stop using fallacies (red herring, appeal to ridicule) to try (and fail) to make an argument.

So are healers unkillable or getting one shotted? I need to know.

[Recovery]

No, the only convinient thing is LIARS like you always trying o misguide people ino believeing we are talking about that period of time when in fact I AM TALKING OF PATCH 3.3.3a when in FACT, Dk'S ARE still very broken and are still the alpha class that has no counters.

LMAO you rather be a caster you say? you can not be more dishonest, a caster has no chance vs a DK.

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You will no have class diversity when there is clearly broken classes mate, people will roll those broken classes and there goes your "diversity".

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Like I said, people like you use insults and adhominem attacks because you are mad as fuck because someone sees the truth and exposes it as it is, you can not handle that your world is being crumbled in front of you and someone tells you: "you are not good, your game is garbage, you use garbage broken clases, the thing you care so much about is garbage" your fragile ego can't handle that, typical fanboy.

No, the only convinient thing is LIARS like you always trying o misguide people ino believeing we are talking about that period of time when in fact I AM TALKING OF PATCH 3.3.3a when in FACT, Dk'S ARE still very broken and are still the alpha class that has no counters.

LMAO you rather be a caster you say? you can not be more dishonest, a caster has no chance vs a DK.

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You will no have class diversity when there is clearly broken classes mate, people will roll those broken classes and there goes your "diversity".

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Like I said, people like you use insults and adhominem attacks because you are mad as fuck because someone sees the truth and exposes it as it is, you can not handle that your world is being crumbled in front of you and someone tells you: "you are not good, your game is garbage, you use garbage broken clases, the thing you care so much about is garbage" your fragile ego can't handle that, typical fanboy.

Ya know whats weird?

I go to the warmane 3s ladder... (the most popular wrath pserver)

I look at the top 20 teams...

Oddly enough, I see 2 death knights.

I see 10 lock shaman teams.. Rather weird that Dks are so op that there shouldnt be a caster in site, yet they far exceed the amount of DKs in the top 20 teams..

So i decide to look at how it was during actual season 8 to refresh my memory.. I load up the wayback machine and find a copy of the ladder. The ladder reveals a shit ton of Lock shaman and lock mage and very few DK teams.. Weird, almost like it shows precisely what a few of us have already said. You can look all of this up yourself btw..

OR you can keep being an ignorant turd and popping off with senseless horse bologna. Up to you.

WEIRD

[Woods123]

Ya know whats weird?

I go to the warmane 3s ladder... (the most popular wrath pserver)

I look at the top 20 teams...

Oddly enough, I see 2 death knights.

I see 10 lock shaman teams.. Rather weird that Dks are so op that there shouldnt be a caster in site, yet they far exceed the amount of DKs in the top 20 teams..

So i decide to look at how it was during actual season 8 to refresh my memory.. I load up the wayback machine and find a copy of the ladder. The ladder reveals a shit ton of Lock shaman and lock mage and very few DK teams.. Weird, almost like it shows precisely what a few of us have already said. You can look all of this up yourself btw..

OR you can keep being an ignorant turd and popping off with senseless horse bologna. Up to you.

WEIRD

The guy is clearly trolling. He doesn’t even pvp

[MuricaIsDead]

TLDR OP:

Retarded take. Wrath was awesome for pvp, you just need to get some decent resilience gear.

I think you may be thinking of cataclysm, where health pool increased by 5 TIMES, and healers did actually become unkillable.

I spent most of my time in WG during wrath and had no trouble taking down most healers as a DK, rogue, or warlock.

[kironto]

So are healers unkillable or getting one shotted? I need to know.

Doubling down on your stupidity doesn't make you righ.

[Woods123]

Doubling down on your stupidity doesn't make you righ.

So which is it?

[kironto]

Ya know whats weird?

I go to the warmane 3s ladder... (the most popular wrath pserver)

I look at the top 20 teams...

Oddly enough, I see 2 death knights.

I see 10 lock shaman teams.. Rather weird that Dks are so op that there shouldnt be a caster in site, yet they far exceed the amount of DKs in the top 20 teams..

So i decide to look at how it was during actual season 8 to refresh my memory.. I load up the wayback machine and find a copy of the ladder. The ladder reveals a shit ton of Lock shaman and lock mage and very few DK teams.. Weird, almost like it shows precisely what a few of us have already said. You can look all of this up yourself btw..

OR you can keep being an ignorant turd and popping off with senseless horse bologna. Up to you.

WEIRD

Clown everybody knows that in clown arenas are a mistake 3s spellcasters are strong but this game is not all about that meme cringeworthy circus called arenas and it is funny you only mention 3s because 2s is mostly melees, granted most are warriors which is a stupid class to be frank, op when on healer and useles when not, typical Blizzard shit circus design.

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So which is it?

Is that you are retarded and incapable or making non fallacious arguments.

[Woods123]

Clown everybody knows that in clown arenas are a mistake 3s spellcasters are strong but this game is not all about that meme cringeworthy circus called arenas and it is funny you only mention 3s because 2s is mostly melees, granted most are warriors which is a stupid class o be frank, op when on healer and useles when not, ypical Blizzard shi circus design.

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Is that you are retarded and incapable or making non fallacious arguments.

I’m not making an argument I’m asking a question. You said healers never die and everyone gets one shot. Which is it?