Do you think Turalyon participated in the Tyr's Hand peasant massacre?

[Ardenaso]

There is nothing to "whitewash".

The government was right to cull the peasants after they rebelled as the government was fighting to protect their entire race from being exterminated by alien invaders.

not even just disarm?

[Varodoc]

not even just disarm?

They were sent to reinforce the military front in Quel'Thalas.

They couldn't waste too much time dealing with a trivial revolt in Tyr's Hand.

It's like the Culling of Stratholme. Yes, theoretically, Arthas could have quarantined the city and have the Kirin Tor mages check who is affected and who isn't. Realistically, the easier solution was to slaughter them all, since Mal'ganis was already starting to raise them and so it was a race against time.

Same thing here. While this revolt was taking place, Horde and Amani were rampaging across the Thalassian forests and the dragons were burning the countryside to ash. They had no time to waste with the Tyr's Hand revolt, so they just took the most direct and less time-consuming route. War isn't pretty.

[Woggmer]

Considering this is a footnote in a single WC2 mission in an obscure area that hasn't been relevant to the story outside of fighting some scarlet crusaders in it, I'm going to write this off as "what? who cares?"

Skimming the wiki it looks like you eventually find the conspirators responsible for agitating the revolt for their own means and deal with that, orcs attack the place, other stuff happens, eventually scarlet crusade live there, we kill them, they're raised, we kill them again, and now it's Argent Crusade occupied.

I think rather than focusing on an obscure WC2 mission that doesn't have him actively appear as a Hero Unit, which is absolutely irrelevant to anything, we should focus on his actions specifically. But I am not saying he wouldn't do something like this, based on his actions in Before The Storm, pretty sure that was the novel where he used "advanced interrogation techniques" with Alleria combining light and void in order to torture someone for information. He's definitely "light does not mean nice" and I worry about the impact having his goddess-adjacent obliterated in front of him had on his mental health.

This. Especially for players who've never played WC2, a lot of the information behind it is obscured is either retconned or changed to fit with the timeline. I'm not a fan of the whole "Let's explore the cosmic reaches beyond Azeroth" schtick, but I do like the idea of exploring the good and bad sides between of those cosmologies and how they interact in the world itself.

In this case, it's more of a wonder if Turalyon is actually serving the Alliance, doing things for the best of intentions by his own beliefs, or is he doing things because the Light told him to. And consider this, if he makes friends with Lor'themar... is he doing it because he wants to establish relations with the Horde? Or is he doing it so he can get easy access to the Sunwell (the biggest fount of Light energy on Azeroth).

[Ardenaso]

In this case, it's more of a wonder if Turalyon is actually serving the Alliance, doing things for the best of intentions by his own beliefs, or is he doing things because the Light told him to. And consider this, if he makes friends with Lor'themar... is he doing it because he wants to establish relations with the Horde? Or is he doing it so he can get easy access to the Sunwell (the biggest fount of Light energy on Azeroth).

he wants to reclaim all former Alliance of Lordaeron holdings so that includes Quel'thalas

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They were sent to reinforce the military front in Quel'Thalas.

They couldn't waste too much time dealing with a trivial revolt in Tyr's Hand.

It's like the Culling of Stratholme. Yes, theoretically, Arthas could have quarantined the city and have the Kirin Tor mages check who is affected and who isn't. Realistically, the easier solution was to slaughter them all, since Mal'ganis was already starting to raise them and so it was a race against time.

Same thing here. While this revolt was taking place, Horde and Amani were rampaging across the Thalassian forests and the dragons were burning the countryside to ash. They had no time to waste with the Tyr's Hand revolt, so they just took the most direct and less time-consuming route. War isn't pretty.

Oh. I just had to include that on the Tiananmen-based anti-Alliance copypasta; guess I should take it off then now

If it's like the Culling of Stratholme I guess that was the original Stratholme before the Stratholme happened

[Varodoc]

he wants to reclaim all former Alliance of Lordaeron holdings so that includes Quel'thalas

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Oh. I just had to include that on the Tiananmen-based anti-Alliance copypasta; guess I should take it off then now

If it's like the Culling of Stratholme I guess that was the original Stratholme before the Stratholme happened

Sure, let's compare an obscure event that happened in one mission from WC2 to the single most groundbreaking and famous event in the entire franchise.

For your interest, if the Horde was dealing with peasant revolt, they'd just drop a nuke on them. And we all know this, even those who are not willing to admit it.

[saintminya]

Without looking into the matter at all, I'd assume that Turalyon was more than willing to participate in such a massacre. Not fueled by my Horde bias btw, as I simply find Turalyon and his void-corrupted spouse to be the sort to maim first and inquire later. They are some of the shadiest higher ups in the Alliance.

I'm withholding judgement as to whether Turalyon's actions were justifiable or not, unlike Arthas who was simply a corrupt bastard.

[Lothaeryn]

Uther was present in that mission. So Uther was the one who carried out the events.

Turalyon was not present, so unless they retconned it theres little reason to discuss his involvement when theres little evidence to suggest he would be there.

The Knights of the Silver Hand were already established at this point and had a small outcrop of Paladins already. the original 5 weren't the only ones running around; especially since the whole point of that mission is to showcase the unit and its creation method. There were (IIRC since i havent played it in decades) Uther, and 2-4 other knights around him. the first few seconds of the mission had peasants litearlly run up and attack them, which you obviously kill off without effort.

[Venziir]

Uther was present in that mission. So Uther was the one who carried out the events.

Turalyon was not present, so unless they retconned it theres little reason to discuss his involvement when theres little evidence to suggest he would be there.

The Knights of the Silver Hand were already established at this point and had a small outcrop of Paladins already. the original 5 weren't the only ones running around; especially since the whole point of that mission is to showcase the unit and its creation method. There were (IIRC since i havent played it in decades) Uther, and 2-4 other knights around him. the first few seconds of the mission had peasants litearlly run up and attack them, which you obviously kill off without effort.

Uther was not present in that mission, but the following.

[Ardenaso]

Turalyon was not present, so unless they retconned it theres little reason to discuss his involvement when theres little evidence to suggest he would be there.

I was told that Turalyon was soft-retconned to be the main character of WC2 human since he was like the most direct subordinate of Anduin Lothar; like Rend Blackhand for WC2 orc and Artanis for SC2 Brood War

[Varodoc]

I was told that Turalyon was soft-retconned to be the main character of WC2 human since he was like the most direct subordinate of Anduin Lothar; like Rend Blackhand for WC2 orc and Artanis for SC2 Brood War

No, not according to WoWpedia.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tyr...nd_(WC2_Human)


The rebellion in Tyr's Hand was handled by an Unknown Alliance Commander and by an elf named Milan.

If what you say is true, WoWpedia would have mentioned Turalyon instead of an unknown commander.

[BaumanKing]

No, read ToD novel and Chronicle Volume 2. Turalyon was Lothar's first lieutenant, so he had other missions during the war. Lothar sent Turalyon, Khadgar, and Alleria to intercept the Horde before Quel'Thalas burned. And after that, Turalyon basically pursued Orgrim all the way to Blackrock Mountain. Turalyon simply couldn't be in Tyr's Hand timeline-wise. Besides, in BtDP, Turalyon even hesitates to destroy DRAGON eggs, and you're talking about the whole human massacre, lol. It's definitely not in his character, especially at the time.

If Tyr's Hand mission is still canon, then Uther is the most likely suspect, as he was the Supreme commander of the Paladin Order (Turalyon was not his subordinate at the time, as he only answered directly to Lothar). RoC manual even mentions how Uther "kept the peace in the kingdom, settling civil disputes and quelling demi-human uprisings throughout the realm". But judging by his recent portrayal, I highly doubt that will be the case. Perhaps Blizz writers will make Saidan to do this if this mission is ever revisited in lore. Or maybe Gavinrad. We don't really know what these two did during the war.

[Ardenaso]

Looks like it is Uther indeed

[Aurabolt]

Looks like it is Uther indeed

Problem: Uther opposed Arthas purging Stratholme and told him to his face he would not do it even if Arthas ordered him to as king.

That's a pretty strong case for him not being responsible for putting down the Peasant Revolt in WC2.

[Venziir]

Looks like it is Uther indeed

No. The revolt isn't canon anymore.

[Varodoc]

Problem: Uther opposed Arthas purging Stratholme and told him to his face he would not do it even if Arthas ordered him to as king.

That's a pretty strong case for him not being responsible for putting down the Peasant Revolt in WC2.

Completely different situations.

The people of Stratholme were innocent civilians whose only "crime" was eating bread they did not know was infested.

Meanwhile, the insurgents of Tyr's Hand were thuggish rebels who willingly opposed the government during a time of world war.

Furthermore, I doubt the elderly, women, and children were rising up against the Alliance army in Tyr's Hand, meanwhile the Culling of Stratholme involved slaughtering the infected elderly, women, and children too.

[Aurabolt]

Completely different situations.

The people of Stratholme were innocent civilians whose only "crime" was eating bread they did not know was infested.

Meanwhile, the insurgents of Tyr's Hand were thuggish rebels who willingly opposed the government during a time of world war.

Furthermore, I doubt the elderly, women, and children were rising up against the Alliance army in Tyr's Hand, meanwhile the Culling of Stratholme involved slaughtering the infected elderly, women, and children too.

Given his personality during both WC2 and WC3, it's still a hard no it was Uther though. Plus there IS the fact Lordaeron's Paladin order was literally just founded at the time.

[Ardenaso]

Problem: Uther opposed Arthas purging Stratholme and told him to his face he would not do it even if Arthas ordered him to as king.

perhaps that's the reason why he didn't want to purge Stratholme, like he has seen enough

but yes if not him there can be Gavinrad who probably doesn't have much personality yet

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For your interest, if the Horde was dealing with peasant revolt, they'd just drop a nuke on them. And we all know this, even those who are not willing to admit it.

when the Orc peons revolted the Horde player was asked to listen to their woes, though that's on the Horde council era though

[Varodoc]

Given his personality during both WC2 and WC3, it's still a hard no it was Uther though. Plus there IS the fact Lordaeron's Paladin order was literally just founded at the time.

As we see from Shadowlands, Uther was always very hypocritical and shady, even though he looked like a "saint" in life. In Shadowlands, he was literally helping Cosmic Satan usher in the apocalypse.

In the end, I wouldn't put it beyond him to slaughter insurgents if it means securing key Alliance territory during a war.

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perhaps that's the reason why he didn't want to purge Stratholme, like he has seen enough

but yes if not him there can be Gavinrad who probably doesn't have much personality yet

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when the Orc peons revolted the Horde player was asked to listen to their woes, though that's on the Horde council era though

Furthermore, and more importantly, it was during a time of armistice, when all fighting had ended.

We already saw what the "Loyalist Horde" tried to do to the Rebels during the time of fighting, and I can assure you, it wasn't pretty (the active repression and slaughtering of non-Orc citizens in Orgrimmar in MoP comes to mind).

[Zmagoslav]

Weren't the knights of the silver hand summoned AFTER the uprising to keep watch over the population?

[Ardenaso]

Weren't the knights of the silver hand summoned AFTER the uprising to keep watch over the population?

perhaps; but surely they're made up of the said knights who took part in the quelling of the uprising