Flying is finally the way it SHOULD be: Got it right after 8 long years

[facefist]

I never could understand people who insist on handicapping their movement for the sake of "Lore, immersion, etc". It's part of the game, so use it As for the people you described above, there is one term that solidly fits them: hypocrites. Like that scene in Armageddon where the Green Peace group is protesting an oil drilling operation on a boat that uses hundreds of gallons of fuel every hour. If you are concerned about climate change, feel free to go green, add solar, use composting, etc. But they can excuse me while I drive a gas guzzler, use my pool, and replace my grass with gravel to make for a more desert landscape. I have no problem with people being themselves, but their shouting and complaining without proper logic stops when it reaches the end of my nose. They have a right to their opinion, and I have the right to ignore it.

I personally love flying now that I only play WoW as an action RPG (raid and m+), but the opt out solution doesnt really work here for the people who hate flying because it breaks immersion.

The thing is that in vanilla era, the world was lively and immersive because you could see people everywhere. If 98 % of the population is flying around, you don't see those people anymore. Flying also kills the world pvp excitement.

However, I think flying or no flying, immersion would be in the past anyway. Removing flying would not bring the lively world back, as we have moved from 6month+ adventure into level to max in a few days and join instanced content.

In Vanilla you sometimes didn't visit a major city for several days, now you basically have no reason to leave them and if you do, you probably want to use the fastest transport possible to get back faster.

[DarkAmbient]

The way it should be: Ding max level, buy flying with gold to unlock it for yourself and all your characters. Anything that delays it even further is bullshit.

[Tiwack]

I'm a big fan of the way they did flying in shadowlands and zereth mortis, just sorely missed it in the maw/korthia!

The flying enemies are important albeit annoying but honestly without obstacles flying is boring AF once you've seen the zone from the new angles it allows for...

[Loveliest]

Once again just because you can opt out of using something doesn't make it bad for the game or the people who don't like it hypocrites. That's like saying you can use a pocket knife in a gun fight if you hate guns but nobody in their right mind would do it and you could still hate guns. That tired sad argument just needs to stop.

I never heard anyone issue complaints about flying in MoP for example. No one said it could've been so much better without flying or the like. Anti flying is a silly stance and it exists only because Blizz created the opportunity. And they created this in WoD because there was not much to do in the outside zones and this was a way to make things seem like they take longer. It was also a misinterpreted reaction to ppl who like timeless isle. Ppl liked it for boas for alts mostly and collecting things and several other things, so they recreated every zone as TI, with treasures etc.
So tbh nobody actually needs an argument against the stance of anti flying because the stance itself has no arguments. Those joke arguments about world pvp (as if there was balance there) and immersion (in a mmo with boring repeatable content) are the only things that are brought up. Oh and "danger" - which is just as ridiculous as a bug dazing you.
It's fantasy. Flying on mounts is cool, because you can't do it irl...

[Iain]

No one said it could've been so much better without flying or the like. Anti flying is a silly stance and it exists only because Blizz created the opportunity.

I am anti-flying. I still fly because that's the baseline that the game creates and there's no reward for finding innovative ways to travel outside of flying.

Flying feels like cheating. You can take off at any time in any place and instantly you're removed from all the hazards on the ground. Immediately the whole world that used to be filled with complex obstacles is now flattened and you can just auto-walk in whichever direction you want to go, get a cup of coffee and hope you didn't overshot the target.

In that sense, the introduction to flying drastically shrinks the content of the game by making it frictionless. It makes complete sense that Blizzard puts a pathfinder requirement on it but even then that's just postponing the inevitable moment that all the content loses its teeth.

That doesn't mean flying in any format is inherently bad. Flightmasters are great because they're constricted to player-hubs. They're perfect for getting that cup of coffee or just enjoy the scenery. And if Blizzard indeed makes dragonflight flying come with challenges and obstacles, maybe energy bars or whatever, anything that makes the player to have to at least pay attention while travelling then the world gets its luster back.

Blizzard's biggest mistake was to design the game around convenience. A game is not meant to be convenience. It's not an app on your phone that allows you to order a pizza or turn on the bread-making machine at home. It's meant to be a hostile bitch of a world that forces you to earn whatever headway you're making into it.

Likewise I would love to see teleport-joins for group finder removed, as well as most of the portals in the major cities. Anything to make travelling integral to the game again.

And maybe there are players who are seething at these ideas. Maybe they consider me a hypocrite for using the convenience that's provided to all the players. But our views don't have to clash. I would gladly make way to a server that has all this quality of life, ease of travel stripped out of the game. And I'm pretty sure there's a sufficiently large enough share of the playerbase who I would find on such a server as well.

[OMGTwitchTV]

We don't know if they did get it right. We have to experience it first. But yeah, on paper it sounds good to me as well. Also I don't think that new system will replace the current one in total.

Current flying system is a joke (swimming through air). Even when it was introduced back in the day in TBC I disliked it -- only used it as a means of a pause button to safely stay away from mobs while being afk mixing a drink.

I actually also liked the AION flying system where you could only fly for certain amounts of time and you had to make decisions on when to use it. But they managed to ruin that as well with flight prolonging potions that became necessary.

Anyway, looking forward to experience Dragonflight flying first hand.

We do know it. Everything I mentioned above is from Shadowlands and Zereth Mortis I remain cautiously optimistic for Dragonflight.

- - - Updated - - -

I personally love flying now that I only play WoW as an action RPG (raid and m+), but the opt out solution doesnt really work here for the people who hate flying because it breaks immersion.

The thing is that in vanilla era, the world was lively and immersive because you could see people everywhere. If 98 % of the population is flying around, you don't see those people anymore. Flying also kills the world pvp excitement.

However, I think flying or no flying, immersion would be in the past anyway. Removing flying would not bring the lively world back, as we have moved from 6month+ adventure into level to max in a few days and join instanced content.

In Vanilla you sometimes didn't visit a major city for several days, now you basically have no reason to leave them and if you do, you probably want to use the fastest transport possible to get back faster.

To be fair, in Vanilla, we did not know what we were missing until TBC, and then folks wanted to fly in Azeroth. Didn't happen til Cataclysm. Now that we know what we are missing, it's gained momentum and importance to more than a few players. Not sure I would want to farm crafting mats while riding a horse after 18 years. WoD was probably the best since You could not only fly, but if you had lvl 3 stables in your garrison, you could mine and pick flowers like a Druid... from your mount.

[FossilFree]

I never could understand people who insist on handicapping their movement for the sake of "Lore, immersion, etc". It's part of the game, so use it As for the people you described above, there is one term that solidly fits them: hypocrites. Like that scene in Armageddon where the Green Peace group is protesting an oil drilling operation on a boat that uses hundreds of gallons of fuel every hour. If you are concerned about climate change, feel free to go green, add solar, use composting, etc. But they can excuse me while I drive a gas guzzler, use my pool, and replace my grass with gravel to make for a more desert landscape. I have no problem with people being themselves, but their shouting and complaining without proper logic stops when it reaches the end of my nose. They have a right to their opinion, and I have the right to ignore it.

Yea, let's destroy the planet and make humans extinct because selfish schmucks can't stop wasting their money on antiquated technology. Logic though, right?

[Swnem]

I'm excited for the Dragonflight flying. That's how it always should have been. Not swimming through the air, like a noclip hack.

Riding a mount should be exciting. Groundmounts are good enough because you at least need to pay attention to obstacles and enemies. But the new flying looks sick.

Just look at this. It's so cool.

It is cool. It is also GW2, not WoW. They won't let you fly that fast in WoW.

These features are always dreamy when they are abstract. Let's wait and see how they implement it first.

[Izthak]

I've never understood people who claim that flying takes away all the discovery and appreciation of the terrain.

Whenever I was stranded on foot, I was always too busy just running from point A to point B avoiding everything I could, and rarely having the opportunity to stop and appreciate anything. But as soon as I could fly, I'd go revisit all those old zones, marvel over them, and look around for little Easter eggs and other fun discoveries.

But apparently I was doing it all backwards, and flying's only good for getting from point A to point B while you're supposed to fight every single creature you come across and explore every inch of the terrain (even that which you can't access, but a minor detail, that) while out questing on foot.

Silly me.

[Hellobolis]

getting account wide flying after you complete the story content once works for me.

just dont timegate the story content too much.

[oplawlz]

Yup, personnaly is the right term here. Personnaly I'd rather enjoy a nice long trip and enjoy my journey, but each his own. Does that makes me "insane" ?

No, but insisting others also have to take the long way is both insane and selfish.

[OMGTwitchTV]

Yea, let's destroy the planet and make humans extinct because selfish schmucks can't stop wasting their money on antiquated technology. Logic though, right?

The earth has reset itself at least a few times of which we are aware. Sure it may take another 2 million years to recover, but being more than 65 million years old, that's like taking a year off work for mother Earth. Besides, we're not the first batch of humans to inhabit it and likely not the last.

[Izthak]

The earth has reset itself at least a few times of which we are aware. Sure it may take another 2 million years to recover, but being more than 65 million years old, that's like taking a year off work for mother Earth. Besides, we're not the first batch of humans to inhabit it and likely not the last.

"So yeah, to Hell with the Earth, I got mine, screw you and everyone else on the planet. I'll be dead before it's completely uninhabitable after all."

Good logic. You're a good, moral person.

[Zardas]

No, but insisting others also have to take the long way is both insane and selfish.

As far as I'm aware, there is a way to fly, right ?

[WowIsDead64]

Flying/no-flying - is beaten horse. No reason to discuss it again. While gradual return of flying - is better compromise, if implemented right way (i.e. available at release, no artificial gating), it's still not ultimate solution of problem. May be it's easier to finally solve it, than constantly deal with it for years?

[Biomega]

While gradual return of flying - is better compromise, if implemented right way (i.e. available at release, no artificial gating)

We already know it IS gated. They've said so. You can't fly long enough or freely enough to reach certain places by design, and will gradually unlock access to those places over time.

Which is, I guess, flying without the reason we like flying - i.e. that it saves us time and hassle when getting to places.

All they want is to make movement into content. Because that way, you have to spend time and effort doing it, and the more time and effort you spend the more likely you are to continue subbing to invest said time and effort.

Whereas people like me would prefer to just have CONTENT be content, and have the stuff in between content be as convenient as realistically feasible.

[WowIsDead64]

We already know it IS gated. They've said so. You can't fly long enough or freely enough to reach certain places by design, and will gradually unlock access to those places over time.

Which is, I guess, flying without the reason we like flying - i.e. that it saves us time and hassle when getting to places.

All they want is to make movement into content. Because that way, you have to spend time and effort doing it, and the more time and effort you spend the more likely you are to continue subbing to invest said time and effort.

Whereas people like me would prefer to just have CONTENT be content, and have the stuff in between content be as convenient as realistically feasible.

When I say gating, I mean something like "wait for next patch". Because in this case players would have illusion, that they earn flying. Again. And players have had enough of this BS, so they won't bear it again.

Right implementation? My brain doesn't work now, so I don't know, how to give better structured explanation. First of all, "jet pack mode" and "gliding" are enough in many cases, when player needs to deal with the most annoying obstacles. It's still better, than nothing. Also. Players just should feel, that flying is important. It shouldn't be just hostage to force completion of 100% content, no matter if it's related to flying or not. It's the same way, rep grind is evolved from "Filling bar with faceless number to unlock pointless rewards" to "being more involved with your covenant, both via gameplay and visually". "Earn flying" should mean something. Not just "Grind all pointless reps, nobody wants to grind".

[bloodmoth13]

While I know the anti-flight group claims it "ruins the game", I would bet a month's salary they are using flight for dailies, world bosses, rare hunting, and more. So thanks Blizz for actually paying attention and making flight something worth having again, and slow rolling it so it didn't interfere with the initial passes through the zones.

Why say something dumb like this? you really ought to know the answer to this by now as this argument has played out over and over, flight makes the game easy, playing the game in a way that is intentionally harder is playing poorly.

I think flying needs to be relegated to macro travel and ban it from micro. Let players only mount their flying mounts next to flight masters, they can do this anywhere from the get go, but once they land they are stuck on their ground mounts till they get back to a flight master. also flightmaster whistle exists baseline with 30 min CD. You can now fly from the start but when you are in the world you are stuck there.

[Biomega]

Why say something dumb like this? you really ought to know the answer to this by now as this argument has played out over and over, flight makes the game easy, playing the game in a way that is intentionally harder is playing poorly.

That's a bit weird, you have the reply to your own statement as the first thing in that paragraph.

Why is your statement dumb? Because in order to judge something to be done "poorly" you need a goal with respect to which you can perform poorly (or not poorly). But the goal for people who intentionally don't use flying ISN'T "play the game at optimum efficiency". It's "I want to enjoy myself". And them following their preference to maximize that enjoyment by not using flying (if indeed that is their preference) is, in fact, playing the game PROPERLY with respect to that goal.

I think flying needs to be relegated to macro travel and ban it from micro. Let players only mount their flying mounts next to flight masters, they can do this anywhere from the get go, but once they land they are stuck on their ground mounts till they get back to a flight master.

Why?

What's your reasoning behind this?

[Ragedaug]

One of the things I'm looking forward to in Dragonflight is zones built with flight in mind. They noted they've been making these small cramped zones in the last few XPacs because they've been grounding everyone, so didn't want folks to get frustrated with how long it takes to get everywhere on your ground mount. Having bigger zones, more spaced out, with less mob density will be a welcome return to the older days of WoW.