Is Sepulcher the most difficult raid tier ever?

[Popastique]

I'm not quite sure what Diverted Life Shield being reduced by 75% means, or a lot of them honestly but dang Anduin is almost certainly the most nerfed Mythic boss of all time.

That's the absorption shield the boss casts during the start of P4. Below is the value at the moment

[garicasha]

Announced today that there will be...another...yes another set of nerfs coming so they can get to Season 4 faster.

I generally side with Blizzard more than most people on this forum...

But there were serious and numerous gaffes this tier:
--Not releasing the two raids separately
--Making Heroic/Mythic Anduin super hard
--Making release Mythic Halondrus insane
--Not realizing that if it took world-first raiders three solid weeks+ to clear the tier it shoulda been nerfed to the ground quickly
--Announcing Season 4 for a Dragonflight Q1 release
--Announcing Dragonflight was gonna be 2022 Q4
--Now shoving both the hardest tier ever and Season 4 in to the second half of the year

Add to this the Mythic Halondrus bug, which although wasn't an error in planning makes a situation that was already clown shoes just worse.

[Thunderball]

This tier was awesome. My only regret that I didnt get to try prenerf Halondrus, but the nerf was justified. Later nerfs just made it a joke of a boss. All the other bosses shouldnt have been nerfed as much.

Also, I dont care about Dragonflight release date. I very much doubt we're going to see a proper raid tier on launch of the expansion considering the timeline, and I'd rather play new expansion without a big raid instead of farming old raids over and over. S4 is going to be plenty of time to farm and have some fun doing it if you're into that.

[ohwell]

No because there weren't any systems buffs along the way to naturally nerf the content, but you know people are all butthurt because a streamer said systems are bad

[jeezusisacasual]

No because there weren't any systems buffs along the way to naturally nerf the content, but you know people are all butthurt because a streamer said systems are bad

I love watching those people complain about how easy raiding is and now look at this shit show, not only are they literally killing raiding by making it so hard that people just say why bother and those who think the game was harder back in their day. I stopped raiding because of the time commitments and scheduling problems ( i want more games to play like a lobby shooter or Dota 2 instead of scheduled events like a dungeons and dragons thing ) but as long as we can see the hardcore community eat itself the better we all will be.

[garicasha]

With the weekly reset in each region (6 July here), we intend to apply the following hotfixes:

Anduin
Anduin’s Hope and Anduin’s Doubt health reduced by 20% on Heroic and Normal difficulties.
Reduced the movement speed of Anduin’s Hope by 15% on Heroic and Normal difficulties.
Grim Fate reduced from 200% to 150% on Mythic difficulty.

Lords of Dread
Boss Health reduced by 10% on all difficulties.
Swarm of Decay and Swarm of Darkness damage reduced by 15% on Heroic difficulty.

Rygelon
Boss Health reduced by 10% on all difficulties.
Damage of Dark Eruption reduced by 75% on Heroic difficulty.

The Jailer
Health reduced by 15% on Heroic and Normal difficulties.
Health reduced by 10% on Mythic difficulty.
Azerite Radiation increased from 3%/stack to 7%/stack.
Domination is now triggered on players with 3 stacks of Tyranny (was 2 stacks).
Decimator no longer includes knockback on Heroic and Mythic difficulties.
Surging Azerite damage reduced by 15% on Mythic difficulty.
Surging Azerite heals Azeroth for 5% per tick (was 4%).
Rune of Damnation damage reduced by 15% on all difficulties.
Rune of Domination will be cast 3 times during Phase 2 on Mythic difficulty (was 4 casts).
Rune of Compulsion absorb reduced by 35% on Heroic difficulty.
Shattering Blast damage reduced by 20% on all difficulties.
Chains of Anguish damage reduced by 30% on Mythic difficulty.
Dominating Will absorb reduced by 15% on Heroic and Mythic difficulties.
Chain Breaker damage reduced by 20% on Heroic difficulty.



Gosh ANOTHER nerf to Anduin Kingsmourne adds.

The only nerf I really like in here as a heroic raider is the reduction to Lords of Dread Carrion Swarm, and well 10% less health will turn it from 8 minutes to 7.

Rygelon, Dark Eruption is the tank soak? Think they coulda gotten away with a smaller nerf, if you’re gonna nerf it by 75% heh why not just remove it completely?

So does Jailer no longer knock back when he swings his mace? I mean that’s a gutting the carcass of a dead horse.

Curious if he stays like this in Season 4.

[Caprias]

In the same time frame more than double the amount of guilds defeated Denathrius and Sylvanas mythic.

Just sayin, maybe saudi arabia supporter asmonbronze was right?

[garicasha]

So thinking about what shoulda been done
As soon as the World First race ended, Mythic Halondrus and Mythic Anduin should have received much bigger nerfs. This happened a little bit but there was enough info at the time to be clear these fights were FAR too hard.

Heroic and normal Anduin should also have been nerfed heavily early on, it was also clear at the time he was just way too hard on every difficulty for boss 8 of 11.

By the time Catalyst came out it was also apparent that Rygelon on all difficulties, Heroic Lords of Dread, and all versions of Jailer were far too hard. The time to gut them was then.

Lihuvim and Prototype maybe shoulda had their minor nerfs a little earlier.

Once Season 4 was announced they couldn’t really cancel it. But still they coulda announced the gutting a few weeks in advance. How s——- is it for a guild that’s a week away from killing pre-July 6 Jailer to go and face the ‘heroic’ mythic Jailer now.

Not that there’s many guilds in that position, heh.

[Thunderball]

So thinking about what shoulda been done
As soon as the World First race ended, Mythic Halondrus and Mythic Anduin should have received much bigger nerfs.

There shouldnt have been any nerfs to Halondrus after the first one. They just destroyed the fight and made it a joke. Anduin nerfs did nothing except make people who killed unnerfed version facepalm. If you wipe to downstairs phase or circles you shouldnt be killing that boss. Still, after all these nerfs there are mechanics people wipe to, so the nerfs didnt really accomplish much except ruin the fun for people who have been progressing the boss before nerfs.

This happened a little bit but there was enough info at the time to be clear these fights were FAR too hard.

Far too hard to be loot pinatas? Sure. They were cool enjoyable bosses that were fun to progress before nerfs. What was the point of nerfing them?

Heroic and normal Anduin should also have been nerfed heavily early on, it was also clear at the time he was just way too hard on every difficulty for boss 8 of 11.

Heroic Anduin did have too many mechanics for a Heroic boss. Normal Anduin was a joke from the beginning.

By the time Catalyst came out it was also apparent that Rygelon on all difficulties, Heroic Lords of Dread, and all versions of Jailer were far too hard. The time to gut them was then.

All of these bosses were never hard. They were just tuned for people wearing their tiersets, which Blizzard should've either not tuned for or made them available from the start.

Lihuvim and Prototype maybe shoulda had their minor nerfs a little earlier.

4p and double legendaries have already made those bosses a joke without any nerfs.

Once Season 4 was announced they couldn’t really cancel it. But still they coulda announced the gutting a few weeks in advance. How s——- is it for a guild that’s a week away from killing pre-July 6 Jailer to go and face the ‘heroic’ mythic Jailer now.

Not that there’s many guilds in that position, heh.

There's absolutely no reason to devalue peoples' progression with these nerfs. If you dont get your CE/AOTC - it's fine, you just werent good enough. Blizzard have clearly made a mistake of tuning the raid for people wearing their tiersets not realizing that RWF raiders will get their tiersets no matter what while everyone else who doesnt split would suffer. But nerfs dont help at all.

[Soikona]

I love watching those people complain about how easy raiding is and now look at this shit show, not only are they literally killing raiding by making it so hard that people just say why bother and those who think the game was harder back in their day. I stopped raiding because of the time commitments and scheduling problems ( i want more games to play like a lobby shooter or Dota 2 instead of scheduled events like a dungeons and dragons thing ) but as long as we can see the hardcore community eat itself the better we all will be.

I got my CE, and quit that moment straight after. I did not find this raid rewarding at all, it was tedious, tiresome, and due to its difficulty, it sucked out all the fun atmosphere of banter.

[Twdft]

Heroic and normal Anduin should also have been nerfed heavily early on, it was also clear at the time he was just way too hard on every difficulty for boss 8 of 11.

This whole raid tier would have been a lot better with Anduin as endboss. Instead of scrapping the 9.3 raid and tack three of its bosses onto 9.2 just give us a three boss 9.3 raid with the explanation of "all resources toward Dragonflight" and we'd been happy.

[jeezusisacasual]

I got my CE, and quit that moment straight after. I did not find this raid rewarding at all, it was tedious, tiresome, and due to its difficulty, it sucked out all the fun atmosphere of banter.

I have long said that once killing the final boss felt more like thank god thats over instead of hell yea we did it would be the start of the death for raiding and it appears to me that this raid has very much done that.

[Popastique]

Once Season 4 was announced they couldn’t really cancel it. But still they coulda announced the gutting a few weeks in advance. How s——- is it for a guild that’s a week away from killing pre-July 6 Jailer to go and face the ‘heroic’ mythic Jailer now.

Yeah it sucks, i remember getting Helya to last phase on mythic, and then she got nerfed to the ground.
But Season 4 aside - Jailer would still get these nerfs even without that announcement. Why? Hall of Fame ( Alliance side ) got full 1 or 2 days ago.

[klaps_05]

considering raiding participation is down almost 80% because ppl quit and guilds disband, i honestly hope future raids start being targeted at the MAJORITY of the population.

The easiest way to solve splits/etc. when Mythic opens is to simply make the raid clearable within a few hours. Let ppl actually progress and quickly finish the raid so they can focus on other activities too.

[Popastique]

considering raiding participation is down almost 80% because ppl quit and guilds disband, i honestly hope future raids start being targeted at the MAJORITY of the population

Source? Preferably with statistics info.

The easiest way to solve splits/etc. when Mythic opens is to simply make the raid clearable within a few hours. Let ppl actually progress and quickly finish the raid so they can focus on other activities too.

It will just make mythic raids pointless which will lead to mythic guilds disbanding. So nope.

[exochaft]

Yeah it sucks, i remember getting Helya to last phase on mythic, and then she got nerfed to the ground.
But Season 4 aside - Jailer would still get these nerfs even without that announcement. Why? Hall of Fame ( Alliance side ) got full 1 or 2 days ago.

I'd actually push back a bit that this latest nerf is due to the Hall of Fame, because of the speed of how the Alliance side filled. Just shy of 50 spots got filled on the Alliance HoF after the June 21/22 (depending upon your region) nerfs in about a week... that's massive. If anything, the June 21/22 nerfs were due to the HoF issues, but the latest round is due to Season 4. I wouldn't be surprised that if they sit on some of these adjustments based upon internal metrics (i.e. they wait until X amount of guilds clear the content or there's Y days left until the end of the patch/seasons to release nerfs/adjustments).

Regardless, yeah, it really sucks when you're progressing hard and put in tons of hours on a boss... then it gets nerfed into the ground. Feels like you've wasted your time that could've been spent on something else. This is why I'd rather go back to a progression buff/debuff aura on a schedule that you can turn on and off as a stop-gap measure for these constant nerfs. It's not the best solution, but it's better than what they're doing now. Ultimately? They need to tune the raids for the majority of their audience, not the top end, because this is why the constant nerfs and change in raid difficulty even happen. Well, technically there's other issues that I'd like adjusted when it comes to raids (such as detaching the gear progression from mythic raiding), but the way Blizz currently handles raids at best makes a very small amount of raiders happy, at worst they piss everyone off.

If they change nothing else about raiding, I'd rather RWF people could just blow through the raid in a week or less if they're putting in 16-18 hr days, because that would mean the raid is likely tuned for the average mythic raider without being too easy. There's nothing wrong with being done with a raid in a decent amount of time, this sort of "let's keep people in the game as long as possible" mentality is a modern WoW concept that sort of evolved when Blizz started adding seasons. Raiding, and WoW in general, needs to move away from feeling like a second job that doesn't respect your time, else the raiding population will continue to decline.

[klaps_05]

It will just make mythic raids pointless which will lead to mythic guilds disbanding. So nope.

Or it will actually promote more RWF competition as currently theres only 2 guilds? Ppl getting more loot will lead to guilds disbanding doesnt make sense, if anything it attracts more players as it sends the message that raiding is accessible for all, not 1% of the playerbase.

The games direction needs to be towards accessibility, not exclusivity, which as seen historically hasnt worked.

[Popastique]

Or it will actually promote more RWF competition as currently theres only 2 guilds? Ppl getting more loot will lead to guilds disbanding doesnt make sense, if anything it attracts more players as it sends the message that raiding is accessible for all, not 1% of the playerbase.

The games direction needs to be towards accessibility, not exclusivity, which as seen historically hasnt worked.

RWF ending a in few hours? That sounds really stupid, and considering NA patch comes faster - forget any race, it will be just 1 NA guild finishing the content before EU reset occurs. Which is kinda pointless
Accessibility? You have m+, heroic and normal raids, lfr - you can be as casual as you want and you still have content to clear. Making mythic raids accessible/piss easy to everyone is like saying " Hey, want that gladiator title and mount? Forget season cut off, play 20 random arena matches and you got it lad! ". Apply the same logic to high m+

[garicasha]

I dunno I hate the idea of another difficulty level, but I mean...the version the world-first saw versus what existed to pre-July 5 to what will exist post July 5...any reasonable person is gonna realize those are three distinct difficulty levels. Why not leave 'em in? (I'm thinking all with the same loot, harder ones just to /flex.)

[Advo]

Jailer wont be easy unless they address the mechanic overlaps which is 98% of the reason the fight is difficult, no matter how many numbers they tweak. They could probably smooth out P1 by lightening the effect of the tank combo and P2 by giving another second or two before the compulsion debuff triggers the MC