Why is Diablo Immortal hated but not Hearthstone?

[Nymrohd]

The level of predatory gaming Diablo Immortal has is far more. To actually get max your character you have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. It makes Genshin Impact look like spending pocket change. You can compare Immortal to any Gacha game and immortal will always be obscenely more expensive in comparison. Hearthstone is nowhere near as bad.

You don't know how mobile games work evidently.

I don't know, before the task system change, leveling new mercenaries was just insane and the first couple of mercenary additions was textbook power creep to feed sales. And the chances you'd get what you want were crazy.

But really the big think with hearthstone is BGs. There is a free mode that gets constant content and you can compete with no cost or a tiny cost.

I still think the RMAH in D3 was far worse than DI.

[neescher]

The answer is simply, because Hearthstone didn't come out in 2022. Some minor reasons are, that (1) back when HS first came out, it wasn't nearly as expensive as it is today, and (2) it didn't have an existing playerbase that was expecting something different.

But I guarantee, if HS would have been released in 2022, it would have received (almost) the same negative feedback as DI.

[Miyagie]

You can play Battlegrounds only, pay the 15$ once and then you make with dailys and weekly enough gold to have 2000+ Gold for the next season.
Also the Battlepass is tame, you get more XP so you get more Gold, you get some golden cards and you get some Hero skins.
I play maybe 1 game per day sometimes 2-3 and i have always enough Gold for the mini set, the Battleground modus, 30-40 Card packs for the new Addon and enough dust to craft 2-3 Meta decks (i dont play standard or wild anymore because its bad).

[Caerrona]

The level of predatory gaming Diablo Immortal has is far more. To actually get max your character you have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. It makes Genshin Impact look like spending pocket change. You can compare Immortal to any Gacha game and immortal will always be obscenely more expensive in comparison. Hearthstone is nowhere near as bad.

You don't know how mobile games work evidently.

You don't know how English works evidently, I never said it doesn't have p2w.

I answered the op asking why DI is a problem and the answer is it has nothing to do with p2w but a bunch of naive PC gamers.

[Eon Drache]

Hearthstone does NOT require a small fortune to craft a deck that is competitive. Back when the game first came out it was aggro all the time, The decks would either run 0 or 1 legendary in Leeroy Jenkins and otherwise be mostly common or rare cards. This trend on a budget friendly deck being pretty good has continued. Right now HSReplay, a site that records games, decks and winrates, has a shammy deck that, for a new player, would cost less than 1000 dust with a recorded 59.4% winrate over almost 7,000 games. The only legendary in the deck is given to new players for free, and 2 of the 4 epics are given for free. And then almost half of the rest of the deck is free to new players in the core set.

So no, Hearthstone has almost always had a new player friendly deck that you can play.

I went ahead and switched to the asian server to see how long it would take me to get the cards from packs without crafting. And in about 100 mins I had the entire deck except the ones you have to level for. One of the cards requires lv27 for instance.

[mrgreenthump]

You can have fun and competitive games in HS without ever spending. That's for one. Not saying that it wouldn't take $100 or so for a new player to catch up. When I actively played, I had so much gold and dust ready for each expansion that I didn't need to buy anything with money if I wanted. But as I then played only arena there was no point of using them on anything.

Then look at DI, you simply cannot compete with not spending. There is not a single way. NONE. That is why most people are really mad about Diablo Immortal and not so much about HS. The game just ends after 10 or so hours when you get to 60 and find out there is nothing to do as it only revolves around PvP and challenge rifts, which both are P2W heavens.

Also what HS did was they just implemented the same scheme TCGs used before as physical games. Granted you can't trade cards like you can physical ones. Which is just a bit worse. But as most magic players never engaged in trading that much, it flew under the radar.

Not to mention HS is upfront about all of it's spending, Diablo Immortal is not. You have to dig for 5 star gem info, game doesn't contain it. It doesn't properly explain the scaling of Resonance, it doesn't explain awakening at all before you hit rank 10 on a gem(which for F2P hasn't even been possible yet). You find out about the upfront cost of awakening you gear. Etc. The game just doesn't tell you how much it's going to cost to gear up your character, while flailing around 800%,600%,500% etc etc extra value at every point.

HS isn't good either, but it was riding the line of acceptable for a F2P game for the first few expansions. Now a new player needs cards from like 3 different expansions and the base set. It's going to be quite high barrier for entry and an upfront cost to be competitive. Nowdays, yeah I wouldn't recommend HS to anyone unless they wanted to try out Battlegrounds.

[Big Thanks]

I saw this thread and had to create a meme in Legends of Runeterra subreddit.

Here it is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRu...th_this_games/

This explains exactly how i feel...about Hearthstone...

[ChronoSul]

The nature of Hearthstone being a CCG is the reason one reason why it isnt really hated that much. If you compare Hearthstone to other card games its actually a lot cheaper if you dont care about cosmetics. And has a bunch of different game modes ranging from completely free to not so free but still generally not bad. It also helps while cosmetics are being more and more common within Hearthstone and thus more things to buy with real money the overall cost of standard has went down. They introduced a core set to replace the classic set that all players get access to for free. Along with adding bad duplicate protection for all rarities instead of just legendaries. Meanwhile for Diablo immortal u have a system where u can spend the same amount as buying a new car or more and still not be maxed out

[loras]

I have a legit question to people who play Hearthstone. I've tried to get into this game, but crafting a competitive deck that has potential to reach Legend rank is BRUTAL for new players and would take many, many months (with average luck) or cost a fortune by buying enough decks to get cards or crafting materials enough to complete the entire deck.

This game is P2W, just like Diablo Immortal, but has been around since 2014 and hasn't had, in eight years, a fraction of the backlash Diablo Immortal had in a month. Why is this?

I am not against P2W per se, but isn't the community a bit hypocrit here? What is it about HS that makes it okey, and doesn't make it okey in Diablo.

Curious to hear Hearthstone players perspective.

It wasn't as bad at the start, now we're all just frogs sitting complacently in boiling water.

There is also the point that gameplay-wise it's pretty good, as in the categories of effects are ...distinct, yet clearly defined. I lack better words for it at present.

Furthermore it has a lighthearted humor to it, minor storytelling, "what-ifs" and character explorations, etc..

Oh and cardgames have a history in regards to exploiting whales and addicts, so it's not such a jarring thing, relatively speaking.

And then there are battlegrounds, requiring no investment whatsoever, and mercenaries is a simple grindy mini rpg which is decently fun, but barely more complex than WoW's pet battles.


But yeah: Boiling frogs.
(though to clarify: I have never spent a dime on it, and i do not recommend anyone doing that)

[mrgreenthump]

You don't know how English works evidently, I never said it doesn't have p2w.

I answered the op asking why DI is a problem and the answer is it has nothing to do with p2w but a bunch of naive PC gamers.

Which is a bad take to have. Nobody ever has said mobile gaming has to be P2W. They just are. And Diablo Immortal took to the 11th level out of 10. It just is no way upfront on how much it takes. Everything is hidden till you find out the scaling resonance has. You don't know about the caps till you hit them. You don't know about awakening before you see it for the first time. Game tells you nothing on what it actually takes to "be good" it gives you pointless "value" when giving out the high percentage value packs.

It's pretty sad though that mobile gamers have been conditioned to defend monetization in mobile gaming. I don't really care too much either way. I just wish kids don't get looped into these games and gambling addicts don't spend all of their money and go the credit dept. But I clearly see every choice they've made in Diablo Immortal has been to get more money out of people. You should watch the explanation on what changed from Alpha builds to Beta and then release from Raxxanterax. He explains it quite clearly that the game used to be good and then it got turned worse for P2W to matter more.

The state of mobile gaming is pretty sad. Nobody says you can't have a fun and good mobile game. Genshin sort is, except it too is P2W. But at least it's a good game. We are basically robbed from a chance to have a platform produce innovating concepts because companies see it as a cashgrab opportunity. Even if you make an innovative concept in mobile, likeliness is that it will get buried. Not that it doesn't already happen in Steam.

It's a funny thing we were thought in school about gaming and money making opportunities. Every single PoV was to shine light on mobile being much larger than every other platform combined. But nobody for a second thought to ask how about how many companies there are making mobile games vs games for other platforms. What happens when you cut out King and Supercell. Well it's already starting to look pretty bleak for your chances to succeed on western markets.

But there is a truth to making it rich with mobile gaming. You have a low chance to get millions with extremely low effort, but you probably never see that. As to let's say indie games on PC/consoles, if your game is actually good, you pretty much get a guaranteed payroll for your company. Not that you don't get that with mobile gaming as well through investments, but at some point those investments run out and you have to quit. No matter how good your mobile game is as it's all about visibility first and foremost. And big companies just steamroll you in that scenario.

[Beastiel]

because it's a CCG, and it merely works the same as every other CCG.

There was also the disenchanting system so if you got something you didn't want you could still put it towards something you did.

There's was a hardcap of how much spending money could initially help you, once you get that the appropriate tournament level deck you were shooting for then that's basically it. Compared to DI which is crafted to make you spend money endlessly.

on top of that, that amount was rarely more than 80 dollars. 80 dollars to compete in a TCG with a top-level deck is a bargain.

The two aren't even close, if you're asking i have to assume you haven't even thought about it really

[deenman]

I have a legit question to people who play Hearthstone. I've tried to get into this game, but crafting a competitive deck that has potential to reach Legend rank is BRUTAL for new players and would take many, many months (with average luck) or cost a fortune by buying enough decks to get cards or crafting materials enough to complete the entire deck.

This game is P2W, just like Diablo Immortal, but has been around since 2014 and hasn't had, in eight years, a fraction of the backlash Diablo Immortal had in a month. Why is this?

I am not against P2W per se, but isn't the community a bit hypocrit here? What is it about HS that makes it okey, and doesn't make it okey in Diablo.

Curious to hear Hearthstone players perspective.

Making a deck capable of legend for new players is actualy super super easy,these days hs is very generous to new players,you even get a pretty good meta deck for free....

also hs isnt hated like diablo,because in hs as f2p you can get everything a whale can get(besides the cosmetics you cant get with gold ofc),unlike diablo immoral where you can NEVER catch up to a whale

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It has nothing to do with p2w.

It's a bunch of PC gamers virtue signaling because they are naive to how mobile games work.

what does pc and mobile have to do with anything?why is there a difference?a free game can make money wile also NOT beign a gambling simulator targeting kids,seriously,whats wrong with you people?

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hearthstone never had a PC game first, and fans that have no clue what a real bad P2W/MTX game looks like on a mobile device. DI is fine.

yeah targeting kids with immoral gambling habits and needing 500k to max your character with zero limit on how you can spend,and having every single predatory money scam in the game is tottaly fine,yep...every other p2w game does EXACTLY THAT /s

[Popastique]

yeah targeting kids with immoral gambling habits and needing 500k to max your character with zero limit on how you can spend,and having every single predatory money scam in the game is tottaly fine,yep...every other p2w game does EXACTLY THAT /s

Every other p2w mobile game has similar stuff, only difference is - they are not made by Blizzard, therefore there will be no outrage and people who play mobile are used to such games. PC gamers are angry, but that doesn't really matter in the long run.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Hearthstone = Battlegrounds for me now. It has been like that since BGs got released. Never touched standard/constructed again.

[Niwes]

I have a legit question to people who play Hearthstone. I've tried to get into this game, but crafting a competitive deck that has potential to reach Legend rank is BRUTAL for new players and would take many, many months (with average luck) or cost a fortune by buying enough decks to get cards or crafting materials enough to complete the entire deck.

This game is P2W, just like Diablo Immortal, but has been around since 2014 and hasn't had, in eight years, a fraction of the backlash Diablo Immortal had in a month. Why is this?

I am not against P2W per se, but isn't the community a bit hypocrit here? What is it about HS that makes it okey, and doesn't make it okey in Diablo.

Curious to hear Hearthstone players perspective.

in some way or form i asked myself the same question, since i mentioned all the years how HS is solely built up as a smart cash grab game. which is typical for mobile gaming.

i never understood the first few years, when HS was successful, how ppl not can see that every aspect of HS is targeted to make ppls feed money into it. but over the last years it seems even Tommy and his Grandma realized that you are only really on top in HS if you butter money into it. at least it’s my understanding of why HS player and profit numbers felt down very heavily.

all that said, DI imo does the same thing but way more radical and way more obvious. and since it’s that obvious, Tommy and his Grandma don’t need years to realize that this time. that’s my personal answer for your question.

ppl learned AND also DI made their greedy nature way more obvious. that’s the reason why it’s this time somewhat different than it was with HS.

[kranur]

Hearthstone was not the continuation of a franchise loved by millions. While featuring stuff from Warcraft, it was not the continuation of WoW. Kind of like the new warcraft mobile game, almost no warcraft fans are going to care about it.

While still P2W early in new expansions, it wasn't anywhere near as ridiculous DI. Not only that but you could even chase and craft the cards you wanted, while in DI you can spend tens of thousands and not even get the gems you want. F2P/light spenders could actually catch up and get the decks they wanted, while in DI you get what 5 crests max per month (assuming you get the battle pass at the very least) and 3 crafted gems ... that's 8 chances out of an average of 2000 to get a 5/5 gem.

Now, I haven played HS in many many many years, but when I did, even as mostly F2P I never felt like there was just no chance that I will ever get a card that I wanted, because I could craft it and it didn't take me 20 years. Yes, 20 years ... that is on average the amount of time it will take someone who only buys the battle pass to get a 5/5 gem (not to mention that there are 7 of them so that would make it around 140 years ... which means there is a good chance that if you play DI your entire life, you won't get the gem you want)

[justandulas]

The REAL elephant in the room isn't Diablo immortal, or it's MTX...

it's that, when and where did gamers just accept that mobile games are going to be half ass games, filled to the brim with MTX? When did mobile games become less of video games, and more cash shops for suckers?

Mobile gaming has so much potential, but it's been ruined behind greed and idiots spending on that greed to encourage further and further.. and now we are here

[Aleksej89]

both are money scams, but hearthstone at least had some bit of genuine passion put into it to make it a fun game.

diablo immoral is just a soulless scam from a soulless corporation, shameless in its monetary concept.

[deenman]

Every other p2w mobile game has similar stuff, only difference is - they are not made by Blizzard, therefore there will be no outrage and people who play mobile are used to such games. PC gamers are angry, but that doesn't really matter in the long run.

oh brother....no they arent all like this

[Phob]

$500k mobile game that looks for whales, vs a ccg that has multiple game modes that you don't have to buy anything to be able to play. Look yes mobile games look for whales to play their games. But there is a reason why alot of the world has banned this one and not say candy crush or other games. This one is just ridiculous and the game is just diablo 3 maps ported into mobile it's also just a button masher with no real difficulty unless you are pvping against one of these mega whales. And then the infamous "you have phones, right?" Quote left a bad taste on everyone who cares about real diablos mouth. This game should never have had the diablo name its just a terrible bastardized version of the game that openly seeks your money instead of being fun and having things we could spend our money on. The amount of lies that blizz had for this game is also a bit ridiculous.