I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the old talents coming back.

[FAILoZOFF]

Unpopular opinion: DF talent trees have little to nothing in common with "old talent trees" and should not be called such as they have much more in common with current (MoP+) talents style mixed with borrowed powers, presented with little graphical spin.

Problem with old talent trees was that if you substracted all the mandatory talent's as well as "useless" one you were left (both of these were never in question really) with very little choice, but these were really usually the best ones, situational, minor tweaks that gave you little bit of this or that, nothing game/spec breaking. And yeah I miss not having to worry about my spec (whether or not it can perform in AOE, burst phases etc) all that much or having to re arrange my abilities every new boss fight or arena match.

So far from what i have seen (not even sure if thats official placeholders) for druid and dk, i gotta say I am not impressed. Having to choose between "core" things I used to have for years, feels and is indeed "impactful" but also not something I feel good about choosing.
I think classes/spec should be perfectly playable and "ready" baseline but there should be ideally many many small tweaks we can pick or skip.
I likes when each spec/class have had its own characteristics like this one was great for aoe, that one for burst damage but kinda lacked in sustain etc, with "current" talent style you can get that... if you pick up the "right" talents, for given task/bossfight/arenamatch.

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They're including a talent build save function, so you'll be able to simply load in the build for that fight if that's how you roll.

Ohhh that sure does sound fun, JK.

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I hope so... I really don't want to be snappin' pics of crap to remember or something.

luckyly it will still greatly work against your muscle memory so... goota deal with that!

[Aydinx2]

Unpopular opinion: DF talent trees have little to nothing in common with "old talent trees" and should not be called such as they have much more in common with current (MoP+) talents style mixed with borrowed powers, presented with little graphical spin.

Nobody cares about why something is called a certain way. Blizzard calls it talents so thats what we call them.

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Ohhh that sure does sound fun, JK.

It's a utility feature. It's not ment to be fun.

[hulkgor]

Good thing that the old talents aren't coming back then, 'uh?

[loras]

I'm just happy they're going for a comprehensive approach again, rather than spreading this stuff over four parallel systems like in SL (soulbinds, legendaries, conduits, normal talents... might be forgetting something).

If they make a system to add to it, it should at least be conceptually different in a clear way, if they can't do that then jamming it all into a single talent tree is the best they can do.

[FAILoZOFF]

i really dislike the new system, it seems to do everything wrong.

they disassembled the already over-pruned SLands classes and put the abilities onto talent trees, then gave us nowhere near enough points to actually make an interesting class.

As it stands right now there should be either a lot more "general talent" points or there should be a lot less filler on the general talent trees.
By the time we spend the general talent points to stitch the class back together into a competitive form we got no leftover points for anything fun.

exactly, this is just same sht all over again with illusion of "choice"

[Glorious Leader]

This is supposed to be a redo of the current system so of course many of our current abilities are going to be in the new tree.

Not necessarily. They could have granted those abilities as baseline and made new ones. I guess this is how they deal with ability bloat simple not make new abilities. Actually its worse than that... are you fucking telling me I have to pick tranquility now.. kinda garbage... Its pretty evident the game has had its budget cut...

[Alkizon]

FAILoZOFF
Unpopular opinion:

Actually, this is not an unpopular opinion at all, furthermore this is how things really are

How it supposed to be:
- everything, that goes under base spellkit, is for talents/items-sets -

and don't forget this part (no stat scaling with spec):

put on strength and avoidance - bear abilities work better; agility and attack power with accuracy - better as cat and so on

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Asrialol
I'm confused, I was expecting some sort of documentation here but instead it's links to your own opinions/previous posts?

Theoretically, it would be possible to compile statistics on user opinions on information platforms, but even if we approximate only from popular resources (official forum and a couple of Internet sites/more active&discussing users), then on each of them, at least in each of discussions, where a conclusion is made about "similarity of tree", there're indications of dubiousness thereof. This is quite enough to argue that opinion mentioned by poster in quote isn't "unpopular". imo, I don’t sin with logic (I’m not talking about popularity in my links, but explain/try to justify my wording, and they redirect from exactly this part of my sentence)

[Asrialol]

I'm not a fan of removing spells and talents, turning them into "new talents" and pretending it's diverse and a "choice".

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Actually, this is not an unpopular opinion at all, furthermore this is how things really are

I'm confused, I was expecting some sort of documentation here but instead it's links to your own opinions / previous posts?

[Lolites]

they disassembled the already over-pruned SLands classes and put the abilities onto talent trees, then gave us nowhere near enough points to actually make an interesting class.

this, i main frost dk with m+ obliteration build, and with the tree as it stands now its impossible to build spec i play right now...
it should bring more diversity, not push people even more into the "best" spec - in case of frost DK for m+ so far it seems to be breath or bust AGAIN

[RelaZ]

My main gripes with the new (old) talent system are:

A) Upon now seeing the Druid, DK and Priest trees it seems they've just taken the spellbook and dumped it in the class tree. Tons of things that are, should be, and pretty much always have been baseline, are now put in the tree where they compete against things that are simply much stronger. In the past it was not really possible (or the min/max mentality wasn't there) to change talents all the time, but now you simply won't have unique niche things that are fun and good for the game, simply because they are not stronger than other things (which are perhaps passive or just very boring in comparison - but again, much stronger). Essentially, we're being pruned of things that should be baseline/unavoidable autopicks.

B) Given the possibility to min/max your talents, changing them in the starting area of each arena, bg or before each dungeon/raid/raid boss you'll practically be forced to change up to ~1/3rd of your character all the time. I'm sorry, but I'm having enough keybinding issues and not really having a solid base as is. I wanted to play Feral Druid, not Feral Druid with xyzklmnop talents one fight, qwertyasdzxch talents the other fight, dzxdwqeads talents in a third fight etc., with half my UI changing every time.

C) The way the trees are structured, compared to the old pre-MoP talent trees, it seems that they're much more free. You can go one path, completely forgoing something else, so there's no stable base of "no matter how you spec, you'll have these things - then you can do minor modifications", which is how the old pre-MoP talent trees were designed. With these new trees the freedom, and thus lack of base, is much much larger (all you have to do is compare the old trees to the new ones to see it). Essentially, the design is becoming evermore fragmented.

[MCitra]

Tbh i love the old talents, they where the most fun we have had


I do not like the new comming. they are to messy to many base are into talenstree and not much is new at all.

[Makabreska]

The one thing that started to bother me is the ability bloat. Depending on spec, you can grab so many active abilities now.

[Private Matters]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

I will never understand people who think everything has to be child proof'd for them because the concept of thinking about things makes them stressed, if this stresses you I ENVY your life.

[Feril]

"Tree" systems are an archaic and cumbersome chore to manage, and are never fun to tinker around in any way.

I wish they would advance tech and systems in new gameplay-enhancing ways instead of going back to buried and rotten systems ("dailies are BACK baby! world quests 2.0!") just to be "safe" and because it's the hip thing to do to cater to nostalgia "everything was the best in its first iteration" extremists.

Everything is scattered, messy and unintuitive and changing just one thing means shuffling so much stuff around...

Yeah, this looks like the "bad system" of the expansion. Repeating past mistakes just to have to fix them later on... again.

[Resheph]

In the past it was not really possible (or the min/max mentality wasn't there) to change talents all the time, but now you simply won't have unique niche things that are fun and good for the game, simply because they are not stronger than other things (which are perhaps passive or just very boring in comparison - but again, much stronger). Essentially, we're being pruned of things that should be baseline/unavoidable autopicks.

OMG this is hilarious.

So for starters, this min/max mentality was there from the start of the game, and people spent LOTS of gold (Which was a Thing Back Then) to respec the hard way constantly.

Secondly, the reason the old talent system was abolished was exactly because people only went for the cookie-cutter optimal choices, and as at every level there was one far superior choice there was no meaning to the cyhocie in the first place.

Now, for better or for worse, they are at least trying to deal with this by making the choices interesting and matter. Whether they succeed or not we'll see when we actually get to play with it...

[FAILoZOFF]

A) Upon now seeing the Druid, DK and Priest trees it seems they've just taken the spellbook and dumped it in the class tree. Tons of things that are, should be, and pretty much always have been baseline, are now put in the tree where they compete against things that are simply much stronger. In the past it was not really possible (or the min/max mentality wasn't there) to change talents all the time, but now you simply won't have unique niche things that are fun and good for the game, simply because they are not stronger than other things (which are perhaps passive or just very boring in comparison - but again, much stronger). Essentially, we're being pruned of things that should be baseline/unavoidable autopicks.

yeah exactly, it is as it is

B) Given the possibility to min/max your talents, changing them in the starting area of each arena, bg or before each dungeon/raid/raid boss you'll practically be forced to change up to ~1/3rd of your character all the time. I'm sorry, but I'm having enough keybinding issues and not really having a solid base as is. I wanted to play Feral Druid, not Feral Druid with xyzklmnop talents one fight, qwertyasdzxch talents the other fight, dzxdwqeads talents in a third fight etc., with half my UI changing every time.

totally, one time they were fighting button bloat that never was all that severe but yeah, it could and needed to be culled a bit with little to no loss of gameplay, but next thing they do is introduction of systems that pretty much prevent you from taking advantage of your muscle memory.
Like, I dont know how others, but I have no problem playing all classes (everything keybound, even situational skils) in classic easily but I struggled like fk remembering to use one of more situational "talents" in BFA/SL let alone their keybinds. just couldn't build the instinct for it
this is especially annoying in PvP where in short time you have to evaluate your comp, your enemy comp, swap talents according, swap action abilities remember its keybind and remember to use it XD
brother told me that when cyclone became a talent he was forgetting that this ability even exists even when he picked it up for PvP

C) The way the trees are structured, compared to the old pre-MoP talent trees, it seems that they're much more free. You can go one path, completely forgoing something else, so there's no stable base of "no matter how you spec, you'll have these things - then you can do minor modifications", which is how the old pre-MoP talent trees were designed. With these new trees the freedom, and thus lack of base, is much much larger (all you have to do is compare the old trees to the new ones to see it). Essentially, the design is becoming evermore fragmented.

I thnink this fvcks up as well their ability to actually balance/adjust classes/specs compared how they could do that with old system where one ret pala next to other had basically exact same gameplay, sure one could have say bit shorter hammer of justice cd the other had bless of kings but fundamentally it was that same and if ret needed bit of aoe buff they just buffed divine storm and that was it more or less
I liked the old system just wish it had little more room for some small talents that slighty reduced this or that cd, increased range of x/y/z ability or gave some passive effect, as I said, picking between mandatory and useless talent's was never in question

[Elbob]

"Tree" systems are an archaic and cumbersome chore to manage, and are never fun to tinker around in any way.

I wish they would advance tech and systems in new gameplay-enhancing ways instead of going back to buried and rotten systems ("dailies are BACK baby! world quests 2.0!") just to be "safe" and because it's the hip thing to do to cater to nostalgia "everything was the best in its first iteration" extremists.

Everything is scattered, messy and unintuitive and changing just one thing means shuffling so much stuff around...

Yeah, this looks like the "bad system" of the expansion. Repeating past mistakes just to have to fix them later on... again.

Care to share how you think talents(or some similar system to differentiate characters of the same class/spec) should be done? Because trees aren't really cumbersome or archaic and are a ton of fun to tinker around with. Care to share the reasoning as to why any of those things you said are true?

These trees are far more advanced then vanilla trees and to claim its just a throw back for nostalgia is hilariously reductionist. How are these trees scattered and unintuitive? I really am looking forward to your example of a talent system that is more then just buzzwords.

[RelaZ]

So for starters, this min/max mentality was there from the start of the game, and people spent LOTS of gold (Which was a Thing Back Then) to respec the hard way constantly.

Well that's just false, and you know it. People (i.e. average players) did not change specs "all the time", i.e. every boss fight, every arena battle, BG (wasn't even possible) etc.

Secondly, the reason the old talent system was abolished was exactly because people only went for the cookie-cutter optimal choices, and as at every level there was one far superior choice there was no meaning to the cyhocie in the first place.

There will still be cookie cutter. Just more cumbersome and more switching.

This illusion that there can be some sort of "choice" when it's extremely easy to just mathematically calculate what is BiS needs to go.

Now, for better or for worse, they are at least trying to deal with this by making the choices interesting and matter. Whether they succeed or not we'll see when we actually get to play with it...

The only thing they're doing is pruning tons of things and making it so that 1/3rd of your character will change as you switch between different cookie cutter specs.

[Myela]

Honestly if this is something that stresses you out then WoW is probably not for you. There's a ton of gameplay mechanics that are a lot more complex than a talent tree. And if you're not doing complex content, why are you bothered about a talent tree anyway?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

The one thing that started to bother me is the ability bloat. Depending on spec, you can grab so many active abilities now.

This is definitely my biggest concern. Quite a few specs can go from a reasonable number of buttons to practically unplayable depending what talents happens to be meta.