[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Jotaux]

As long as they have wings on the feet I'm satisfied that they went the extra distance to be comics accurate because that's the dumbest part of his look.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You asked a stupid question, you got an answer.

I mean, if we were talking about Plato's Atlantis...Plato would be a good source.

But we're not talking about Plato's Atlantis. We're talking about Marvel's Atlantis.

It's like saying the MCU's Thor doesn't have an "Aesir vibe".

[Wonderment2]

Wh.. why so many feathers for an underwater nation?

They should probably be fins

[Ivanstone]

Funny, I think he looks like the perfect asshole. Also, he got the foot wings so it seems like he will be our first real mutant in the MCU (since Ursa didn't used his bearform). It's also interesting that they changed Namora to look like from Earth-421, prolly to make Namor more unique.

Here are his wings and jaguar helmet:
https://twitter.com/NamorNews/status...35245587644418

I don’t care what he looks like but if we don’t a good “Imperious Rex!” out of him, this interpretation is a complete failure.

[Wonderment2]

I was under the impression he was underwater

Yes and they're going for mezo-american inspiration.....

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I don't think people are complaining about what he look, but his cloth, he look like an azteca guy with feathers and gold, straight up from Zandalari, didn't give me any atlantean vibe.

Greece plus higher sea levels is a very over done "Atlantis" look.

[Ivanstone]

Yes and they're going for mezo-american inspiration.....

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Greece plus higher sea levels is a very over done "Atlantis" look.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loca...es_of_Atlantis
There are a lot of hypothetical locations for Atlantis including the Western Atlantic Ocean. Mezo-American culture wouldn’t look out of place here.

[Endus]

Try asking Plato. He gave a pretty good fucking description once upon a time.

We're not even sure Plato was retelling a story he'd heard; there's a good chance he just made it all up as a metaphor. Aristotle's on record thinking Plato was bullshitting.

Architectural details in Plato's account are very sparse, and cultural details beyond the legal (which line up WAY too conveniently with Plato's own thoughts on the subject to be taken seriously) are essentially nonexistent.

Some of the few details he did provide, like extensive irrigation systems and integrating waterways into the city proper and so on, line up surprisingly well with Mesoamerican civilizations, better in some cases (albeit accidentally so) than most Mediterranean civilizations Plato would've been familiar with at the time.

[Wonderment2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loca...es_of_Atlantis
There are a lot of hypothetical locations for Atlantis including the Western Atlantic Ocean. Mezo-American culture wouldn’t look out of place here.

Yeah it's always in the Atlantic Ocean, well based on Platos original lore, since it's beyond the Pillars of Hercules (Strait of Gibraltar). So really anyway Atlantic culture or Greek (considering a Greek invented it) works and is valid

[Svifnymr]

I mean, if we were talking about Plato's Atlantis...Plato would be a good source.

But we're not talking about Plato's Atlantis. We're talking about Marvel's Atlantis.

It's like saying the MCU's Thor doesn't have an "Aesir vibe".

Man, that was another thing that pissed me off with Ragnarok. Hel being Thor's unknown sister (and God of Knives). Just bleh! Not as bad as the horrible stagger on the deserter slaver when she debuts, but still. Plus they didn't even give Jormungandr a spot!

I think the Other Atlantis with it's seven kingdoms would work better for the various things, so maybe Namor will have an Meso-american part and a greek part and stuff, but they probably just wanted something different art wise.

[PrimiOne]

DC has won the underwater battle. Simple as that.

They came first and they came great and I would like to point out what a fucking irony is an universe with Batman and Superman having its bigger success and the best movie in... Arthur Curry.

Do you remember Aquaman one decade ago?




Warner achieved to change the perception of Aquaman as a joke.

This is the reason we are seeing a version of Namor based in the mesoamerican culture and wearing the Huitzilopochtli helmet : they just don't want to do another classic Atlantis that will draw comparisons with Dc's (no matter if Namor is one of the few characters that actually predates its dc counterpart)...they don't want to do Namor the Aquaman of Marvel.

Now let's not lose context that this is a Black Panther movie and Wakanda has an accentuated tribal aspect not only in the visual design ( the use of ultratech zulu spears and shields as one of many examples) but in the social structures too like the trial for kingship or , Marvel did not dared to do that in the movies , the Dora Milaje being the first candidates to become Queen. Wakanda is both the most advanced nation in the world and a nation mantaining traditions that span over millenia.

That tribal aspect I think that matches right with the way they are basing Atlantis in the Mexica's culture. Two ultratech tribes clashing.

Now....

A ) I hate the moustache and the goatee. It shrieks in my head.

B) I'm completely lost about the story of "Wakanda Forever". I don't even have theories.

[Shadowferal]

Namor's last name is MacKenzie.
I suppose it'll be the same comedic bullshit they've been peddling since making the god of thunder into an alien.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Warner achieved to change the perception of Aquaman as a joke.

They really haven’t he’s still seen as a joke just instead of such blatant shows like family guy and Big Bang we now have the totally not aqua man of the boys or invincible.

[Endus]

Namor's last name is MacKenzie.

Earth-616 Namor's last name.

MJ in the MCU isn't Mary Jane Watson, it's Michelle Jones-Watson. Plenty of changes like that.

I suppose it'll be the same comedic bullshit they've been peddling since making the god of thunder into an alien.

So, the early-mid '60s?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Namor's last name is MacKenzie.
I suppose it'll be the same comedic bullshit they've been peddling since making the god of thunder into an alien.

Ultron was invented by Hank Pym...not Tony Stark
Drax is a human from Earth named Arthur Douglas... not an Alien.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

The movies make changes from the comics. Get over it.

Hell even in the comics different universes have different versions of characters

Here's a different Namor for Earth 6706:



He married Susan Storm...and they have a son named Remy...aka Gambit



There's an infinite amount of possibilities. Multiverses are like that.

[VMSmith]

There's an infinite amount of possibilities. Multiverses are like that.

I'm one of the last people to care at all about comic character switcheroo's, we all know it's part of the genre.

But the concerns of folks who don't like this should be given consideration, all the same. Rather than cry out "racist!" (which I know no one has actually done, but the implication is there and will increase as the topic goes on, I'm sure), try seeing it from their point-of-view, because IMO they do have a legitimate grievance.

The simple truth of the matter is that blackwashing is acceptable in film-making, currently, and by most cultural leftists. Cultural right-wingers in Hollywood and the public, conversely, don't have much problem with whitewashing. Both groups are, in my mind, hypocritical to some degree. Either it's all ok or none of it is ok. We can't keep pretending only the one we, personally, prefer is ok and expect those who prefer the other to remain silent.

No one should complain about this portrayal of Namor, just the same as IMO no one should have complained about Scarlett Johansson as Major or Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One. That's my personal preference, that we just let them cast whoever they want to cast for whatever reason they want to cast them so long as it's historically accurate where appropriate (real world, thinking of the Anne Boleyn series here and similar).

Or we could say no race/gender-swapping at all and cripple our storytelling, but at least it would be fair.

[Biomega]

Either it's all ok or none of it is ok.

That's oversimplifying things. Whitewashing was (historically) done to deny representation; blackwashing (if you even want to call it that) is done to restore representation. It's an overcorrection against decades of precedent. Is it "racist" on a technical level? Sure. But without overcorrection the status quo has too much inertia to simply shift on its own. It's like saying "steering hard left or hard right is never going to get this car driving straight" - which is technically true in a vacuum, but if you've been steering hard right for a long time then you also need a lot of hard left for a long time to get back on track. To say that both are either equally okay or equally not okay is missing the point a little. Of course it goes too far sometimes - all things do. And just like all things it can be ideologically and politically weaponized irrespective of the actual aim.

But before this digresses more... I'm happy to see them branching out a little into some other comics. Namor has his own following; not sure how well that slots into the existing MCU, but I guess we'll see. So far they've done a fairly good job at integrating new things, but Atlantis worries me far less than mutants.

[Endus]

The simple truth of the matter is that blackwashing is acceptable in film-making, currently, and by most cultural leftists. Cultural right-wingers in Hollywood and the public, conversely, don't have much problem with whitewashing. Both groups are, in my mind, hypocritical to some degree. Either it's all ok or none of it is ok. We can't keep pretending only the one we, personally, prefer is ok and expect those who prefer the other to remain silent.

That argument only makes sense if you pretend this is occurring in a cultural void where past history does not exist.

And that's not reality.

"Whitewashing" was a practice of culturally and ethnically erasing identities other than white identities, or using white actors to portray racist caricatures of ethnic individuals. It wasn't just a switch-up that was happening in a vacuum, it was an expression of white supremacy done to ensure people of color remained marginalized.

That's just not anywhere close to the case with the current diversification of roles, and white actors are still getting the majority of roles anyway.

[Shadowferal]

DC has won the underwater battle. Simple as that.

Sadly true.

they just don't want to do another classic Atlantis that will draw comparisons with Dc's (no matter if Namor is one of the few characters that actually predates its dc counterpart)...they don't want to do Namor the Aquaman of Marvel.

That facial hair will draw comparisons nonetheless.

[Xilurm]

Namor looks a lot like his comic counterpart.

Namora doesn't.

[SavoirFaire]

Or we could say no race/gender-swapping at all and cripple our storytelling, but at least it would be fair.

That’s where I ended up on this. Switch what you want, I’ll criticize the story and the acting. The “no switching” path limits storytelling potential. It’s just that simple.