Do you think talent trees will be cookie cutter?

[Mamut]

Ofc there will be cookie cutter builds. It's just inevitable no matter how well balanced they will be.

[Ielenia]

Of course I knew.

Then you admit you intentionally diverged from the topic being discussed to introduce a red herring.

And now you try to use "whataboutism" to try to dodge that fact.

[kenn9530]

aslong as there are dps meters and sims available, there will be 100% cut and dry cookie cutter specs. And these will often sacrifice a lot of important shit like interrupts.

Its time for dps meters to go from this game

You know how stupid this sounds right, removing the ability to check players performance means you wouldnt know what players were bad or not and causing you to wipe on a boss for weeks, WoW is about the numbers and bosses are tuned so players should at least be able to play a class to a reasonable level, in raiding evaluating player performance is a 100% must and also on pushing high level keys.

[Triceron]

Then you admit you intentionally diverged from the topic being discussed to introduce a red herring.

And now you try to use "whataboutism" to try to dodge that fact.

So you're gonna ignore the rest of my comment that brought things back on topic?

Looks like you're only concerned about keeping things off topic then. Fucking hypocrite lol

You're literally using the same whataboutism right now. You're also intentionally diverging the topic, even when I opened up discussion back on topic. Pot calling Kettle black?

Anyways, I don't see the point humoring this any further. If I provided on topic discussion and you don't even bother humoring it, it tells me you're only interested in arguing for the sake of arguing. You be you, have a good day.

[Donald Hellscream]

people tend to gravitate towards the talents with best throughput, so without a doubt there will be a theorycrafted best selection of talents, that most people are probably just gonna copy off of a guide.
in order to avoid a cookie cutter system, they basicly will have to balance every talent perfectly so performance will be the same no matter what you choose, and that will never happen because it would be such a tremendous undertaking that I highly doubt they are ever gonna attempt it in earnesty.

[Garymorilix]

This is more like "If I tell you that you can eat a pizza or soup, is that really a choice? Because I will pick pizza every time and that means the choice doesn't exist!"

Yes, people like YOU will make the same choice. I'll do exactly what I've done since day one: Spec however seems fun to me and laugh at people like you.

I mean, okay.

Throwing a tempter tantrum won't make it any different.
You can "laugh" all you want the point of this discussion is to talk about the existence of meta builds.

I dunno what this "people like you" thing is meant to say, in fact, it kinda sounds racist to point fingers like that.

Even if Blizzard gives you 2 thousand talents there will be an optimal route to take for both M+, Raids, PvP and there will be very slight variance in what you change between these (if you are lucky to be one of the specs that actually does change something).
This is a fact.

[SinR]

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: Yeah

[Ielenia]

So you're gonna ignore the rest of my comment that brought things back on topic?

"The rest of your comment" is irrelevant because it doesn't change the fact you decided to give an answer that doesn't pertain to the topic and refuse to admit to your error, instead you insist you were in the right.

Fucking hypocrite lol

Projection won't save you. I've said my piece and exposed your error. Deny it however and how many times you wish, but it won't change the facts. You could have avoided this entire conversation if you just admitted to your mistake, but you decided to double-down on it with "read between the lines" bullshit.

[Tojara]

It's cool if they put in enough choice that you could actively try different things out in say, PvP or in particular dungeon setups. IIRC some of these talent choices delve into defensive play, or interrupt based play which is an active decision you as a player can actually make. PvE it's a bit different, but depending on your composition or other gear stats you can quite literally neglect some defenses or talents that you otherwise couldn't.

Not that this would be a common thing, but in seasons where DKs aren't really focused or a team doesn't have a hard stun, you don't need to take IBF if you don't want to anymore. You could make the same decisions in group and to a lesser extent raid play depending on what things you need.

Another thing that people might often omit as well is that sometimes there's a specific choice you can make that make a class harder to play but offers higher throughput if you pull it off correctly. Taking that talent and performing suboptimal with it however either puts it on par, or under other choices that directly compete with it. If the balance is correct the superior option shouldn't be magnitudes higher than the other, but low and behold people will take it anyway because they're told they have too. I can't give examples off the top of my head, and many of them regard trinkets, certain talents, and snap shotting (which is mostly gone) but these types of decisions have popped up from time to time. Warlocks in MoP and S2M priests in Legion are a good example (also bad in regards to straight up throughput) of taking certain talents and performing awful with them (especially with S2M) as opposed to just taking something safer and still being 'okay'.

This isn't me saying cookie cutter talent setups won't exist, they will. Their design goal should be that there are some points outside of a throughput perspective that you can actively play with.

[ONCHEhap]

There obviously will be a top DPS build for all specs, but lots of gameplay styles will be available and likely viable for anyone who's not a top mythic raider.

You'll have plenty of utility options if you play with a premade team however, as talents open up the options of having specialists in a team if it's agreed upon amongst the team. For example you can have specific interrupt specialists taking the talents that improve their output for interrupting while allowing others to skip on the interrupt talent if their points are better spent elsewhere.

If you're a pug only player, you'll never be as free as a guild raider, but that's to be expected

[Breccia]

It doesn't matter if mathematically you increase the number of wrong choices

This answer seems closest to my own.

I routinely use "the wrong" talents, legendaries, trinkets, or other options because I know my guild constantly struggles with heals. I don't say things like "ICV is wrong" they just making decisions for a far more viable group of players -- people pushing Mythic keys and Mythic bosses. I'm not one of them. And as much crap I spew about my guild, I'm still happier there or I'd have left four xpacs ago.

Chocolate chip cookies are the most popular for a reason. If you're asked to bring dessert to a party filled with strangers, whether you're bringing 12 cookies or 144, you don't stock up on maple walnut and coconut macadamia. You bring the classics, and maybe a few others for the niche appetites.

[Toppy]

Looking at the talent tree I see people ultimatly having fewer options than what we have currently. So much in these trees are clear "Best' choices. Just like the old ones.

[Gumble]

Are the new talent trees going to usher in a new era of flexibility? Or is it going to be a one-spec disaster in the making?

Hard to say. They could do one or the other at this point, depends how much they work and add to it. The Priest trees give me hope that they are expanding them and making something that can actually offer unique-ness.

So, we'll see..... I need to see more classes and bigger/better trees than what they showed for Druid/DK to really say.

Priest for example I can see Raiding, pvp, M+ talent setups that will all be different. Still likely cookie for the content, but at least different.

Druid/DK, look like they will be standard outside of 1-3 pts.

So hard to say yet.

[NineSpine]

I mean, okay.

Throwing a tempter tantrum won't make it any different.
You can "laugh" all you want the point of this discussion is to talk about the existence of meta builds.

I dunno what this "people like you" thing is meant to say, in fact, it kinda sounds racist to point fingers like that.

Even if Blizzard gives you 2 thousand talents there will be an optimal route to take for both M+, Raids, PvP and there will be very slight variance in what you change between these (if you are lucky to be one of the specs that actually does change something).
This is a fact.

No, there will be a very slight variance in what YOU change. Not me. I will spec however I find most fun.

[Fantazma]

The new talent trees are the only good thing coming to DragonFlop... so enjoy this little moment of fun.

p.s: as it only has 2 specs... the Demon Hunter will be incredibly Overpowered.

[unbound]

Are the new talent trees going to usher in a new era of flexibility? Or is it going to be a one-spec disaster in the making?

Yes to both.

It doesn't matter what you provide, there will the "best" answer. Even with today's limited talent trees, there are still the "best". So, if you are the type of player that just does what you are told is the best, there will be no change for you.

For the rest of us, it adds a breath of flexibility. Not everyone wants to be carbon copies of everyone else.

[Toppy]

The new talent trees are the only good thing coming to DragonFlop... so enjoy this little moment of fun.

p.s: as it only has 2 specs... the Demon Hunter will be incredibly Overpowered.

how do you figure?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes to both.

It doesn't matter what you provide, there will the "best" answer. Even with today's limited talent trees, there are still the "best". So, if you are the type of player that just does what you are told is the best, there will be no change for you.

For the rest of us, it adds a breath of flexibility. Not everyone wants to be carbon copies of everyone else.

Have you tried using the talent trees? They're big, but flexible they are not.

[NineSpine]

how do you figure?

- - - Updated - - -

Have you tried using the talent trees? They're big, but flexible they are not.

I've messed around with them quite a bit and I found them pretty flexible.

[SinR]

Let's look at Shadowlands Soulbinds.

Where's the customization and tweaking? Where's the free choice?

[Zorachus]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blood-d...nflight-327569

Tons of options, but people replying saying at the end of the day, there will still only be 1 to 2 solid builds, with nothing radically different than we have now in Shittylands. So yes these new talent trees have a zillion new rows of options to click on, but doesn't seem like we'll get a freaky cool build if we want a Blood / Frost type Tank or something unique and totally different.