Kindness

[Schizoide]

Sure, but what (I think) he's talking about is the relative anonymity and lack of social structures in live WoW. With servers clustered and phasing, when you steal a kill from some Alliance guy in ZM, you can be sure there won't be any consequences for acting like a dick. Back in vanilla you had a reputation on your server and that rep mattered. I remember back in the day one dude stole loot in Maraudon and was essentially blackballed for it, he had to change his name or switch servers. That doesn't really happen anymore, unless you do it inside your own guild.

Edit: Was responding to Roanda, but I agree with Khaza also.

[NineSpine]

I dont agree with this.

Simply because...have you seen MMO-C? There is unpleasant people even with heavy moderation.
What makes you think is the fault of "game design"?
People are just awful sometimes...such is life

This level of negativity and toxicity is quite rare on other PvE oriented games. It's certainly common in games like LoL, but that isn't what WoW is comparable to.

WoW's community is so out of control that my wife had to stop playing the game because the toxicity was so overwhelming. She is a childhood war refugee who served two tours in Iraq and works with the severely mentally handicapped... and wow was too mentally stressful for her. That's how bad it is.

[thunderdragon2]

The "yes" button on the vote to kick needs a 6 second activation timer. I would bet that alot of people will press the no button instead if you do. Nobody likes a popup in their face, and currently just click yes to get rid of it. If you are really hurting the party they will wait those 6 seconds.

usually when a vote to kick pop up its been called for and organised, if people really want rid of some1 like a trolling tank then they will wait

[Big Thanks]

This level of negativity and toxicity is quite rare on other PvE oriented games. It's certainly common in games like LoL, but that isn't what WoW is comparable to.

WoW's community is so out of control that my wife had to stop playing the game because the toxicity was so overwhelming. She is a childhood war refugee who served two tours in Iraq and works with the severely mentally handicapped... and wow was too mentally stressful for her. That's how bad it is.

Sorry to hear about your wife! I hope she is well.

But every game i end up playing i always find toxicity...unless is Final Fantasy, which to be honest i havent played much but i hear you can get banned by being toxic.
Guild Wars 2 can be quite toxic too.

You have any PvE game examples of less toxicity? I would maybe give them a try...

[NineSpine]

Sorry to hear about your wife! I hope she is well.

But every game i end up playing i always find toxicity...unless is Final Fantasy, which to be honest i havent played much but i hear you can get banned by being toxic.
Guild Wars 2 can be quite toxic too.

You have any PvE game examples of less toxicity? I would maybe give them a try...

Thank you, she's great.

There is always toxicity, for sure. But the wow level of toxicity is the kind you generally only see in really competitive PvP games. There are always shitty people, but wow so actively reward and encourages being shitty that it makes the situation insane.

[deenman]

how immature to resort to name-calling when all i've done is state facts.

thats not at all a fact,people in random groups just auto click yes like zombies,THAT is a fact,i have seen it happen all the time for over a decade,you can go test it urself,heck some people even do a reverse and vote kick the person who complains about them and votes THEM before the other one does,and the zombies in the grp just press accept

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Just report them for disrupting your game play. New reporting system does allow it. Haha
Honestly, if you really wanna be safe in this game just play with your irl friends.

[neescher]

if someone initiated a vote-to-kick, and the rest of the group agreed, then the system is working as intended.

Let's be real, if someone initiates a votekick, 90% of ppl click yes without even reading what it says. "sure whatever, just make that damn pop-up go away"

Recently a friend told me he was leveling in a dungeon, then he got votekicked. 5 minutes later, one person from the group (they were a 3-man party) whispered him if he wants to group up with them to queue for dungeons. He replied "no, you just kicked me, why would I queue up with you again?" and they responded "no we didn't kick, you, we just clicked 'yes'". Like, people don't even know what they're doing.

One person initiating a kick, and the others just getting pop-ups, is not a good system. There should only be a kick when several people actively vote to kick someone.

[ellieg]

When you say you weren't doing really well, how bad we talking? Like under the dps of the tank? Under the healer? 10% of the next person?

Ppl don't like to carry, and they don't like things taking far longer than usual. Sucks it happened but if 3 or 4 other ppl decided kicking u was best, then u can't be upset that they arent forced to play with you. Reevaluate your skills/rotation, or just require and hope the next group will carry.

[loras]

I'm not trolling. There, that out of the way, this is my recent experience. I'm a decade into Wow, played in BC, every expac since. I always play hunter, it's the easiest with my particular issues. Brain damage. Anyway, I like collecting transmog, and with that in mind, I leveled a Lock so I could get staffs, cloth, and some of the gorgeous tier sets. I get to 50 with Dungeon finder, no problem. I go to Timewalking today, MOP, and I make it to the first boss before getting kicked. Why?? It's not Mythic. It's not progression. It's not timed, and it's not heroic. I was dpsing, granted, I'm slow, and lock is NOT my main. Or my second, or my third-but I was trying. I don't understand why this toxic behavior has to exist. I don't get why you kick someone that's trying, on a Timewalking, on a non-60. What makes these people tick? I don't get it. Feel free to enlighten me. Again. Not a troll.

I know the pain, no brain damage but rather general neurological issues that cause great variance in my performance.

It's simply that there is no context for them; you're just bad to them, someone who has neglected to become good, and as such they ferl you neglected them too, which "justifies" their behaviour.

There is ultimately no real fix for this that doesn't come with great drawbacks, but as someone knowing "both" perspectives i can say two things:
1. The brain is the organ of adaptation, and well over a decade and a half of experience with my own issues and research, as well as with a genuine host of experts i can say with melancholic confidence: Our true understanding of it is at best rudimentary. As such you should try to find ways that work for you, always seeking to improve. It will not be easy, it will be painful, there are no guarantees that it will bear any fruit. But if you want real hope to face "real" challenge that is the sort of sloe you face.
2. What follows from the former is that neurotypical people have, almost by definition, narrower view of the world. The world is, whether they admit it or not, adapted to their every need. It's not perfect for them either, but it's a lot less likely to just randomly crush them. Consequently their familiarity with true adversity is limited at best.

One odd anecdote that i like to share is of when a fire broke out in my building: Everybody panicked, like headless chickens running around, they suddenly could not do even the most basic things anymore. To me, well, it is always chaos like that. The upside of real chaos is that it smothers the "human chaos", so i ended up coordinating and, in effect, commanding these fearful muppets to tackle what was really just a very unimpressive fire (it was limited to a room and part of a hallway). Mind you this building literally had a firehose nearby, it wasn't a complex situation, but panicked people are... barely human.
Point is: "Normal" people have no empathy for this stuff, whether from rationality or just plain old instinctual, precisely because they often lack any conception of a real problem, or experience few enough of them to push the memories away safely.
This offers you no direct solution, but it does offer perspective: You have been tested, and are thus prepared - and still standing.
The same does not go for these "normal" people in practice, don't hate them for their blind prejudice, pity them for their blindness. And for the consequences they suffer when they face a true test.

[Moggers1990]

I'm not trolling. There, that out of the way, this is my recent experience. I'm a decade into Wow, played in BC, every expac since. I always play hunter, it's the easiest with my particular issues. Brain damage. Anyway, I like collecting transmog, and with that in mind, I leveled a Lock so I could get staffs, cloth, and some of the gorgeous tier sets. I get to 50 with Dungeon finder, no problem. I go to Timewalking today, MOP, and I make it to the first boss before getting kicked. Why?? It's not Mythic. It's not progression. It's not timed, and it's not heroic. I was dpsing, granted, I'm slow, and lock is NOT my main. Or my second, or my third-but I was trying. I don't understand why this toxic behavior has to exist. I don't get why you kick someone that's trying, on a Timewalking, on a non-60. What makes these people tick? I don't get it. Feel free to enlighten me. Again. Not a troll.

Shitty people exist (especially on the internet), welcome to life. Ignore them and get over it.

I personally rarely ever come across this "toxic behaviour" that's apparently so common that it's ruining the game. Maybe a few times where somebody else has directly fucked up in M+ and then they have left the group, so after I thank them for dropping my key and I sometimes get some sort of insult back, which I just find hilarious.

But in the case of timewalking or something else equally as mundane, then it's impossible to know if it is someone "trying their best" or just being half AFK that so many people admit to doing (Timewalking/Battlegrounds etc). I would 100% vote yes to someone who is AFK'ing. I'm not putting in more effort just because they can't be bothered, fuck them. But if you are "trying your best" and if it does seem like you're AFK'ing then I'm sorry, but maybe you need to put in a tiny bit of effort by reading one of the incrediby simple guides that are easily available (yes, even if it's just a transmog farming character).

Basically. People being toxic towards you is shit, yes. But there's always a reason for it, even if it's just "you're not as good as them". Show effort, say you're new to the spec or just learn to play it well and you'll avoid 90%+ of these "horrific experiences".

And I'm not some elitist player. Half the M+ I do is carrying friends and new people. (We even spent the other night inviting the worst looking DPS for our last spot to help out and out of respect for the iLvl 223 Shaman signing up to a +19 and having a good time with him).

[Rageonit]

if someone initiated a vote-to-kick, and the rest of the group agreed, then the system is working as intended.

So if the jury proclaims someone guilty, it doesn't matter if the person did something wrong or not - the system is working as intended, because the jury agreed.
Oh blissful ignorance.

[Fitsu]

I'm not trolling. There, that out of the way, this is my recent experience. I'm a decade into Wow, played in BC, every expac since. I always play hunter, it's the easiest with my particular issues. Brain damage. Anyway, I like collecting transmog, and with that in mind, I leveled a Lock so I could get staffs, cloth, and some of the gorgeous tier sets. I get to 50 with Dungeon finder, no problem. I go to Timewalking today, MOP, and I make it to the first boss before getting kicked. Why?? It's not Mythic. It's not progression. It's not timed, and it's not heroic. I was dpsing, granted, I'm slow, and lock is NOT my main. Or my second, or my third-but I was trying. I don't understand why this toxic behavior has to exist. I don't get why you kick someone that's trying, on a Timewalking, on a non-60. What makes these people tick? I don't get it. Feel free to enlighten me. Again. Not a troll.

Without their side of the story or any evidence this is an impossible conversation to have. How can we answer why you was kicked if we don't know what happened? What is it you hope to gain from this thread?

[ellieg]

So if the jury proclaims someone guilty, it doesn't matter if the person did something wrong or not - the system is working as intended, because the jury agreed.
Oh blissful ignorance.

This isn't a jury lol. Its a majority of the group deciding they do not want to stay grouped with someone for whatever reason. Its really not that big of a deal

[Ilookfly]

So if the jury proclaims someone guilty, it doesn't matter if the person did something wrong or not - the system is working as intended, because the jury agreed.
Oh blissful ignorance.

That is how the system is set up in wow yes. Your comparison is poor and not the same.

- - - Updated - - -

If you get grouped with 4 random people and they all feel like they are better off replacing you then thats life. They were looking for a different gaming experience than you. Better luck in the next group.

[Rageonit]

That is how the system is set up in wow yes. Your comparison is poor and not the same.

That something technically works does not mean it works as intended. Pretty sure if you'd asked the devs if they intended to develop a system that lets you kick people out of groups for no good reason, they'd deny it. It's simply an unfortunate side effect of the system; saying that it works as intended only because you're able to kick people out of groups is pretty narrow minded. There's just no better system in place, that's all there is to it.

[ellieg]

That something technically works does not mean it works as intended. Pretty sure if you'd asked the devs if they intended to develop a system that lets you kick people out of groups for no good reason, they'd deny it. It's simply an unfortunate side effect of the system; saying that it works as intended only because you're able to kick people out of groups is pretty narrow minded. There's just no better system in place, that's all there is to it.

If 4 ppl don't want to group with you, why should they be forced to? What makes you think its "no good reason"?

[NineSpine]

Shitty people exist (especially on the internet), welcome to life. Ignore them and get over it.

I personally rarely ever come across this "toxic behaviour" that's apparently so common that it's ruining the game. Maybe a few times where somebody else has directly fucked up in M+ and then they have left the group, so after I thank them for dropping my key and I sometimes get some sort of insult back, which I just find hilarious.

But in the case of timewalking or something else equally as mundane, then it's impossible to know if it is someone "trying their best" or just being half AFK that so many people admit to doing (Timewalking/Battlegrounds etc). I would 100% vote yes to someone who is AFK'ing. I'm not putting in more effort just because they can't be bothered, fuck them. But if you are "trying your best" and if it does seem like you're AFK'ing then I'm sorry, but maybe you need to put in a tiny bit of effort by reading one of the incrediby simple guides that are easily available (yes, even if it's just a transmog farming character).

Basically. People being toxic towards you is shit, yes. But there's always a reason for it, even if it's just "you're not as good as them". Show effort, say you're new to the spec or just learn to play it well and you'll avoid 90%+ of these "horrific experiences".

And I'm not some elitist player. Half the M+ I do is carrying friends and new people. (We even spent the other night inviting the worst looking DPS for our last spot to help out and out of respect for the iLvl 223 Shaman signing up to a +19 and having a good time with him).

When everyone says something smells like shit but you don't smell anything... guess what smells like shit.

[ippollite]

Unless its an egregious DC or someone sat at the door of the instance, i'll never click yes on a vote kick. But i'll definitely initiate them when those conditions are met.

Basically, you got grouped with some buttheads. Keep in mind, and this goes all the way back... i remember late vanilla (LATE VANILLA!!!), dungeon groups assuming that everyone should know every pull in wailing caverns and having to point out continually that there might actually be new players or at best, alts, in our group. Some people in the game just lack common sense and basic empathy. This is a crypto social game. 'If you arent pulling your weight, you're directly or indirectly making their experience worse'. I want to stress once again, this isnt new (despite how much cold comfort this affords you). Sometimes you're going to run into those people. The key is to just shake it off, remember how crappy you felt, and once comfortable with your class (or back on a class you're experienced with) make sure you speak out when others are in the position you once were.

I mean, its not perfect and you're not going to change the culture (and maybe you'll single yourself out now and again to some BS by defending that new or inexperienced player), but who cares? There's another group waiting to go, and stuff to do in the meantime. I know this sounds like a 'dont take it personally' talk. But i'd insist its the absolute opposite. Take it very personally. And dont be like those assholes in your groups. Its a teaching moment.

[Rageonit]

If 4 ppl don't want to group with you, why should they be forced to? What makes you think its "no good reason"?

You've been already given examples why. Often people click "yes" without second thought, because they don't care what's the reason for the vote kick (if there's any) - and they can do it because there are no consequences (esp. in regards to DPS who is replaced almost instantly). You're only assuming that "4 people don't want me"; all you know is that they clicked "yes". People clickicing on things without second thought is the reason why anti-virus software exists :P To assume they read what they click is a stretch.