Kindness

[VMSmith]

this ^

When the kick box pops up folks just click whatever to make it go away, and since the game will feed the group another player in a couple minutes, there just isn't any incentive to not be a jerk.

Which seems weird, to me. Every time I'm in queued content if a kick window pops up with no prior discussion or comment I reflexively click "no" rather than "yes". I don't mind kicking someone, if necessary, but there has to be a reason for me to behave negatively towards another person. People that just click "yes" without consideration or initiate kicks without discussion are far worse than anything the people they are trying to kick could be doing.

[ellieg]

good enough to click yes but not good enough for you to initiate the kick yourself? how good of a reason can it really be then?

that kinda just proves his point: people just click cause it pops up. it wasn't bad enough for you to spend the whole 5 seconds it takes to initiate the vote.

they could change vote kick in a dozen ways to require 5 seconds of effort on every members of the party and the amount of them that would happen would be cut in half.

be kinda funny if they did away with the vote alltogether, and just kicked after 3 people have initiated a kick on their own. i wonder who would get kicked more often then, the person saying "kick that guy" or the one it's being said too.

In my 17 years of playing, I've seen maybe 10 ppl vote kicked. Most were dcs or afks. I know the most recent was when the healer literally refused to heal and we wiped 3x in throne of the tides to the 2nd boss that grips a player in the air.

I think overall this isn't that big of a problem. But if it happens a lot to someone, id look inward. Id be very curious to know jist how little dmg OP was doing. It sucks for his situation but randoms don't know that and aren't required to carry.

I also don't think ppl just clicking yes just because, happens nearly as much as ppl claim. Most times I see a box pop up, there's an accurate reason for it. If its not accurate and a dude is just trolling, the vote almost never passes and the dude gets mad and leaves. Or if there's no reason, its very obvious to anyone paying attention to the group why they shld be kicked.

[Hellobolis]

In my 17 years of playing, I've seen maybe 10 ppl vote kicked. Most were dcs or afks. I know the most recent was when the healer literally refused to heal and we wiped 3x in throne of the tides to the 2nd boss that grips a player in the air.

I think overall this isn't that big of a problem. But if it happens a lot to someone, id look inward. Id be very curious to know jist how little dmg OP was doing. It sucks for his situation but randoms don't know that and aren't required to carry.

I also don't think ppl just clicking yes just because, happens nearly as much as ppl claim. Most times I see a box pop up, there's an accurate reason for it. If its not accurate and a dude is just trolling, the vote almost never passes and the dude gets mad and leaves. Or if there's no reason, its very obvious to anyone paying attention to the group why they shld be kicked.

honestly, the kicks for low performances are quite rare these days, as long as you do anything people are happy and they often people don't even care if you take a 5 min break as long as you say it. more often in 5 mans it's two people taking shit to eachother and one of them ends up kicked. or not. sometimes people just finish the dungeon and then leave. or just put up with it cause the runs are otherwise fast and they don't want to go back into dps queue. my favorite is when the guy who thinks he has the upper hand initiates a kick, it fails and then he gets kicked and then the initial guy is oblivious to the fact that there was a vote against him too.

lfr is another story there if you just randomly say "kick name" after a wipe there is a good chance it'll happen before anyone even has the time time to ask what he did/didn't do.

[Lolites]

just because the system technically works, it doesn't mean it works as intended in each and every instance.

nobody claims the system is flawless, so ofc there will be handfull of cases where people get kicked for no reason, but it does work in vast majority of cases so it indeed works as intended...

btw, even in cases of "i was kicked for no reason" we can be sure for quite a lot of them there WAS reason, people either just lie or are not aware what the reason was

[Flaks]

Sorry to hear about your wife! I hope she is well.

But every game i end up playing i always find toxicity...unless is Final Fantasy, which to be honest i havent played much but i hear you can get banned by being toxic.
Guild Wars 2 can be quite toxic too.

You have any PvE game examples of less toxicity? I would maybe give them a try...

Genshin Impact. Consistently wholesome though if you start frequenting Internet forums you'll quickly run into trolls and "hyper competitive meta slaves" who will trash on people for not playing optimal setups in a pve only game where you can just easily progress on your own.

[Lolites]

Okay, sure, and probably the other 80% of the group that OP was in given they kicked him for being slow.

i guess no one wants to do raids either, bcs if you will go for sightseeing there and waste time of people waiting on you at boss you might get kicked too (in PUG ofc)...
its almost like it have fuck all to do with content and all to do with people...

[munkeyinorbit]

You are right in principle, but tbh most vote kicks happen, because people don't read or don't care and just click away.

Where's the data in that claim? Or is that just what you do and you're trying to normalise it by projecting your activities on to the community?

From op description it sounds like the system is working.

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We both know that is false. 100% just a troll reply. Why even bother replying if you're just going to be a dickhead. This person seemed geninune.

What did you expect to happen after someone I initiated a vote kick and two others agreed? To have some lot drop? Of course it's working as intended.

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Some people suck. What can ya do.

I guess we could read their threads on mmo and judge them. I can't imagine people who don't suck getting kicked from a group and then making a thread about it.

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there's very little kindness on these forums. just a bunch of narcissists who think they're smart, everyone else is dumb and they love to let you know that.

Hahaha.

The irony.

[NineSpine]

That is one aspect of it, yes. If you're holding up traffic, people will beep at you. If you're causing a massive queue, people will be annoyed with you.
If people are running Timewalkings as quickly as possible for their weekly or to level up, and someone is there holding things up with the mentality of "it's not Mythic with a timer, so there's no rush" or you're half-AFK not trying or barely scraping together auto-attack DPS or generally cannot play the game that well, then yes. Of course people are gonna get annoyed and want to get someone else in. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that.

But being casual and enjoying the game at your own pace and skill level is fine, I couldn't care less. But if you keep running into this issue, then either you should realise there's a common theme or avoid these scenarios you're putting yourself into.
I haven't been randomly kicked from a group for as long as I can remember. But I rarely PUG, and when I do I put in the same effort as if it was a guild/friend's run because I enjoy the game through doing well and never want to negatively impact someone else's game time.

If you have a favourite band, but hate loud crowds and go to a concert. Do you really think you'll be liked if you tell everyone to stop singing so loud or can they pause the show so you can get a drink or go to the toilet? No, they'll tell you to fuck off.

Don't put yourself in situations you're not suited for and surround yourself with likeminded people so you can enjoy the game your way without judgement.

The whole toxicity discussion has way too many factors other than just "why can't everyone be nice?".

Unfortunately you want people to be accepting of you as much as everyone else does.

Ok, so by the fifth rape threat my wife got while playing, what should she have done differently to not deserve it?

[Relapses]

Ok, so by the fifth rape threat my wife got while playing, what should she have done differently to not deserve it?

Why do you keep asking this loaded question every time the topic of casual vs. hardcore comes up? I've seen you ask this in several threads and you're seemingly never satisfied with the answer you get. It screams bad faith.

To OP: People suck, in general, and there's no easy way to combat the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

[NineSpine]

Why do you keep asking this loaded question every time the topic of casual vs. hardcore comes up? I've seen you ask this in several threads and you're seemingly never satisfied with the answer you get. It screams bad faith.

To OP: People suck, in general, and there's no easy way to combat the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

It comes up when people start insisting that toxicity is the fault of the target.

And this problem doesn't exist in GW2, FF14, Destiny 2, SWTOR, ESO, and I can keep going. Are there some dickheads? Of course, but being a dickhead isn't the normal, expected, rewarded way to interact with people in those games. This kind of pervasive sociopathic behavior can only be found in WoW and games like LoL.

[Kiwijello]

Wow is no longer about playing the game. It's about fudging everything to endgame and then buying your way to some sort of sad recognition from the community. It's now about what you have to show off, not how you got it.

Are the communities still a thing? I found some really decent people there. Some people that liked a slower pace and didn't rage at someone sneezing.

[Otimus]

The WoW community is fucking terrible is most of why.

and it has nothing to do with "GROUP FINDER LETS PEOPLE BE ANONYMOUS THAT IS WHY!".

people behaved like this in classic, too, and they were not blacklisted for it. This is what normal WoW behavior is and always has been, and, contrary to how people want to act, Blizzard games DO have more toxic communities than most things. People want to sugarcoat that for some... reason.

[Magicon]

Thanks guys. I'm not dumb, but that experience definitely made me feel stupid. Appreciate it.

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I was staying with the group, I just wasn't perfect at mob pick up.

There we see why you were kicked. Just don't pick up/pull mobs next time as a clothie dps warlock! That's the tank's job

[Relapses]

It comes up when people start insisting that toxicity is the fault of the target.

And this problem doesn't exist in GW2, FF14, Destiny 2, SWTOR, ESO, and I can keep going. Are there some dickheads? Of course, but being a dickhead isn't the normal, expected, rewarded way to interact with people in those games. This kind of pervasive sociopathic behavior can only be found in WoW and games like LoL.

I don't particularly care for victim blaming either but there are better ways to make that point. You shouldn't go straight for the nuclear option by asking people to contend with your wife's rape threats.

[Snowfunk]

Did you write a message?
Did you say anything, did you tell them about your impairment?

If not, then I don't think you can blame them, at all.
It's an unfortunate reality, that in this game there is a lot of leeches.
People who want the reap the rewards, but not put in the work.
In LFR, Time-walking, Dungeons, Pug raids and even regular raiding.

Dead weight need to be rooted out, this is the reality that is WoW.

I'm sorry this happened to you.
The best you can do, at the start of any activity, write a message, tell people about your limitations.
No one is obligated to carry you through anything, but there's a good chance people will be understanding, if you're upfront with them.

If not, this is likely not the last time you will be removed, under the assumptions of being a low performing, low effort leech. And rightly so.

[Feanoro]

OP:
Welcome to design that rewards speeding through everything, because it includes tons of chores and busywork. Sucks, doesn't it?

[pahbi]

Which seems weird, to me. Every time I'm in queued content if a kick window pops up with no prior discussion or comment I reflexively click "no" rather than "yes". I don't mind kicking someone, if necessary, but there has to be a reason for me to behave negatively towards another person. People that just click "yes" without consideration or initiate kicks without discussion are far worse than anything the people they are trying to kick could be doing.

I agree.

Folks just click whatever and don't worry about it.

Its especially rough on DPS because the que waits are typically 10-50 minutes.

[Djaye]

The reality is that most people still playing WoW aren't interested in things like fun or adventure. It's all about getting through the shitty "content" as quickly as possible to get whatever the reward is and get to the next piece of shitty content to try and get more rewards. People that play to have a good time are a minority and you're slowing down the people that just want their virtual peanut.

nail on head

i would say even the implementation of M+ elevated this to levels never before imagined. tis truly a dickhead circus in LFR/LFD

i always find it odd that when the kick window pops up, i hit no and the person is still usually kicked. didnt think it was supposed to work that way.

[Relapses]

nail on head

i would say even the implementation of M+ elevated this to levels never before imagined. tis truly a dickhead circus in LFR/LFD

i always find it odd that when the kick window pops up, i hit no and the person is still usually kicked. didnt think it was supposed to work that way.

If 4 people see it and 3 click yes and you click no it'll still kick. If you are in duo queue you have kick immunity for this reason (unless the person you're queued with clicks yes lol).

[Schizoide]

true story: People don't play Hunter because it's easy..! They play because it's the most fun class and here's the proof:

I personally switched my main to a hunter primarily for the QoL.

Hunters don't have to switch to tank spec to easily solo elites.

Hunters fight at range, and WoW is, has always been, and will always be biased towards ranged DPS.

(BM) hunters are unique in that they can move while attacking at range. Huge QoL, and it lets you fill important roles in many encounters, so you're the hero. And you can move out of the fire without canceling your spell and cursing out loud.

Out in the world, hunters have a short duration way to get out of combat to escape mob trains or just to easily loot. And if you screw up in group/raid content and pull aggro on an add? Not a problem, feign and it's fixed.

Hunters have a CC that works on pretty much every non-boss.

Hunters have two health bars, themselves and their pet, and they can easily heal the pet for zero downtime between fights.

Hunters have a relatively short cooldown interrupt and offensive dispel, only competing with shamans there.

Hunters are a pure DPS class, so it's likely that at least one of their specs will be competitive in any given patch.

Hunters can spec into a 30% baseline runspeed increase (while not attacking, true) and have a great sprint too. After playing a DK, I can't deal with 100% runspeed and a crappy sprint anymore. You feel like you're moving through molasses, and the devs have made it clear that moving slowly is integral to their vision for DKs. This one is huge for me.

Similarly, hunters can spec into stealth to get places indoors without fighting anybody. This is useful more often than you might think.

Hunters can escape fall damage with disengage. As with most stuff on my list here, not unique to the class, but regularly useful.

And that's why I switched to hunter, after many years of maining a DK. It wasn't because they're easy to play; I have had max-level characters of every class since WoTLK and I can say the mechanical and tactical challenge of playing a hunter is basically the same any other ranged class (if you ignore the easy movement, which is a big thing to ignore, but still).

It isn't "easy mode". It's "less annoyance mode". I just grew weary of all the bullshit.