Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[Th3Scourge]

Elden Ring? I haven't played it, but as far as I am aware, we haven't had any huge major patches to that game, nor expansions. It's not kept updated like many online games.

Do you really think they would give out content patches similar to like World of Warcraft for free, year after year? NO WAY they would ever do that.

It only came out this year. And you can play the game start to finish and everything in between for the box price.

Wow gets content patches because of the subscription model. It's always been a subscription model game. You literally cannot play without an active subscription (beyond the free trial). The expectation is that the game is updated to keep the world and story moving forward and that the servers are actively maintained. The value of this subscription in recent years has significantly declined and an argument could be made that the player base is paying to beta test for the majority of the current products life cycle.

Not every game needs to be a sub model/MTX to be viable. Not every game needs to be constantly updated to be enjoyed and have an active and healthy player base

[TheRevenantHero]

Don't go there, I've been trying to be nice, but you talk like a child. You are emotional, personal and constantly change the subject. At least try to be an adult.

You don't understand the word objectively. An example: You can like the sun or you can hate the sun, your opinion is subjective. But it is a FACT that the sun is hot, you cannot have an opinion wheter the sun is hot or not, that is objectively a truth.

I like Diablo Immortal, you don't, neither of us is objectively correct, we both have opinions. Neither is correct, neither is wrong.

I love the game, I am not a simpleton, I have an IQ of 130 according to my country's official military IQ evaluation, which is like top 10% (not a brag but you called me stupid) and like I tried to tell you, I've spent ZERO euros on the game.

So I'm neither stupid or a whale. I simply LOVE Mmorpgs and I LOVE the Diablo franchaise, you just can't accept that this game is PERFECT for many of us, cause it take the best of 2 worlds.

No. You are just a massive fucking liar and are the actual child here. For fuck's sake, you legit said that gambling was a good thing earlier in this thread. Everything you say really should be disregarded since you're clearly a liar. you are objectively wrong about everything you've said so far. Period.

I don't believe even for a moment you have an IQ that high. I legit feel like I'm talking to someone who works for Blizzard PR and just spew bullshit to defend their titles. Because that's all you have done so far. you lied and spewed PR level garbage.

I don't believe you are not a whale. If you loved the Diablo franchise, you wouldn't be defending D:I because it is a bastardization of the franchise. So it's clear that D:I is the first Diablo game you've ever played.

[Kyanion]

anyone with a 3 digit IQ would know that.

I have an IQ of 130

Dude we get it.

On topic though, I don't really think I'd be trumpeting the things DI does right (to you) when you neglect the really stupid things that have nothing to do with the P2W aspects of the game. Those being: Assemblies and the buffs relying on some rando afker to decide to give out the buff to others. Specific times you must be on to get said buffs or raid the vault or even do PvP. Gear not being randomly dropped (green set items) where if you want better versions of the specific set you get to farm the same dungeon over and over. However, you can't even GO in said dungeon unless you bring enough people.

It feels very Anti-Diablo to have such things being in the game. I don't have much love for D2 but I do enjoy the ability to just log in D3 and kill things and anything in the game can drop off any mob. I got bored running the same dungeon 50 times for a set drop and I sure did not look forward to doing the dungeon X times more as I upgraded my gear to get improved versions of said set item. But never mind that, you can't even finish the sets until Hell4. Fun times.

While D2 has flaws and things it does right DI also has some glaring flaws among the things it does right. This is before the hovering doom of P2W is even brought into the conversation which makes DI rightly hated by many.

[Nymrohd]

Diablo 2's endgame is objectively better than D3 AND D:I.

? D3 also lets you hunt for Uber versions. It also has set challenges and bounties and rift runs are two different systems plus things like Cow and Greed realm runs.

DI endgame has
Bounties, Side Quests, Elite Quests, Zone Events (world Bosses), Battle Pass Grind, Dungeons, Helliquary, Battlegrounds, Challenge Rifts, Elder Rifts, Shadow events (Contracts, Path of Blood, Vault Raids, Shadow Wars), Immortal events (Vault Defense, Rite of Kion raids), Cycle of Strife (Rite and Challenge of Immortals). I am not really going to count LEgacy of Horadrim (sure it has a few minutes of gameplay but it's mostly a system) or Assembly (great for a bit of socializing but no gameplay). We are also getting events starting next weekend.

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Dude we get it.

On topic though, I don't really think I'd be trumpeting the things DI does right (to you) when you neglect the really stupid things that have nothing to do with the P2W aspects of the game. Those being: Assemblies and the buffs relying on some rando afker to decide to give out the buff to others. Specific times you must be on to get said buffs or raid the vault or even do PvP. Gear not being randomly dropped (green set items) where if you want better versions of the specific set you get to farm the same dungeon over and over. However, you can't even GO in said dungeon unless you bring enough people.

It feels very Anti-Diablo to have such things being in the game. I don't have much love for D2 but I do enjoy the ability to just log in D3 and kill things and anything in the game can drop off any mob. I got bored running the same dungeon 50 times for a set drop and I sure did not look forward to doing the dungeon X times more as I upgraded my gear to get improved versions of said set item. But never mind that, you can't even finish the sets until Hell4. Fun times.

While D2 has flaws and things it does right DI also has some glaring flaws among the things it does right. This is before the hovering doom of P2W is even brought into the conversation which makes DI rightly hated by many.

I get what you are saying, Diablo games were games you could play solo. I also hate the fact that there are so many events that are available at specific times, especially Assembly and Bilefen Arena. Still the game was from day 1 sold as a multiplayer game.

[MoanaLisa]

I mean, that's exactly why D3 is a piece of shit. It has no end-game. You get your seasonal set, upgrade gems and grind paragon.

That's a complaint about ARPG's generally though. Path of Exile is published by Grinding Gear Games. It's basically how ARPG's work. You level up and then you kill stuff in whatever content is available to improve your gear. I get the argument but it's a statement that mostly applies to the genre more than just a single game. And that's fine if ARPG's aren't your thing.

[Th3Scourge]

That's a complaint about ARPG's generally though. Path of Exile is published by Grinding Gear Games. It's basically how ARPG's work. You level up and then you kill stuff in whatever content is available to improve your gear. I get the argument but it's a statement that mostly applies to the genre more than just a single game. And that's fine if ARPG's aren't your thing.

My argument is more about the complete lack of depth and replayability that comes from how basic the end-game loop is for D3.

ARPGs are basically go out, obliterate the entire screen, get random drops, get upgrades - rinse and repeat. That is the core gameplay loop of all ARPGs. Some are just not that great at it - namely D3 and by extension DI. The gear, which is supposed to be the biggest player motivation, is just far too simplified to be compelling, and the distinct lack of trading significantly diminishes the experience.

[Nymrohd]

I'll never understand the focus on trading. It's just a version of artificial scarcity like D3 originally had. Only instead of being scammed by Blizzard you get to be scammed by other players.

[Popastique]

Diablo 2's endgame is objectively better than D3 AND D:I.

So objective, wow

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Diablo Immortal is an objectively shit game. The only people who like it are whales and simpletons. And hey! You're both of those things!

Poor whales, oh noes

[kamuimac]

If by retro you mean a game that I just pay the box price for an never have to spend another cent to fully enjoy every aspect of the game, no bullshit "battle pass", no +800% value bs currencies, no prompts after every campaign boss kill to spend money, then yes, I do like retro

you do relaise that you can do exackly the same in DI ?

i mean - i had a blast playing it - tried few classes - spend like 50 hours playing got bored stopped playing - exackly like i did with diablo 2 .

maybe in couple of months i will go back to it maybe not. still was very nice experience and 100 % free.

[Popastique]

I'll never understand the focus on trading. It's just a version of artificial scarcity like D3 originally had. Only instead of being scammed by Blizzard you get to be scammed by other players.

Dunno about D2, but trading in POE is what makes the game great. You always have ways to upgrade your character if your item luck is on the bad side, though trade interface is outdated and pretty shitty in that regard. They still haven't figured out automatic trading or auction system, or anything like that

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you do relaise that you can do exackly the same in DI ?

i mean - i had a blast playing it - tried few classes - spend like 50 hours playing got bored stopped playing - exackly like i did with diablo 2 .

maybe in couple of months i will go back to it maybe not. still was very nice experience and 100 % free.

How dare you enjoy a game that's free, heretic?

[Apatrida]

So after reading the whole thread I understand I need to invest heavily in this game. How much should I start with? Low five digit USD?

[Nymrohd]

Dunno about D2, but trading in POE is what makes the game great. You always have ways to upgrade your character if your item luck is on the bad side, though trade interface is outdated and pretty shitty in that regard. They still haven't figured out automatic trading or auction system, or any of that.

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How dare you enjoy a game that's free, heretic?

DI has the interface actually. You can do trading with platinum for gems, legendary gems and skill stones. Heck that is probably the best way for a F2P gamer to get some good gems; extract skill stones and sell them for plat, use plat to buy gems. I've sold a couple of skill stones and got about 3k plat for each; 3/5 5 Star gems go for anywhere between 24-55k.

I think it would not be that complex to add gear in the auction house as well. You could then sell some exceptional set items or legendaries which would create a solid loop; legendaries and sets from dungeons are uncapped so grind those, sell for plat, buy gems. Meanwhile the whale could just buy the gear by buying plat making even more money at Blizzard. It's really these things that are bad about DI; it's not that the MTX system is extremely greedy, it's also not that smart. Whales don't have ways to boost friends (imagine a crest that would guarantee gems for EVERYONE in the rift), people who like to grind don't have a way to be useful to whales. The game lacks a proper market dynamic.

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So after reading the whole thread I understand I need to invest heavily in this game. How much should I start with? Low five digit USD?

Nothing. Start with nothing. Then if you like the game and can afford to, work through the bundles; I think they are like 250-300 Euro in total. After that you can go for the weekly bundles which are about 30-40 Euro per week? And if you play melee there is a solid power up that costs a crazy amount in special bundles (about 200 Euro to get a 3star rank 4 gem that is 2-3 best for melee specs).

[DookuDookuTree]

Blizzard is a private business company so on the contrary, they are doing quite well. Blame the idiots that give them money. "I hate asparagus so I think I will eat some more asparagus." non monetized & 100% free games are 1 in a million & are the only games made with joy & passion for more than money in the bank.

[Nymrohd]

Blizzard is a private business company so on the contrary, they are doing quite well. Blame the idiots that give them money. "I hate asparagus so I think I will eat some more asparagus." non monetized & 100% free games are 1 in a million & are the only games made with joy & passion for more than money in the bank.

People absolutely can have passion and feel joy with their work and still make money out of it.

[Ghost of Cow]

People absolutely can have passion and feel joy with their work and still make money out of it.

No way, if you actually make a living so you can have food and shelter you're a filthy sellout. You have to make music games for your pAsSiOn and nothing more.

(Another one of those words that are oddly common in this discussion. Probably because - like the other common talking points - it came straight out of a Bellular rant or something.)

[Vasilisa]

I'm kinda amazed that you're still arguing over this garbage.

[Battlebeard]

It only came out this year. And you can play the game start to finish and everything in between for the box price.

Wow gets content patches because of the subscription model. It's always been a subscription model game. You literally cannot play without an active subscription (beyond the free trial). The expectation is that the game is updated to keep the world and story moving forward and that the servers are actively maintained. The value of this subscription in recent years has significantly declined and an argument could be made that the player base is paying to beta test for the majority of the current products life cycle.

Not every game needs to be a sub model/MTX to be viable. Not every game needs to be constantly updated to be enjoyed and have an active and healthy player base

Of course you can play it from start to finish, that's primarily a single player game, that business model works for that game.

But if Elden Rings plan to put out multiple expansions and even more major content patches, the initial 1 time purchase will not be enough to fund that, they will need a change.

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No. You are just a massive fucking liar and are the actual child here. For fuck's sake, you legit said that gambling was a good thing earlier in this thread. Everything you say really should be disregarded since you're clearly a liar. you are objectively wrong about everything you've said so far. Period.

I don't believe even for a moment you have an IQ that high. I legit feel like I'm talking to someone who works for Blizzard PR and just spew bullshit to defend their titles. Because that's all you have done so far. you lied and spewed PR level garbage.

I don't believe you are not a whale. If you loved the Diablo franchise, you wouldn't be defending D:I because it is a bastardization of the franchise. So it's clear that D:I is the first Diablo game you've ever played.

I have played Diablo 3 for like 1500 hours, I even have 100% of the achievements in Diablo 3, and I played through the original D2 many times as well back in the day. I think Immortal is a worthy Diablo title. Why can't you understand some of us love that game, cause I am clearly not the only one, if i was, this game wouldn't make millions and millions.

I DO think Gambling is a good thing, that's not a lie, it's a different opinion.

I defend the game cause I love the game, and it has gotten an unfair treatment from the start. And for the last time, I am a F2P player, I do NOT buy things in the game, I can't afford it at the moment.

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Dude we get it.

On topic though, I don't really think I'd be trumpeting the things DI does right (to you) when you neglect the really stupid things that have nothing to do with the P2W aspects of the game. Those being: Assemblies and the buffs relying on some rando afker to decide to give out the buff to others. Specific times you must be on to get said buffs or raid the vault or even do PvP. Gear not being randomly dropped (green set items) where if you want better versions of the specific set you get to farm the same dungeon over and over. However, you can't even GO in said dungeon unless you bring enough people.

It feels very Anti-Diablo to have such things being in the game. I don't have much love for D2 but I do enjoy the ability to just log in D3 and kill things and anything in the game can drop off any mob. I got bored running the same dungeon 50 times for a set drop and I sure did not look forward to doing the dungeon X times more as I upgraded my gear to get improved versions of said set item. But never mind that, you can't even finish the sets until Hell4. Fun times.

While D2 has flaws and things it does right DI also has some glaring flaws among the things it does right. This is before the hovering doom of P2W is even brought into the conversation which makes DI rightly hated by many.

I am NOT saying Immortal is flawless, there are some things I want different, like these:

1. Make set items random
2. Make dungeons cross-server
3. I hate getting duplicate Bestiary pages, would change that

But other than that, I don't see many problems with this game.

[xskarma]

Enough with the personal attacks. Discuss the topic while staying respectful of other posters.

[Kyanion]

I think Immortal is a worthy Diablo title.

I mean I think that one, besides the P2W discussion, is the one people are having a problem with. Yes you may feel it is a worthy title but I just don't get that being the case for many people. It has similar aspects to Diablo 3 but it peels away many of those things to coat it with crappy practices where drops only come from specific places, artificial gating behind paragon levels of obtaining some items and events only being at certain small time windows.

If you removed the name from the game and played it, would you think it was a game that invoked the feeling of playing Diablo? That the systems, designs and items felt like Diablo 2 or 3 or a mix? I don't think I could say that. I see attempts to be like Diablo 3 that are very very watered down in spell selections, legendaries to change how spells work and the weak set system. This is not even crossing the P2W aspect of awakened gems that start granting CDR and other things you wish you could access as a F2P or even small spender in the game.

[MoanaLisa]

I mean I think that one, besides the P2W discussion, is the one people are having a problem with. Yes you may feel it is a worthy title but I just don't get that being the case for many people. It has similar aspects to Diablo 3 but it peels away many of those things to coat it with crappy practices where drops only come from specific places, artificial gating behind paragon levels of obtaining some items and events only being at certain small time windows.

There's an article in today's Los Angeles Times newspaper about Mike Ybarra, Blizzard, their culture and product. It's mentioned in there in passing that as of the first month out about half of the players of Diablo: Immortal are new to the Blizzard brand. So it's fair to say that 'many people', maybe half, have nothing to compare it to and therefore won't care that it's different from D-X. For my part, if they removed the name from it, I would laugh and wonder who the fuck had the stones to create a mobile clone of Diablo, so yeah, I would recognize it. It was never meant to be exactly like a Diablo PC title so comparing it to D3—another hilarious 'failure' that sold dozens of millions of copies—doesn't make any sense.

The Apple App store has it rated as 4.5 out of 5.0 with nearly 115,000 ratings. I looked it up on Google Play where it says the reviews are a little worse: 3.7 stars, 687,000 reviews and 5 million plus downloads. Fuck me if I hear anyone cite MetaCritic again to show that the game is some kind of failure. The game is doing fine, no matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about it. Every bit of real news about the game shows it's doing well.

I'm ambivalent about the MTX. I don't plan to spend anything on it and will content myself with slow-to-no-progress when I get there and then killing demons for 15 minutes while waiting for my dinner order. That's fine for a free game.

Blizzard's biggest mistake in my opinion was listening to their players and creating a PC client for the game. But people moaned and groaned about how they would never play it on their phones or tablets and it's not surprising that many of them are moaning and groaning that they'll never play it on their PC. That's probably for the best as the PC client is an amateurish port that should have never gotten out the door even in beta state. Blizzard tests the patience of its PC customers on a regular basis by releasing unfinished crap and they need to stop that. It's annoying enough, although understandable, with big releases like full-price games and expansions but on this small stuff they need to start getting it right the first time.

To my mind that's the problem here. Not that a mobile title has an aggressive MTX revenue scheme. That's fairly normal. Blizzard's QA failing as badly as it has been the last years is the real scandal.