Instead of "Dracthyr", we should just get player-sized Dragons

[Teriz]

Out of pure laziness, yes.
No lore reasons or otherwise. Or else they wouldn’t be giving them armor from the barber shop.

Only viable excuse would be if they actually had drastically different body type options…. But even then just some more work into it would solve the issue.

Not out of laziness, out of avoiding the model from looking like a jumbled mess with clipping all over the place. What's the point of giving a model full armor if the helmet, back, shield, 2H weapons, boots, pants, and gloves can't be shown without them clipping with the model?

You guys simply have no idea what you're talking about, and the real truth behind all of this is that you simply want a human in a lizard-man suit.

THANKFULLY Blizzard sees things differently.

[Ielenia]

It’s the exact same reason Bears, Cats, Moonkin, and Tree form doesn’t got full transmog armor. The Dracthyr have a body structure that works against WoW armor and gear. Again, look at their wings. They alone remove the chance to equip cloaks two handers, and shields because they would clip wildly and simply look terrible.

So yeah, I defend the decision to have their dragon forms be armor-free.

Using backpack transmogs completely hide everything that is stashed on the back, that includes shields, staves, two-handed weapons, etc. There are also multiple quests that give you a backpack. Off the top of my head, there is a world quest in Maldraxxus where you kill slimes and suck up the slimelings into your backpack, and then there's one in Zereth-Mortis where you gotta get wombata babies with a backpack on you.

On top of that, saying "having wings would prevent showing stuff on your back" is as nonsensical as saying "having horns and/or long ears would prevent showing helms" or "having muzzles or tusks would prevent showing helms with face covers" or "having hooves would prevent showing boots".

In short: having wings does not preclude having backpacks or items on your back.

[Myradin]

Not out of laziness, out of avoiding the model from looking like a jumbled mess with clipping all over the place. What's the point of giving a model full armor if the helmet, back, shield, 2H weapons, boots, pants, and gloves can't be shown without them clipping with the model?

You guys simply have no idea what you're talking about, and the real truth behind all of this is that you simply want a human in a lizard-man suit.

THANKFULLY Blizzard sees things differently.

Yeah, they want their scaley suits naked.

[Teriz]

Again: dracthyr are not dragons. They're hybrids of draconic descent.

No need to go over this again, since you've been proven wrong multiple times over.

Druids make up for it with heavily customizable forms, and you can still see your transmog while doing DPS.

This is a double standard. Essentially you're saying that its okay for Druids to not show transmog in combat form, but it's a deal breaker for Dracthyr because of "reasons".

Also you can't fully see your transmog in either Druid DPS form. Cat form doesn't show transmog, Moonkin form doesn't show transmog, and the Astral Glyph makes your transmog transparent with stars flying around it.

By that logic, so can the druid tank. Also, your argument here is directly at odds with your previous one here that talked about "can't se transmog while tanking" for druids.

I'll repeat; Saying that you can't see your transmog as a Dracthyr is a false statement.

Which means nothing...

I could imagine that for many players, being able to play as a dragon and gaining access to the powers of the dragonflights trumps any versatility that the Druid class offers.

And DKs are using lich magic without being liches. So what? If your argument is true, that the dracthyr can't use their draconic powers in visage form, then it means they're using a lesser or weaker version of the dragon's visage ability, since dragons can actually use their dragon powers in visage form. Another evidence of that is that apparently the dracthyr cannot fully hide their dracthyr features, considering they're unable to hide their horns and scales, from what we've seen of the previews so far.

Again, draconic magic INCLUDES the ability to transform into a mortal or into a dragon. Thus when a Dracthyr is in Visage form and turning into a dragon, they are using draconic magic to do so.

Your question is irrelevant, because we're not talking about trolls. We're talking about the dracthyr, which are supposed to look like dragons, and instead they look like anorexic salamanders when compared to the real deal.

In other words, Trolls are somehow not anorexic despite them being skinnier than Dracthyr.

You didn't say it was the "only" one, but you did stipulate it as a qualifier, so to belong to the 'dragon' category, it has to meet all your qualifiers, which the green and blue dragonflight don't. And if all the qualifiers aren't met, then they don't belong to that category.

For example: "bikes are motorized vehicles that use fuel to run, and can carry a passenger, and has two wheels" , meaning that, to be considered a bike, it has to have an engine, it has to use fuel, has to be able to carry a passenger, and has to have two wheels. But if not all qualifiers need to be met, then trucks are bikes, motorized lawnmowers are bikes, houses are bikes, etc.

Nope. I was pointing out that we have a flying magical reptile that breathes fire and you're saying it's not a dragon. You bringing up Emerald Drakes has literally nothing to do with what I said, and nothing more than a whataboutism.

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Yeah, they want their scaley suits naked.

It's not uncommon for dragons to not wear any armor in dragon form.

[Nightshade711]

Not out of laziness, out of avoiding the model from looking like a jumbled mess with clipping all over the place. What's the point of giving a model full armor if the helmet, back, shield, 2H weapons, boots, pants, and gloves can't be shown without them clipping with the model?

You guys simply have no idea what you're talking about, and the real truth behind all of this is that you simply want a human in a lizard-man suit.

THANKFULLY Blizzard sees things differently.

Coming from the person that believed that blizzard would be able to “fix every single possible issue” with playing an actual large dragon… you can’t seem to understand that it’d be quite easy to deal with clipping.

Hiding cloaks/weapons is not an issue because it’s already done with some transmogs.

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It's not uncommon for dragons to not wear any armor in dragon form.

Luckily for us, they’re not dragons.
Even on the website they make the distinction that they’re Draconic Humanoids/Humanoid Dragonkin
Quite different from Dragons.
And if that in your mind somehow means “dragons” then that makes Dragonspawn and Drakonids also dragons.

[Teriz]

Coming from the person that believed that blizzard would be able to “fix every single possible issue” with playing an actual large dragon… you can’t seem to understand that it’d be quite easy to deal with clipping.

They did fix the problem; They made the dragon large and bipedal. So we get to play as a dragon without causing the significant technical issues that you constantly complained about before reveal.

Hiding cloaks/weapons is not an issue because it’s already done with some transmogs.

So you're saying that people who are obsessed with transmog would have no issue with their cool weapons, shields, and cloaks clipping wildly with the Dracthyr model? Let's stop being ridiculous here.

Luckily for us, they’re not dragons.

A magical flying reptile that breathes fire is not a dragon in what universe?

Even on the website they make the distinction that they’re Draconic Humanoids/Humanoid Dragonkin

You do know that Dragonkin includes dragons right?

Quite different from Dragons.
And if that in your mind somehow means “dragons” then that makes Dragonspawn and Drakonids also dragons.

If they're magical flying reptiles that breathe fire, sure why not?

[Auburst]

IMO, that's the one thing that I'm still frigid towards about them. I'm fine with their proportions and what we've seen of their customizations SO FAR but like... come on Blizzard, you've had beast races for years where you've just turned leg armor into basically ankle warmers and deformed the everliving hell out of helmets, this really doesn't seem too far from that.

I would get sacrificing helmets since their head shape is drastically different, but unless there's a ton of unique stuff going on with their rigging (which we can't know until alpha) I don't see why exclude so many armor pieces.

I genuinely fucking hate how they look and the fact they don't have full transmog. It feels like a perfect hit in the sack.

It’s the exact same reason Bears, Cats, Moonkin, and Tree form doesn’t got full transmog armor. The Dracthyr have a body structure that works against WoW armor and gear. Again, look at their wings. They alone remove the chance to equip cloaks two handers, and shields because they would clip wildly and simply look terrible.

So yeah, I defend the decision to have their dragon forms be armor-free.

3d armors would work alright on them.

At this point they could make the Dracthyr 2 feet tall, not be able to use any mounts, and wear actual diapers, and Teriz would defend that.
I could see “well uh they are dragons so they don’t need to use mounts do you ever see Alexstraza or Wrathion ride a horse”

“Well you see diapers are the only thing that’d be able to stay on when shifting in and out of dragon form.”

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Luckily you are one of the only ones that feel that way.
So blizzard will be giving them armor. Might not be until 12.0 but it’ll happen eventually so they can say “we listened to feedback”

It's just sad.

[Nightshade711]

So you're saying that people who are obsessed with transmog would have no issue with their cool weapons, shields, and cloaks clipping wildly with the Dracthyr model? Let's stop being ridiculous here.

Someone can’t read what was posted
I said it wouldn’t be an issue if those were hidden because they already are for some mogs.
(Plus Dracthyr can’t use shields now anyways)

You do know that Dragonkin includes dragons right?

Mechanically for gameplay reasons yes. Yet there is no other source in lore that dragons are called DragonKIN.

If they're magical flying reptiles that breathe fire, sure why not?

Lol

[Teriz]

Someone can’t read what was posted
I said it wouldn’t be an issue if those were hidden because they already are for some mogs.

You can't hide weapons and shields.

Also if we're forced to hide them, what's the point?

(Plus Dracthyr can’t use shields now anyways)

Weren't you just saying that Blizzard supposedly plans to expand dracythyr to multiple classes? What? You honestly believe that if Blizzard does that they're going to ban Dracthyr from being any shield-using class?

BTW, that's a good indicator that they're never going to expand the Dracthyr beyond Evoker.

Mechanically for gameplay reasons yes. Yet there is no other source in lore that dragons are called DragonKIN.

It's amazing how people make up crap just to argue for the sake of arguing.

Dragonkin are all creatures descended from and including dragons,[1]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dragonkin

[Nightshade711]

You can't hide weapons and shields.

Also if we're forced to hide them, what's the point?

Weren't you just saying that Blizzard supposedly plans to expand dracythyr to multiple classes? What? You honestly believe that if Blizzard does that they're going to ban Dracthyr from being any shield-using class?

BTW, that's a good indicator that they're never going to expand the Dracthyr beyond Evoker.

Do you even play the game?

You do realize that you can hide weapons and shields on your back with certain back transmogs but you can still use said weapons/shields, right?

You do realize that the same exact same thing coukd happen with Dracthyr when they become other classes… as Ion already said they could after DF.
Unless suddenly Ion saying something isn’t valid anymore for everything except your flimsy ‘dragons’ claim.

It's amazing how people make up crap just to argue for the sake of arguing.

Ironic

[Teriz]

Do you even play the game?

You do realize that you can hide weapons and shields on your back with certain back transmogs but you can still use said weapons/shields, right?

You do realize that those are specific cloaks from a specific part of the game that some players might not want to grind through to obtain just so their weapons and shield don't appear on their back, right?

Also you do realize that hiding the weapons, shield, and cloak as a solution seems rather strange when your entire argument is complaining about not seeing weapons, shield, cloaks and other armor on the Dracthyr model.

You do realize that the same exact same thing coukd happen with Dracthyr when they become other classes… as Ion already said they could after DF.
Unless suddenly Ion saying something isn’t valid anymore for everything except your flimsy ‘dragons’ claim.

Yes, because nothing makes someone feel like a warrior, Paladin, Shaman, etc. than not being able to see their weapons or shield on their back, and having their weapons materialize out of nowhere everytime they enter combat....

Again, please stop being ridiculous.

[Nightshade711]

You do realize that those are specific cloaks from a specific part of the game that some players might not want to grind through to obtain just so their weapons and shield don't appear on their back, right?

Also you do realize that hiding the weapons, shield, and cloak as a solution seems rather strange when your entire argument is complaining about not seeing weapons, shield, cloaks and other armor on the Dracthyr model.

Those back pieces are literally the easiest things to get. You can even get a handful of them just by preordering/if you had a sub…

Because the weapons are still visible if they’re unsheathed.

Yes, because nothing makes someone feel like a warrior, Paladin, Shaman, etc. than not being able to see their weapons or shield on their back, and having their weapons materialize out of nowhere everytime they enter combat....

Again, please stop being ridiculous.

Shamans literally have transmogs of elemental weapons that materialize out of nowhere when you enter combat that are arguably the most thematic weapons for shamans.

Not to mention that 1h weapons can/will still be sheathed at the hips, but if you played the game you’d know that.

Either way, weapons are still going to be visible through most gameplay. Not that you care about transmog anyways.

[Teriz]

/snip

Again, let me reiterate that your solution to the "issue" of not seeing transmog on a Dracthyr is going out of your way to obtain an item that will make you not able to see transmog on your Dracthyr.

This is a pointless back and forth. Like I said, let us be thankful that Blizzard isn't listening to players like you.

[Nightshade711]

Again, let me reiterate that your solution to the "issue" of not seeing transmog on a Dracthyr is going out of your way to obtain an item that will make you not able to see transmog on your Dracthyr.

Reading comprehension 10/10.

I had very clearly said that those transmogs would be hidden like it would be for those items to avoid clipping.

The rest of the transmog (chest, pants, gloves, helms) won’t have an issue with clipping any more than they do for elf ears, Draenei/Tauren tails, or the undead bits like their spine.

But again you don’t care if transmog hidden so I don’t see your argument here.

[Ielenia]

No need to go over this again, since you've been proven wrong multiple times over.

You haven't disproven Blizzard "multiple times over", considering they were the ones that stated the dracthyr are hybrids, and therefore, by the actual meaning of the word, means they're not dragons.

This is a double standard. Essentially you're saying that its okay for Druids to not show transmog in combat form, but it's a deal breaker for Dracthyr because of "reasons".

It's not "double standards". The druid's alternate forms are non-humanoid (bear, cat, owlkin, tree, bird) and therefore they don't fit the armor models. The dracthyr, on the other hand, the dracthyr's "anorexic salamander" form is still quite humanoid, and therefore the armor models fit (or at least, should fit) without problems. There is no reason why the dracthyr can't be made to show off all their armor instead of teensy-tiny parts.

the Astral Glyph makes your transmog transparent with stars flying around it.

But you can still see it.

I could imagine that for many players, being able to play as a dragon

Which would be awesome if Blizzard ever adds an actual dragon race...

Again, draconic magic INCLUDES the ability to transform into a mortal or into a dragon. Thus when a Dracthyr is in Visage form and turning into a dragon, they are using draconic magic to do so.

Dude, that's not "draconic magic". We have plenty of non-draconic ways of turning into other mortals or into dragons.

In other words, Trolls

We'ee not talking about trolls. Stop trying to derail the subject to trolls.

Nope. I was pointing out that we have a flying magical reptile that breathes fire and you're saying it's not a dragon. You bringing up Emerald Drakes has literally nothing to do with what I said, and nothing more than a whataboutism.

It's not "whataboutism". I'm literally pointing out how your argument disqualifies the green and blue dragonflight dragons from being dragons because they don't breathe fire, which was one of the qualifiers you stipulated. And, again, dracthyr are not dragons. They're hybrids of draconic descent, but not dragons.

[SinR]

The arguing back and forth in this thread is amazing.

/Popcorn

[Teriz]

It's not "double standards". The druid's alternate forms are non-humanoid (bear, cat, owlkin, tree, bird) and therefore they don't fit the armor models. The dracthyr, on the other hand, the dracthyr's "anorexic salamander" form is still quite humanoid, and therefore the armor models fit (or at least, should fit) without problems. There is no reason why the dracthyr can't be made to show off all their armor instead of teensy-tiny parts.

Moonkin are humanoids.

But you can still see it.

Barely.

Which would be awesome if Blizzard ever adds an actual dragon race...

Imagine believing that a magical flying reptile that breathes fire and has the powers of the 5 dragonflights isn't a dragon to you simply because you're a contrarian....

It's pretty sad.

Dude, that's not "draconic magic". We have plenty of non-draconic ways of turning into other mortals or into dragons.

So when Wrathion turns into a mortal or a dragon, he's not using draconic magic?

We'ee not talking about trolls. Stop trying to derail the subject to trolls.

I simply want you to answer a simple question; Are trolls anorexic?

It's not "whataboutism". I'm literally pointing out how your argument disqualifies the green and blue dragonflight dragons from being dragons because they don't breathe fire, which was one of the qualifiers you stipulated.

Yeah, it doesn't, but feel free to continue to move the goalposts into absurdity if you wish.

[Varodoc]

I simply want you to answer a simple question; Are trolls anorexic?

They are certainly unhealthy, given their gross, deformed, hunched posture.

Whether they are considered anorexic or not is a matter up for debate, but clearly there is something wrong in their physique.

[Teriz]

They are certainly unhealthy, given their gross, deformed, hunched posture.

Whether they are considered anorexic or not is a matter up for debate, but clearly there is something wrong in their physique.

C'mon, this should be fairly easy to answer;

Are trolls anorexic due to how skinny they are?

Dracthyr are quite beefier in comparison;

[Varodoc]

C'mon, this should be fairly easy to answer;

Are trolls anorexic due to how skinny they are?

Dracthyr are quite beefier in comparison;

You're not being fair.

For the sake of fairness, you should link the 2014 model, not the 2004 model, so that we can see if anything changes in their muscles in HD style.

And you are ignoring context as per usual. Trolls are trolls. You claim that Dracthyr are dragons (and not dragonkin). In the context of dragons, Dracthyr happen to be noticeably thinner than their peers like Deathwing, Wrathion, and Alexstrasza. Different species, you can't compare a dragon to a troll. Dragons are naturally bulkier than trolls, it means nothing.