New hunter tree bois!!!

[Sondrelk]

I'm still pissed about how fucked up that skill looks... instead of making it a channeled cast where the hunter draws each arrow and shoots it (like 3 shots in 1,5 seconds that hit as hard as the 8, or how many, it does now) they made it look like your hunter has a spasm and it shoots red "dots" like it's using graphics from space invaders.

geez. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

Why are the range animations basically still from the year 2000 the spelleffect changes don't help at all.

It shoots the marked arrows from Legion even. For what reason I cannot figure, but you would think they would have used the wind arrows from the main artifact ability instead, it's a far more fitting ability, and it doesn't make your character looks like he is having a seizure.

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Nah, they just baked it into talents in a slightly worse version.

Honestly it's probably for the best. Until Blizzard fixes MM you will still have the problem of any extra ability being automatically less appealing than a passive one, even if it's far better.

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I wonder whether it would be better to move both Wailing Arrow and this potential Dark Ranger talent into the main hunter tree. Even Survival wouldn't look too out of place with that ability, and it's already shared by both BM and MM.
There isn't really a good reason why you couldn't have a melee spearwielding dark ranger, and with undead pets from SL a BM hunter is just as good a fit for Dark Ranker as MM.

Not sure what to replace the abilities with though.
Also the Dark Ranger ability to change physical to Shadow damage is just hilariously OP. Everyone would be an idiot not to pick it when it's effectively a 15-20% increase in damage to Aimed Shot.

[lMassacre]

Having to switch builds between single and aoe is bothering me a lot. Will it be too difficult to have another tree separate just for aoe?

[Sondrelk]

Having to switch builds between single and aoe is bothering me a lot. Will it be too difficult to have another tree separate just for aoe?

Swapping between both will be trivial in the live version. WoWhead doesn't currently allow you to do so, but the developers confirmed the ability to save builds and swap between them at all locations you can currently swap talents normally. So all you would need to do is make a ST and an AoE build and save them once per major tuning.

[lMassacre]

Swapping between both will be trivial in the live version. WoWhead doesn't currently allow you to do so, but the developers confirmed the ability to save builds and swap between them at all locations you can currently swap talents normally. So all you would need to do is make a ST and an AoE build and save them once per major tuning.

This is precisely the problem. In the current version and player of beastmaster I can currently switch between single and aoe just by switching rotation. Not having aoe when you need it feels weird.

[Fantazma]

Also the Dark Ranger ability to change physical to Shadow damage is just hilariously OP. Everyone would be an idiot not to pick it when it's effectively a 15-20% increase in damage to Aimed Shot.

You're right. I fixed it:



Notes:
As you can see the "Dark Ranger" Talent is in the last place in the last row. It's there on purpose so those who don't want that class fantasy (and the benefits the talent grants) can easily dodge and still be able to choose the "Legacy of the Windrunner" and "Wailing Arrow" talents.

Note that the "Dark Ranger" talent only changes Nature damage to shadow damage (similar to the rogue subtlet's new talent: "Dark Brew").
Also, the speed boost benefit is 14% to perfectly synergize with the Hunter's "Agile Movement" talent which once full grants us 6% speed. Adding "Dark Ranger" with "Agile Movement" we have a perfect 20% speed (like rogues and other classes).

It is worth mentioning that the "Dark Ranger" talent does not make the Hunter MM overpowered by granting 2 additional talents, after all, these two talents replace other 2 similar talents from the Hunter Baseline.

So... the "Dark Ranger" talent is fair and fulfills the role of giving Hunters the full Dark Ranger class fantasy without undermining the choices of other Hunters.

p.s: To make it easier to deploy the talent without having to juggle the points allotted for this area of ​​the talent tree, the "Wainling Arrow" talent has been transformed into a 3-rank talent.

Personal Note: Check this out... I'm not asking for an entire class of Dark Rangers and not an entire spec just for Dark Rangers. Well, the devs just need to change 1 single talent in the MM tree and (added to the recent DR skins they gave us) the Dark Rangers enthusiastic Hunter would finally have everything to play with this class fantasy.

[Sondrelk]

This is precisely the problem. In the current version and player of beastmaster I can currently switch between single and aoe just by switching rotation. Not having aoe when you need it feels weird.

Then make a balanced build and use that to play the game. It's honestly no different from now with the exception that you can actively avoid AoE abilities to make ST even better and vice versa.

[KrayZ33]

This is precisely the problem. In the current version and player of beastmaster I can currently switch between single and aoe just by switching rotation. Not having aoe when you need it feels weird.

Then spec in a way so that you always have AoE?
I mean... with the 2 charge KC and the barbed shot = resets KC in the tree's "aoe" direction that also allows KC to cleave, it's probably looking like that will be the allround build anyway.

I don't think you'll go for the ST heavy talents that buff cobra shot and the CD reduce anyway because "Qa'pla, Eredun War Order" exists (hopefully on release as well). At this moment, I wouldn't be surprised if Cobra shot in row-2 is not even going to be picked tbh and people roll with SS or Arcane instead. At least when certain crit levels are achieved.

[Bepples]

Surv essentially turned into MM with Magic Damage before the Legion overhaul. Period. When I switched from MM in Wrath to Surv in MoP, the only thing that changed were the abilities on my bar. My rotation was almost exactly the same. Even the timing. The same thing happened when Tier 18 rolled around in WoD and the 4pc bonus made MM play like it did in Wrath again and made the switch back.

Yeah this is pretty much just entirely you talking out your ass. MM WotLK played nothing like SV MoP or even MM WoD. It's painfully evident you never played them or you've forgotten most of it.

MM and ranged SV were sufficiently distinct. Focusing on long range sniping with physical damage rather than special munitions with magic damage is a meaningful and valuable difference and they both sensibly built on the base class foundation. In contrast, distinction via taking away the ranged weapon is utter nonsense. It's distinction via handicap. When the base class is built around ranged weapons it doesn't work. The fact that the base tree in DF has 0 SV representation and only makes sense for BM and MM, with SV needing to have a fake animation-only crossbow, is proof of this. Next you'll be telling me Assassination is just Subtlety without the shadow attacks so the solution is to remove Stealth from Assassination.

Not to mention it lets Hunters be both Melee and Ranged like Druids and Shaman. This can make a difference when groups need a certain amount of melee or ranged for various mechanics which is why healers are actually considered melee or ranged based on class (e.g. Paladin is Melee healer, Priest is Ranged) so that those mechanics can affect them as well.

This is next to useless for 99% of raid content. Lucky for you one of the rare 1% exceptions is in this tier, but to find the last one before that you have to go all the way back to Gul'dan in Nighthold. Arguing that Survival being melee is good from a pragmatic standpoint is spectacularly out-of-touch given how much Survival's standing in PvE has acutely suffered specifically because it's a melee spec in an otherwise ranged class. How uninformed do you have to be to post something like this?

[Eapoe]

Yeah this is pretty much just entirely you talking out your ass. MM WotLK played nothing like SV MoP or even MM WoD. It's painfully evident you never played them or you've forgotten most of it.

MM and ranged SV were sufficiently distinct. Focusing on long range sniping with physical damage rather than special munitions with magic damage is a meaningful and valuable difference and they both sensibly built on the base class foundation. In contrast, distinction via taking away the ranged weapon is utter nonsense. It's distinction via handicap. When the base class is built around ranged weapons it doesn't work. The fact that the base tree in DF has 0 SV representation and only makes sense for BM and MM, with SV needing to have a fake animation-only crossbow, is proof of this. Next you'll be telling me Assassination is just Subtlety without the shadow attacks so the solution is to remove Stealth from Assassination.



This is next to useless for 99% of raid content. Lucky for you one of the rare 1% exceptions is in this tier, but to find the last one before that you have to go all the way back to Gul'dan in Nighthold. Arguing that Survival being melee is good from a pragmatic standpoint is spectacularly out-of-touch given how much Survival's standing in PvE has acutely suffered specifically because it's a melee spec in an otherwise ranged class. How uninformed do you have to be to post something like this?

Their post is pretty spot on. When you swapped specs, all that changed was the name and appearance of the abilities. The main rotation between the specs was almost identical between all 3 specs. The rotation stayed the same, but the names/appearances changed. The fact that the abilities caused explosions vs just looking like a light colored spell affect leaving your bow doesn’t change that the specs played too similarly.
You could play BM, swap to MM, then swap to SV, and know exactly how to play them all as long as you know how to play 1. The only difference is one might have an extra CD (Bestial Wrath), or might have an extra ability (Black Arrow) that you put in a spot on the rotation.
Also, every spec utilized magic damage and physical damage. They did have different perceived themes, but the play styles were 95% identical.

[paxen]

Nooo, Mad Bombardier is gone :'(

Here's a quick attempt at an M+ surv build that focuses on wildfire bomb and also takes Fury of the Eagle - the two coolest abilities surv has had.

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight...LZcAUxDwEE9QBA

[Jin]

Having to switch builds between single and aoe is bothering me a lot. Will it be too difficult to have another tree separate just for aoe?

This is my fear too, i see a lot of extra skills on my bar with these talents, at first you might think its fun to toy with, but if you got quick combat and you need to swap between multi and st in a fight constantly, the amount of new buttons to be pressed will be insane!

Edit, like GW2 has bar swapping when swapping weps, if you could do this in WoW between ST and MT it would be less of a issue.

[Pauper]

Also suprised Mad bombardier did not make the cut... Ah well we have to see what changes from here till release. I don't know how "set in stone" blizz are with the talents, are they willing to do big changes like "get rid of X and replace with Y" or small changes like the Lunge talent being changed to one point for 6 yards for example.

[Asrialol]

This is precisely the problem. In the current version and player of beastmaster I can currently switch between single and aoe just by switching rotation. Not having aoe when you need it feels weird.

This must be a mistake, BM doesn't have any aoe atm.

[schwank05]

Whenever the whole "Blizzard just respectfully disagrees" line gets trotted out it's always a giant red flag that Blizzard is making a hilariously bad decision. This was the talking point for covenants on SL launch. When Blizzard disagrees with players and doubles down on a decision 99% of the time (probably 100% tbh) they are wrong and the decision is bad. Melee Survival included.

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Why are you so obsessed with what ultimately amounts to a handicap Hunter? It's like demanding a Rogue spec without Stealth.

I play Melee, this spec is the most fun for me to play. And I play Combat Rogue so no real need for stealth.

[Eosia]

This must be a mistake, BM doesn't have any aoe atm.

Multi-Shot and Beast Cleave don't count? /s

[Basilmoyh]

[1] Kill Shot at level 10? IMO, should swap Serpent Sting and Kill Shot. Make MM take/use Serpent Sting. You can always opt out of Serpent Sting by taking Serpentstalkers

[2] The bottom section the shared hunter tree is very cluttered, like where everything the didn't have a home, has crash landed there.

[3] BM tree looks servicable. The only obvious issue imo, is Barbed Wrath should be where Scent of Blood is.

[4] MM tree, imo, Rapid Fire, which is poor theme for Bow users (because the animation looks stupid), but a great theme for gun users (because of the meaty machine gun sound effects), the tree hits a wall at Volley. The awkward moment when the gunner open a mystical cloud and arrows magically fall from the sky. Swap Volley and Serpentstalkers.

[5] MM tree ending with Double Tap, seems meh. Move Double Tap to Lone Wolf, Lone Wolf to Deathblow to Double Tap, and buff Deathblow through the roof.

[6] The SV tree is, well, I'll give them that credit for some ideas, but it really wants to eat your points. Want Wildfire Infusion? That'll be 7 points, please. Want to increase Wildfire Bomb damage? That'll be 5 points, please. Want to increase Mongoose Bite damage? That'll be 5 points, please. Want to increase Kill Command damage? That'll be 5 points, please. Want Harpoon? That'll be 4 points please.

[Sondrelk]

[1] Kill Shot at level 10? IMO, should swap Serpent Sting and Kill Shot. Make MM take/use Serpent Sting. You can always opt out of Serpent Sting by taking Serpentstalkers

[2] The bottom section the shared hunter tree is very cluttered, like where everything the didn't have a home, has crash landed there.

[3] BM tree looks servicable. The only obvious issue imo, is Barbed Wrath should be where Scent of Blood is.

[4] MM tree, imo, Rapid Fire, which is poor theme for Bow users (because the animation looks stupid), but a great theme for gun users (because of the meaty machine gun sound effects), the tree hits a wall at Volley. The awkward moment when the gunner open a mystical cloud and arrows magically fall from the sky. Swap Volley and Serpentstalkers.

[5] MM tree ending with Double Tap, seems meh. Move Double Tap to Lone Wolf, Lone Wolf to Deathblow to Double Tap, and buff Deathblow through the roof.

[6] The SV tree is, well, I'll give them that credit for some ideas, but it really wants to eat your points. Want Wildfire Infusion? That'll be 7 points, please. Want to increase Wildfire Bomb damage? That'll be 5 points, please. Want to increase Mongoose Bite damage? That'll be 5 points, please. Want to increase Kill Command damage? That'll be 5 points, please. Want Harpoon? That'll be 4 points please.

I really don't want MM to have to keep Serpent Sting. Even with Serpenstalkers making upkeep trivial there is just something so dumb about having a poison ability in a spec mostly about physical damage and big hitting abilities. At least in that case reskin it to a physical damage bleed to preserve the spec fantasy.

[Rucati]

Yeah I'm not sold on this. The SV tree looks like utter garbage, MM and BM are fine I guess but nothing very special. But then look at the Rogue trees, they're lightyears ahead and they have less 3 point nodes so they'll be able to get way more out of their trees.

I've basically exclusively played Survival on my Hunter for all of BFA and SL, the spec is super fun and unique, but man I have very little interest playing it with these talent choices. It's just gonna be so underwhelming compared to everything else unless it's massively overtuned. There's just too much you're missing out on. A decent Sub Rogue build gets you 26 unique talents for 30 points, all of which are pretty good and can change your gameplay, SV Hunter gets 17 unique talents in a decent build. That's just very very unfun, certainly hope these talents get changed significantly before launch.

I know the talent system is a big selling point of the expansion, but I really hope they give it up going into 11.0 and go back to the current system, it's so much better than this trash 2% crit per point shit that just feels horrible and uninspired.

[Basilmoyh]

I really don't want MM to have to keep Serpent Sting. Even with Serpenstalkers making upkeep trivial there is just something so dumb about having a poison ability in a spec mostly about physical damage and big hitting abilities. At least in that case reskin it to a physical damage bleed to preserve the spec fantasy.

I can understand that sentiment. But then I think about all these great games I've played (Mass Effect 1, X-Com, NWN, Breath of the Wild, Divinity Original Sin) and they all use various ammunition. And I think we're missing out.

[Eosia]

I know the talent system is a big selling point of the expansion, but I really hope they give it up going into 11.0 and go back to the current system, it's so much better than this trash 2% crit per point shit that just feels horrible and uninspired.

The irony is this is what a good chunk of the old trees were.