Should raids be smaller?

[Progenitor Aquarius]

They could do them flexible from 1 to 20 people. I would enjoy then blast the bosses solo. Same as Torghast, where it was actually fun.

[Kaykay]

Hard 10 man raids were the most enjoyable content in the game, now all we got is m+.

mythic raiding today is more about being able to play 80 hours a week and having a full roster that doesnt have RL commitments.

[mrgreenthump]

If the choice was 10-13 bosses every 6 months or 6 every 3 months, I'd take the later one. Ideally it'd be 8 bosses every 3 months.

[Synapse12]

lmaaao people advocating for even less content

now I've seen everything

Less content? What? If you ask me, 5 raids with 2 bosses is way more content than one raid with 10

[A Chozo]

Less content? What? If you ask me, 5 raids with 2 bosses is way more content than one raid with 10

Knowing Blizzard you would get 2 bosses this week, then 2 more bosses next month, etc. They would timegate the hell out of this. Sepulcher is a full 11 boss piece and they managed to timegate it.

[kamuimac]

Over the past few expansions, PuG raiding even at the Heroic level seemingly has increased in volume at a significant level. Maybe it is unstable schedules of people who have grown older, maybe it is a younger demographic more used to plug and play gaming but I think this change is observable.

One issue I see with PuG raiding is duration. Most guilds will not clear a raid in a single run unless deep in farm. Raiding takes time and Blizzard mostly releases raids with 8+ raid bosses. In a PuG environment fully clearing a raid in a single run can be tough. Many people start their PuG raids when they will have ample time and try to refill as people leave which creates a poor experience for everyone involved. Trying to arrange a second run during the lockout often fails.

I think there are two things that would clearly help here. First is to expand the skip system. While a few raids offer multiple skip points in a raid, cutting it in chunks that are reasonably easy to clear in a single run and thus letting people organize Raid PuGs that effectively run wings instead of the entire raid, most often the skip is singular and drops you on the penultimate boss which doesn't really help much with splitting the raid (remains very useful to progress on the hardest boss and even more so later in the expac or in the future when you do mount runs).

But the better option would be to change the design. I personally love raid tiers that feature two or more raids. You get to choose where you want to progress any given week, you have thematically different environments and encounters which makes the repetition of the raids over 6+ months less tiresome. And while encounters do have decent variety in mechanics, thematically the devs are often forced to repeat concepts and create bosses with no links to lore just to fill the raid. With smaller raids you could focus on the important characters of a storyline instead of featuring multiple filler. Should Blizzard considering changing the standard to 2-3 raids of 4-6 bosses instead?

yes . perfect raid would have 6-7 bosses with a skip achievable after first 3-4 .

[Cheezits]

I think people in general are caring less about raiding, so smaller raids to focus on developing alternative content would be nice.

7 boss max sounds good as people are saying.

[enigma77]

So, Naxxramas?

Naxxramas imo is still the coolest raid they've ever done. The place is huge and epic.

And it has this really cool WC3 scourge vibe.

[Synapse12]

Knowing Blizzard you would get 2 bosses this week, then 2 more bosses next month, etc. They would timegate the hell out of this. Sepulcher is a full 11 boss piece and they managed to timegate it.

Sounds like a good model. Were you trying to make this sound bad?

[A Chozo]

Sounds like a good model.

And then everyone wonders why Blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase.

[Kumorii]

Would probably prefer smaller raids with decreased time between release.
Reclearing becomes less of a chore. Works better for guilds that raids less hours in a week as well.

[Synapse12]

And then everyone wonders why Blizzard doesn't listen to the playerbase.

What are you talking about? A new raid every month for the entirety of the expansion? Why tf wouldn’t you want that.

[ceall]

Nah, we don't need smaller raids. 10-12 bosses is absolutely fine.
What we need is the lfr separation of wings for the PuG community (normal and heroic mode). However, in order to be able to access wing 3 for example, you would first have to complete wing 1 and 2 (in order) at least once for any given difficulty level.

For mythic raiding, you'll always be put in front of the first boss, however, you will be able to skip wings by clearing them at least 3 times. If using the skip, the skipped bosses will count as "defeated", however you can still go back to boss 2 after killing boss 8 for example.

[Maell]

8-10 bosses per patch/season is good. Maybe some 1 boss raids sprinkled in would be good as well.

Most important is remove all the trash, there is no point in having trash in raids today.

[Nalam the Venom]

No need for smaller.

Just easier.

Molten core is a good baseline

[Maell]

No need for smaller.

Just easier.

Molten core is a good baseline

So.. you want raids to be filled with trash with a few slightly harder than trash mobs. Cool.

[Nalam the Venom]

So.. you want raids to be filled with trash with a few slightly harder than trash mobs. Cool.

Happy you agree

[Maell]

Happy you agree

Nah.. as I said above i don't like trash in raids.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Yes... more Vault of Archavon/Gruul's Lair/Terrace of Endless Spring designed raids please.


But no.

[deenman]

Naxxramas imo is still the coolest raid they've ever done. The place is huge and epic.

And it has this really cool WC3 scourge vibe.

naxx felt rly bland for me lol,ulduar is the gold standard for design