The Boys

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

It's not really splitting hairs the two concepts are pretty drastically different.

Not really... you said yourself that power corrupts. V is what gives the power. I'm just tracing it back one more step than you are.

[Ophenia]

Maeve is powerless, Kumiko's powers were temporary (Or did temp V give her her powers back permanently, I may have missed that detail if it was said)

Kimiko has taken the Regular V, so her powers are back indefinitely. Which also means - injecting the Regular V into Maeve could theoretically power her back up if that's needed for the plot.

Sigh..I am not worried about "who is going after whom". Problem is that "Boys" have been going after homelander for 3 seasons with zero result and a conclusion that they simply can't take him down (thank you stupid plot lines). So what they could possibly try in season 4th? Make homelander turn good? Repent? A new duper weapon that will totally kill homie boy? Story is going nowhere. Whole new "VP" villain is just nonsense.

Non-zero chance that Ryan is actually the only weapon capable of defeating Homelander, with Soldier Boy being out of the picture.

My personal opinion is, she can absolutely kill Homelander. But she doesn't because he is an asset to her political goals. She runs on the anti-supe platform, and homelander basically provides a constant stream of material for her to use to push her agenda.

Can she though ? If Homelander felt she was a threat to him, he would have eradicated her immediately. Neuman was basically useless to him, but he was key for her political plans, so he has an advantage here.
Also, if Neuman could kill Homelander with her power, The Boys would have tried to get her on their side instead of looking for a hypothetical weapon somewhere in Russia.

But anyway, Neuman will pretty much be a non-issue in S04, unless they invent some plot armor. She needs to see what she wants to pop, so Starlight can blind her and she's useless.

Hughie helped her by increasing the power, and gave a gratified smile when it worked. He was torn between using the Temp-V, or using a different way to save her that didn't cost him his humanity, and life.

Using the Temp V would have allowed Hughie to defeat Homelander by teleporting him right in front of Soldier Boy though. So in the long run, bad choice, especially with how weak the "Temp V's fifth dose lethality" was shown to be, finally.

[Big Thanks]

The adoptive father of Mother's Milk daughter.....Todd....is probably the most hated character now (>_<)
He is the one who said "fuck yeah" when Homelander killed that one person in front of everyone.
Im pretty sure he will have some kind of Arc next season.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The concept of a chemical changing ones personality fundamentally due to physical chemical changes in their body

I'm not saying "The V produces a chemical that changes their brain makeup...turning them into an asshole"

I'm saying "V gives them powers. Powers make them an asshole"

[Big Thanks]

So they were already assholes to begin with and the V (the powers more specifically) just act as enablers to them. That I can agree with

IMO

The whole point of the entire show is:

Humans = shit

"What if humans had superpowers? Actual shitty humans"

To make the "V" make people assholes would destroy the whole point of the show...i think.

[Endus]

oh ok, I missed that point lol. Thanks. So couldn't they just save Butcher by turning him into a perma supe?

This presumes Butcher wants saving. I think it's pretty clear he wants to die.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This presumes Butcher wants saving. I think it's pretty clear he wants to die.

He'd rather die than be a full-time supes in any case.

[Ophenia]

oh ok, I missed that point lol. Thanks. So couldn't they just save Butcher by turning him into a perma supe?

Pretty sure that’ll be an option. Would be pretty hypocritical from Butcher to refuse due to his hatred of supes now that he boosted himself 5 times.

But yeah I’m pretty sure Hughie will be the one to insist

But then who knows. Maybe even with the Regular V, Super Butcher would still die from the tumor. Not sure his power set includes regeneration/healing

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So they were already assholes to begin with and the V (the powers more specifically) just act as enablers to them. That I can agree with

Well, we don't actually know if they would be assholes regardless...since they were given V as children (or in Homelander's case, actually test-tube babies). But growing up with those kind of powers made it clear to most of them that they can do whatever they want and if they go too far, Vought will cover it up for them. "Power Corrupts" is tested on several different levels here...Social Power, Political Power, Financial Power, Superpowers, etc.

[Mehrunes]

The finale kinda led to the show starting to eat its own tail. Other than Neumann progressing her goals despite being discovered for what she really is by the Boys right at the start and Homelander's shit becoming somewhat public (yet no one really caring about it anyway), what was really achieved this season? Soldier Boy got freed, killed some new heroes no one cared about before only to get back on ice again. A-Train killed a guy no one knew about before to only not survive what would have been a great end to his arch of self-realization and contrition but also get on track to regain his powers that ended his whole African hero spiel in this season. The Deep went back to square one. Noir had all that development only to be unceremoniously killed by Homelander. And Meave survived a fall from a skyscraper even though Soldier Boy's explosion should have depowered her instantly, as shown by Kimiko's case. And since the creators already confirmed she'll be back in the next season, chances are the whole thing about her getting depowered won't matter for squat either.

But, worst of all, Butcher fucked up the chance to kill Homelander, which is all he ever wanted, because of "his wife's kid" (and sorry to some of the posters here, but that's not how a stepfather refers to their stepchild). All because of his sacred promise. Never mind that he also made a promise to Mallory. Or that removing supes is his number one conviction. Nope. "His wife's kid" is all that mattered after all. So now Homelander still isn't dead and the next season will once again revolve around the Boys trying to find yet another way to kill him. And Butcher sacrificing his convictions resulted in absolute fuck all, because Ryan is now set up on the path to be a psycho like his father, leading to yet another "supe character that will be popular with the public only to be super messed up in secret", which is kinda overdone by this show by now.

Another thing that bothers me is how contrived the sides in the final battle seemed to be.

Soldier Boy, who has perhaps the best moment in this weak finale monologuing about his father, is against Homelander because he immediately just falls into the same pattern as his father? He's had how many decades to think about how he'd raise a son differently, and then immediately decides to arbitrarily kill the son he never had because he's "a pussy"?

I think that's actually a big part of Soldier Boy's moment of self-awareness in this episode. First of all, it's kinda too late to be a proper father to a petulant manchild that's already 41 years old. The damage to Homelander has already been done and there's no fixing that fuck up. And it's not that Soldier Boy that fell to the same pattern as his father, it's that Homelander fell to the same pattern as Soldier Boy of being a pitiful twat that's getting high on power that was handed to him all the while they secretly crave approval they always lacked. Like, in Soldier Boy's case, pretending that he was the great hero of WWII (when in actuality he came to the Normandy beach days after the D-Day for a photo op) to the point he almost believed it himself.

The important part in that exchange isn't Soldier Boy calling Homelander a pussy. It's Homelander saying that he's the same as Soldier Boy and Soldier Boy agreeing with him, only to call him a disappointment immediately afterwards. I.e. he also considered himself to be a disappointment. I.e. deep down he agreed with his own father and him telling that story to Butcher was him coming to terms with it.

Other than that, I agree with your overall take on the finale.

[cubby]

Starlight is the exception that proves the rule.

That's not really an argument. Hughie is another example.

That's splitting the hair really thin. V gives people the super powers.

The point is "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Homelander is the example of "absolute power"... but pretty much everyone else that has been given V is corrupt.

Which has nothing to do with V. It's just absolute power bringing out the assholes.

- - - Updated - - -

They could technically give Maeve a dose of blue V like they did Kimiko Miyashiro / The Female to her powers back.

I was thinking about that as well. Maeve is on record saying her powers are a curse (at least I'm almost sure she said something of the sort), so her getting them back would take a trick, or her "having" to because she was one of the handful of people who stands a chance against Homelander.

We shall see though.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, that's splitting the hair really thin. "It's not the V that corrupts... its the power". The V is what gives them the power.

You just showed yourself to be wrong. It's not V at all - it's the power V brings. Power could come from something else, and that "something else" would also bring out their assholeness.

So V does not bring out the asshole, the power does. Starlight and Hughie and others who are not assholes prove that.

[Endus]

I was thinking about that as well. Maeve is on record saying her powers are a curse (at least I'm almost sure she said something of the sort), so her getting them back would take a trick, or her "having" to because she was one of the handful of people who stands a chance against Homelander.

We shall see though.

Kimiko wanted her powers back. I don't see that Maeve would. She's off the board and she can live her life in peace.

Also, for everyone thinking perma-V would save Butcher; it did fuck-all to fix A-Train's heart. Unless healing's a superpower you get (like with Kimiko), you're shit outta luck. And we didn't see Butcher get any healing.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That's not really an argument. Hughie is another example.

Hughie doesn't have powers. He used Temp V a couple of times. And even so, it could be argued that using Temp V was bringing out an ugly side of Hughie.

Another way of looking at it is to take what Dr. Erskine said to Steve Rogers:



Homelander, A-Train, The Deep...they've always had power.

Hughie, on the other hand, has lived his entire life without power. When he does get limited access to power...he still remembers what it is like to not have power. But he's no Steve Rogers. Erskine would never chose Hughie.

You just showed yourself to be wrong. It's not V at all - it's the power V brings. Power could come from something else, and that "something else" would also bring out their assholeness.

In this case, the power doesn't come from "somewhere else". It comes from the V.

Yeah, if they got their powers from a radioactive spider or cosmic rays...they would still be assholes. But, they didn't. They got it from the V. In this universe, V is the only way anyone gets powers.

So yeah, you're splitting hairs. As i've already said, I'm just tracing the power back to the source. Which, again, is V.

To be clear, When I say "V makes them assholes" and you say "Power makes them assholes"...we're essentially saying the same thing.

So V does not bring out the asshole, the power does. Starlight and Hughie and others who are not assholes prove that.

Actually no, it doesn't...because you're still saying that it's the power that corrupts and the power didn't corrupt those specific people.

Which, as I already said, makes them an exception to the rule. Which is pretty constant, even in universes without quite as bleak an outlook regarding superpowers. Marvel and DC both have more villains than they do heroes. More people choose to use power for their own gain than to help others.

[Orwell7]

As I see, the last episode was a co-product of:
Logan Ritchey
David Reed
Sarah Boyd

just look them up.
What a shitshow, these names should be removed from the entertainment industry, just like those who gave us game of thrones season 8.

Just.. get the fuck out. You have no sense of what makes a show GOOD. How the original writers wanted. Nope, they just HAVE TO KNOW BETTER.
And here we have this season finale.

Pathetic! I swear I could hear some audience laughing in the background ala "friends".

Made a promise to my wife bruhhhh, okay, you made a shitload of promises, want to be a good father to cure your son from superpowers?
USE SOLDIER BOY "OI", what a dumbass!

I absolutely wanted this to be the epitome of the season, them figuring out that SB could erase powers.
But nooo, that wink with homelander... ARCH enemies or not? come on I'm so fed up with another show "canceled" by this PC culture...

[eschatological]

Kimiko wanted her powers back. I don't see that Maeve would. She's off the board and she can live her life in peace.

Also, for everyone thinking perma-V would save Butcher; it did fuck-all to fix A-Train's heart. Unless healing's a superpower you get (like with Kimiko), you're shit outta luck. And we didn't see Butcher get any healing.

I guarantee you Maeve will be suped up again with V, or at the very least be faced with that choice and probably dying if she doesn't take it.

Also, the side effects of V on A-Train happened because he was already suped up. It's basically overdosing. If Compound V can restore lost powers a la Kimiko, I'm sure it'll smooth the transition Stormfront's lab was trying to perfect, where they were testing giving V to adults, to make a stable transition to permanent supes. I imagine it's the ideal solution from Vought's perspective - give them Temp V to figure out their powers, and if they're desirable, make them permanent. IE, when Temp V gives Love Sausage a giant sentient dick, maybe you just don't give him the permanent one afterwards.

I fully expect Hughie to force Butcher to take V to save his life, maybe as Butcher is dying so he can't physically resist. And with Kimiko's revelation, I have to wonder if the rest of the Boys are going to reconsider being supes too - as long as they're good people, it shouldn't matter. That's what Frenchie and MM's convo is about in the finale.

[cubby]

To be clear, When I say "V makes them assholes" and you say "Power makes them assholes"...we're essentially saying the same thing.

I was wondering if we were walking down that path. Agreed - power has made those people assholes, and in The Boys case, it's V that gives them the power.

[PACOX]

side note, is the cartoon series worth watching? Does it have anything to do with the show or is it separate?

[jonnysensible]

side note, is the cartoon series worth watching? Does it have anything to do with the show or is it separate?

thought it was okay. its like that star wars anime thing a different director doing a different story and style every ep.

[Ivanstone]

Which, as I already said, makes them an exception to the rule. Which is pretty constant, even in universes without quite as bleak an outlook regarding superpowers. Marvel and DC both have more villains than they do heroes. More people choose to use power for their own gain than to help others.

The problem with the idea of "power corrupts" is that it assumes that it corrupts. Alternatively it could be that already corrupt people just want more power and you didn't notice how shitty they were until they got it. Butcher is an already corrupt person who wants more power so he can achieve his goals. Homelander was raised as a corrupt person. Hughie doesn't come across as a corrupt person but is instead a desperate person.

[Endus]

The problem with the idea of "power corrupts" is that it assumes that it corrupts. Alternatively it could be that already corrupt people just want more power and you didn't notice how shitty they were until they got it. Butcher is an already corrupt person who wants more power so he can achieve his goals. Homelander was raised as a corrupt person. Hughie doesn't come across as a corrupt person but is instead a desperate person.

Yeah, I've never found much value to the idea that power corrupts.

Power reveals. It gives you the capacity to do what you've always wanted to do, without fear of repercussions. It doesn't change you, it frees you. And when you're a bad person at heart, that's what's getting freed.