Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[ExiHext]

I have him on ignore since if I interact with him I will invariably get infracted. The fact that he is . . . well what he is doesn't mean we should blame the Void elves or Alleria.

Take my response to him as a joke. Obviously didn't mean it like that.
On the other hand he takes WC1 horde as an example. I'd argue WC1 horde isn't current horde.

[Xilurm]

This part of lore is very problematic. Since this was written by misogynist writers who no longer work for Blizzard, I hope this gets retconned. We don't need this.

No it wasn't. What?

Also please for the love god stop with this shit argument. Murder is also bad yet it happens all the time in video games and movies.

Those Orcs back then were evil. They were portrayed as evil. It's just that simple.

[Makorus]

Gorfax very much is part of the leadership structure of the Horde, confirmed in game and was part of the clan at the very least as early as TBC during the enslavement of the Netherwing and certainly during Cata and MoP with the enslavement of various protodrakes.

And given the capital city is named Orgrimmar and everything happened with Orgrim's enthusiastic approval I don't know what to tell you. It's like if Germans had renamed Bonn into Adolfsburg after WWII . . .

I mean, while it is questionable in a way, comparing breaking and raping normal dragons and subjugating Protodrakes is a completely different story, because Protodrakes are not as intelligent or sentient as the actual dragonflights or even Stormdrakes.

What's next, you gonna chastise the trolls for taming raptors?

[Nymrohd]

Take my response to him as a joke. Obviously didn't mean it like that.
On the other hand he takes WC1 horde as an example. I'd argue WC1 horde isn't current horde.

Sure it is not. But in no way has the current Horde denounced any of the attrocities committed by the WC1 Horde. They have denounced the demonic influence but they celebrate monstrous people who committed every war crime in existence. They celebrate Grom and Orgrim in particular and Orgrim was the one who gave Zuluhed approval for what he did in Grim Batol and by the Chronicle "No one was more pleased" than him for the Dragonmaw's success.

Again I am not saying this should mean Alexstrasza should roast every orc she sees. She apparently has the strength to work through the trauma and good for her, that's empowering. Forgiveness is farthest from forgeting.

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I mean, while it is questionable in a way, comparing breaking and raping normal dragons and subjugating Protodrakes is a completely different story, because Protodrakes are not as intelligent or sentient as the actual dragonflights or even Stormdrakes.

What's next, you gonna chastise the trolls for taming raptors?

The Nether dragons are certainly intelligent. As are Black Dragons (they enslave some in Twilight Higlands).

And really are we discussing the Horde's attitude towards slavery of intelligent creatures? They still do it broadly and it is an accepted part of at least orc society.

[draugril]

The Nether dragons are certainly intelligent.

Those Dragonmaw aren't allied with the Horde.

[Wonderment2]

I highly doubt that Alexstrasza the Lifebinder would be racist lol. She already forgave the Horde during the Warcries novel. And none of the current leaders aswell as most of our characters weren't even part of the Horde when that happened.

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What soulless person wouldn't name their hunter pet??

I didn't say she'd be racist?

I said inviting a group that organised your rape to your home is probably awkward


Edit: bloody hell I really didn't mean to set this off.

[Nymrohd]

Those Dragonmaw aren't allied with the Horde.

Zaela took over the clan from Mor'ghor in Cataclysm and Mor'ghor WAS the one enslaving the Nether flight together with Zuluhed. It's the same clan and the same people just with a couple changes of leadership. She did not oppose Mor'ghor on principle, she opposed him because she thought they had a better chance with the Horde.

And again, if people actually bother to read my posts, firstly Alex can come to terms with what happened and still invite the Horde because she needs their strength there and secondly, while it is clearly not as problematic as committing the crimes yourself, if you celebrate your forefathers who committed such crimes, you are clearly accepting their actions.

[Wonderment2]

I hope we get a Dragonmaw "redemption" story based on the one short story where the Dragonmaw orc hatches a cloud serpent

[Nymrohd]

I hope we get a Dragonmaw "redemption" story based on the one short story where the Dragonmaw orc hatches a cloud serpent

That would actually be interesting (and a great counterpoint to whatever fucked up shit Liadrin's foster daughter ends up doing). Bring that character in and reframe the narrative.

[horizon nowhere]

You don't seem to know roid elf fanboy...perhaps then you would understand my intention.

Should I even ask what a roid elf is? Hahaha

[Varodoc]

No it wasn't. What?

Also please for the love god stop with this shit argument. Murder is also bad yet it happens all the time in video games and movies.

Those Orcs back then were evil. They were portrayed as evil. It's just that simple.

Orcs in WoW are also evil and vile creatures. Look at the Burning of Teldrassil which, by the way, was not a big problem for any Horde member except Saurfang. Even Baine continued to shill for the Lich Queen until the Lich Queen decided to mind-control Derek Proudmoore.

Waging war on your neighbours, slaughtering an entire kingdom with fire, remaining loyal to the perpetuator of such an act, how would you define such people?

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Should I even ask what a roid elf is? Hahaha

He tried to argue that Void elves are comparable to irl junkies, even though Void elves got that power accidentally and, anyway, that power makes them supernatural beings who wield Cosmic energy which also allows for teleportation. This, frankly, seems more useful than any drug could ever be.

[Lady Atia]

They are still a major orc clan and part of the Horde and their entire culture is based on enslaving powerful creatures and since they came to Azeroth, dragons. The Horde has in no way censured them for their actions just as the Horde has never really admitted any fault for any of their actions at any time.
Look, Alex is a forgiving creature, probably mostly since she knows that without the demon chain if any orc tried to get uppity with her, they'd be bbq. It's in the past, the Horde is a powerful faction and it would be insane to discount them as allies. But the idea that rape, forced impregnation, torture of her and her consort and enslavement of her children is just water under the bridge is ludicrous. The story writers are ludicrous themselves so who cares at this point. But you can forgive without forgetting.

Going with your logic we should condemn all germans, or in recent times all russians, right?

No one says they should forget about it, but hating people who just happen to be from the same nation is bullshit.

[Trumpcat]

Seriously? Ofc it's idle state. It's a player just standing still to take a screenshot?

Do you have information on whether or not the new UI informs you of your combat effects adequately?

Going with your logic we should condemn all germans, or in recent times all russians, right?

No one says they should forget about it, but hating people who just happen to be from the same nation is bullshit.

It is quite a lot different when you're dealing with a "warrior culture" for which "war is a way of life" and in which "there are no civilians" and which have periodically only been appeased by getting involved in murderous wars. As lastly confirmed by Sylvanas easily manipulating the Orcs want for conflict to start the war.

[Nymrohd]

Do you have information on whether or not the new UI informs you of your combat effects adequately?

No but neither do you.

It really seems like you are trying to condemn the new UI for being poor based on . . . nothing. So complaining just to complain.

[Catastrophy349]

Anyone have “more leaked images” on their Bingo card for today?

[Nymrohd]

Going with your logic we should condemn all germans, or in recent times all russians, right?

No one says they should forget about it, but hating people who just happen to be from the same nation is bullshit.

Eh the difference very much is that Germans do acknowledge what they did. Very much so. The actions of your forefathers do not define you but if they were horrible you are still expected to condemn them instead of celebrating them.
What is your argument even? Do you have one? I made a clear case about the orcs. They celebrate the memories of past warchiefs whose actions were monstrous. They don't just happen to be from the same nation. We hate modern Nazis even though modern Nazis have not committed any genocide because they embrace the ideology that caused it. The orcs do the same. And actually have caused a genocide as well with the modern Horde so really again, what is your argument???

[Makorus]

Do you have information on whether or not the new UI informs you of your combat effects adequately?


It is quite a lot different when you're dealing with a "warrior culture" for which "war is a way of life" and in which "there are no civilians" and which have periodically only been appeased by getting involved in murderous wars. As lastly confirmed by Sylvanas easily manipulating the Orcs want for conflict to start the war.

Do you have information that it doesn't?

lmao, it's a really stupid thing to bitch over when literally all we have seen was an arrow next to a buff bar.

[Nymrohd]

Anyone have “more leaked images” on their Bingo card for today?

Honestly I am not sure what to think about whoever leaked those during the NDA. On one hand the right thing would be for them to be found and at the very least banned from any future Blizzard (or even MS) press event (if not held in breach which may include fines or more). On the other hand, maybe Blizzard wanted things leaked to keep the hype up? And it's not like the leaker profited from the leak since they did not get any traffic from it. Still feels unfair to all the people who also have access to this information and are respecting their contracts.

So no, I don't want more leaked images because that may well mean that Blizzard will be more constrained in future press events and we end up getting less information instead.

[horizon nowhere]

Uh oh *typing intensifies*

[Wonderment2]

Going with your logic we should condemn all germans, or in recent times all russians, right?

No one says they should forget about it, but hating people who just happen to be from the same nation is bullshit.

If the Germans leading party still called itself the nationalist socialist, still used Nazi imagery and idealised Nazi war criminals.

Yes I think it would be fine if Jewish , queer, Slavs and Romai peoples didn't want to deal with Germans.

The Horde still calls itself the Horde, uses the same imagery and venerates horde leaders of the Second War....