Dracthyr Buffness

[A Chozo]

Blizzard taking a perfect fine idea from the community and making garbage

People asked for buffy options

1 - the community didn't come up with the idea of Dragonborn, D&D is old as fuck and crocodile people are historically ancient;

2 - No one asked for buffy new races, everyone wants more slender races. WoW is incessantly mocked because every male character is comically ripped, which is why everyone is a fucking elf.

Blizzard just listened to the chorus and made a Ranged Class and a Slender New Race. We all wanted them to start listening to their playerbase. They finally, for once, fucking did, and you wanna ruin it because of your desire for a bara lizard.

It's literally on your signature. They only had to listen. Well, now they did, so stop being triggered and learn to take the L.

[Teriz]

That's factually wrong. I asked for it.

https://blizzardwatch.com/2022/03/11...ent-5785857658

I didn't think it was going to happen but I wanted it. This is another example of you conflating yourself with the whole community.

Yep, I wanted it too;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-Concept-2022

He's just spouting nonsense.

[Rageonit]

The only problem I see here is that while it looks better, it looks more like another class. That would be the way I would want my Dracthyr to look if it could be a Warrior. Which I still don't understand why they can't. It is the universal class across all races in the game and has been since Vanilla if I am not mistaken.

Technically, I doubt this would be a problem. The reason for that, if I had to guess, would be the immersion they are going for with this race/class. As far as we know (and from what we have seen), Drakthyrs are animated in a different way than other races. For other races, you have to create simple universal animations like: swing animation, cast animation etc. etc. Then you just tie particle effects to said animations and you have, say, a mage that shoots different spells using those universal cast animations. Easy peasy.

Drakthyr seems to use his body as the focal point of animation of different abilities; it stretches its head to "spew" fire; it's flies over the battlefield breathing fire; it jumps into the air doing funny arcane shenanigans; it's bending forward while chanelling... It seems like every spell is rather unique as far as body behaviour goes. For that reason, I think the Drakthyr feels very physical when doing his stuff. It's rather safe to say it will be the most thoroughly animated race in the game.

Problem is, this doesn't translate well into other classes. Those are all caster abilities, you won't have those as a warrior. Yes, technically it's not really a problem to create a swing animation, put some kind of a weapon into the Drakthyr's hand and just use all existing warrior particle effects and animations. But that would make the class feel a bit... gutted in comparision to the Evoker. It'd be like a cheap, simple version of something more ambitious, and I'd guess they want to avoid that feeling. So them going as warriors - yeah, but I feel Blizzard would want to animate them in a similarly rich fashion, with every skill having its own body animation etc. And that's a lot of work to do. Maybe in the future...? Who knows.

[Gigantique]

Option 4 "solves" my wish for a less slender build (I wouldn't want Draconid-levels for a caster either) so all I want now is for the option to also increase the neck thickness and head size as well. The option for a more Stormdrake-esque jaw would be amazing but there are so many options I'm sure I can manage to make it work regardless.

[Kumorii]

It's literally on your signature. They only had to listen. Well, now they did, so stop being triggered and learn to take the L.

Ah, but you are making a mistake. When people say "They should listen to the community" they mean "They should listen to what I want".
And also, if they listen to ideas that I don't want, they should not listen to the community, but they should still listen to me!

[Synapse12]

Looking at your post history, i dont think you can handle, you will just dismiss everything.

What about my post history? Also, if you say something that makes literally no sense then yes I will dismiss it, otherwise we can have a discussion about it.

Yeah, tis only me who complained in this entire thread, and yeah, you are part of the problem of why they will not make significant changes

I'm not saying literally no one else is complaining, I'm highlighting how your framing of this issue is hilariously skewed. You are making it seem like this massive population of players have been advocating for a draconic race since forever and now that dracthyr came out they are all up in arms about how undraconic they look.

When in reality it's like 4 people on the MMO-Champ forum with a forum signature or a couple people on reddit making an edit to slightly adjust the neck a bit lol.

Your framing of this is in the fantasy world itself.

ITs a false equivalence because they are not the same, do i have to spell that out?

Okay buddy, let me walk you through this. Proving something is false is a lot more difficult than just saying it's false. Idk who taught you otherwise but they taught you wrong alright?

Here you made a false equivalence when you tried to redo my deathknight scenario right? Now instead of just saying that's a false equivalence and then walking away, I acted like a big boy and highlighted exactly how it was false and exactly why it didn't make sense.

And no your analogy is terrible. You know why? Because deathknights were already a class in the warcraft universe. They were already unholy warriors, basically the opposite of a paladin. Making them a mage is not even remotely similar to making the dracthyr evokers. If that class or race already existed in the universe to be one thing and they just completely changed it to be another, then you would have a point. But at this moment you have none. None at all.

See how I went through and explain exactly why it didn't make sense? If you can't do this, then you can't call it false. Okay? Okay.

and you know what? Dragonsworn were already a class in the warcraft universe too

Alright now tell me is the class we are getting Dragonsworn? Yes or no. Because this discussion is about the class evokers and the race Dracthyr.

[Magistrate]

Dracthyr are just a gateway drug for closeted furries.

My brother in Christ we have tauren vulpera pandaren shitloads of druid forms goats...

[Aucald]

You straight up said its only a "me" problem, despite having other people complaining still.

That is the context you are missing.

"Me and some random other people with different complaints" isn't a community, plurality, or movement. Like I have complaints about the Dracthyr model, but I very obviously don't agree with your thrust, and neither do other people complaining about other things. That is the context you are missing.

My complaint, about the size of the model's head specifically, is also a "me problem," which I fully and unreservedly owned when I brought it up. It's okay if you're not part of a greater movement - you can have your own opinion absent from the backing of others.

Blizzard taking a perfect fine idea from the community and making garbage is normal, not an "conspiracy" or an "agenda", this is path of the course with their idea of more profit for less effort.

The allied race was literally that, they took the idea of the subraces that the community asked(and they did many times aknowledge the community wanted that) and instead of just doing, they made the allied races.

Now, instead of just doing like MOP with pandarens and monks, they came up with a garbage idea of a class that can be only one race and a race that can only be one class, and the sad aprt, besides the awful model is how people keep defending blizzard by their laziness.

What "perfect fine idea from the community" did they take and make garbage? Was there some unilateral idea that *everyone* agreed on that Blizzard just didn't do? I don't recall one. That's one of the issues with your whole community bit - this notion that there was some agreed-upon idea A that got thrown in the trash in favor of idea B. I remember like 20 different ideas for a dragon-related class or race, all of them with different ideas and notions of what would be cool. Which of those ideas are you stumping for? Allied races *are* subraces - so it sounds like you're just quibbling about their implementation, which is a fine hill to die on, I guess, but also kind of immaterial to me personally. I'd have been fine with either method of implementation.

I do agree that the class restriction to Evoker for Dracthyr isn't great, but I also understand the justification of how the two things interconnect in terms of the game story. I don't agree the idea is born out of developer laziness, though; as there are both lore and gameplay reasons as to why the restriction is in place which have already been explained. It's kind of disappointing, sure; but it is what it is.

So, you are not the community, got it.

Well, you got that part of it - but missed that you are also not the community.

In terms of gameplay? maybe, but the problem is that a dragonsworn class was a caster already, so you aready took their entire thing

thats precisely because it is what i said, they took dragownsworn and drakonid/humanoid dragon, and instead of doing right, they made this "the innovate idea" of a race that can only be a class, because they are in fact, just demon hunter 2.0 and demon hunters can't be another class.

Um, no class can be another class in WoW? Demon Hunters can only be one of two current races - Blood Elves and Night Elves, which is what I assume you're alluding to? The Demon Hunter restriction is entirely a lore-related one, as well; as there's nothing mechanically preventing other races from having a handful of demonic traits and/or using Demon Hunter abilities. You could also make the argument that that applies, to a lesser degree, to the Dracthyr, and I wouldn't say you were wrong - but I can see why the race, with its more pronounced draconic appearance and physiology, is more confined to a class that is actually more integrated with those traits than Demon Hunters ever were.

There also isn't a current Dragonsworn class "that was already a caster," because there is no such class in WoW. There are Dragonsworn, sure; and some of them are caster-type NPCs, but they don't have a class beyond a handful of abilities. They'd also be a big reach to turn into a race considering they're quadrupedal - they'd have more limitations than even the Dracthyr do currently in Dragonflight.

You brought up the necromancer thing, and blizzard straight up said the Death knights already fill that fantasy, despite necromancer and death knight being fundamentally different

If they can say that to two classes clearly different, why do you think they would do another draconic class that is a caster in the next 10 years? this is beyond wishful thinking.

And that isn't vallid because at least, warlocks were not melee, the classes literally filled different niches and thematic

Blizzard has said a lot of things and then changed their minds and did them anyway - I doubt you've forgotten "you think you do, but you do don't" when it comes to their reticence to create a Classic version of WoW. The same thing was said about Warlocks fulfilling a given class fantasy when it comes to Demon Hunters, too, and that bridge got burned down in Legion. A melee-oriented Drakonid type race/class and the Dracthyr would also fill different niches and themes, as well. Basically put, this argument doesn't hold water.

Nobody said that, people literally said and wanted then to be a subrace of night elves

Let me guess, some mass community you represent *all* said this, to the exclusion of anything and everything else? Weird how many of those "communities" seem to exist, and how many of them appear to be in lock-step with your opinions. I can let you on a secret, though - *I* said that during Legion, as I thought the Nightborne's themes and aesthetic were already covered by the Blood Elves and the Night Elves depending on faction, and I doubted that they would become either the Allied Race they became or a customization option for existing Night Elves or Blood Elves. I was wrong, too; as in BfA they became a new Horde race.

ITs funny how now you can say "people" did this, and people did "that", but you can't acknowledge that people asked for dragonsworn and a drakonid race and people are not happy with their model and say its only me

That's kind of what you misunderstand - when I'm referring to "people" I'm not positing a community I represent that agrees with me, I'm just talking about random individuals with different ideas, notions, and opinions. Unless you're trying to claim that no one ever said such things, which we both know is patently false. I'm sure a bunch of people wanted a Dragonsworn/Drakonid type of race and aren't happy with the Dracthyr, but there's no homogeneous or accepted singular idea of what a Dragonswown/Drakonid type race they wanted, either. It boils down to "I/they wanted something different," and that's what we're talking about. Except instead of a nebulous they with no defined idea, we're talking about you specifically and your specific idea, absent an imaginary community in lock-step with you. Some people find that the Dracthyr as presented *are* the idea they wanted, or very close to it - do you represent them, as well? I would insert a pithy emoji here, but I generally find them distracting or annoying.

i never said the community as a whole want X or Y, you are trying to act like there is not different communities, playerbases or people playing this game, and, instead of arguing about the issue, you preffer to go for the semantics of the thing.

Answer, truthfully, if a large amount of players didn't asked for a dragonsworn class and humanoid dragons race, so we can put this argument to rest and you stop saying it was just "me".

You didn't say it outright, but the substance of your argument kind of depends on a homogenous kind of opinion that doesn't exist. You're implicitly leaning on a specific opinion (e.g. the community doesn't want this), and I'm demonstrating to you that this notion isn't true. You've repeatedly said that very phrase or implied it, when in reality, the subjects in question are only you and me, at least in the context of this debate.

Your request above hinges on the same device I'm saying is invalid - "a large amount of players asking for X Dragonsworn class and humanoid/dragon race" where X is entirely unknown and not agreed upon. I can't answer the question truthfully or even answer it at all because X in this cause can stand for any of a number of dragon-related class/race ideas. Which Dragonsworn class idea is preferential? Anything besides the Dracthyr? Everything? This isn't semantic trickery, it's actually presenting a constructive alternative we can actually discuss.

Another sport...? are you for real?

People asked for buffy options like the fanart in my signature, they didn't asked for just "more body options"

You are dumbing down the request by saying they just asked for more body options, thats it, and since they did got new body options, they got what they want, ignoring they did not got what they asked for, truly gold

Sorry, that was a tongue-in-cheek reference as to how the "I want a completely different race/class" discussion is tangential and unrelated to this thread's topic, which it honestly is. There are other threads more involved in discussing whole-cloth alternative ideas to the Dracthytr, and honestly, I think that's where you're more at as opposed to a thread actually discussing the customization options for the Dracthyr race.

Exactly, you can't show something they didn't do, therefore, validating my argument that they didn't give what the people wanted, because they didn't even had done yet.

OH yah, i did play alpha or beta before, and its precisely what im saying i doubt things will change, exactly because ~~ some people ~~ who like to dismiss vallid complains saying its just "their problem" or saying "its just alpha"

The alpha and the beta is the right time to complain about their garbage modelgoddammit, otherwise they will not change, not after the expansion launch, so skip us with this nonsense, and let people who are not satisfied with the model voice their opinions

If some people liked? good, wonderful, its not like we are wanting then to remove their stuff, just add more, that would bennefit everyone.

If you're wanting more customization options for the Dracthyr, then that's all to the good - say that, and don't dilute your message by harping about other Dragonsworn class/race ideas that aren't currently on the table for the next expansion. If that's the wavelength, then I'm down with that, as I've said in this very thread multiple times now. More customization options are always better, and more of them appear to be in the pipeline, so this should be a place where we talk about the specific options we want to have (like my suggestion to allow adjustment to the models' head and horn size).

Complaining about how the Dracthyr sucks and another race/class would've been better? Not constructive, and kind of irrelevant to the thread. Talking about more and different customization options? Precisely what the thread is for, essentially.

Me "thinking the same" does not change the fact that you lied about something i didn't say, that is a fact.

Now *that* is a semantic dodge if ever there was one. Sure, I unintentionally misrepresented what you said - thinking you were implying something you claimed you weren't, but when put to the task, nonetheless agreed with my interpretation concerning it? I'd just say to own it at this point. Whether you or not you actually said it, you outright agreed with it regardless, so why beat around the bush on a mere technicality.

I mean, you can keep going with this absurdism falalcy, but its clear to anyone who want to see, its the same recipe, elf turning into a demon form, elf turning into a dragon form, 2 subclasses, they can't be another class, obviously, but all those things are not true at all, just conspiracy

Because it's neither absurd nor a fallacy - and it's certainly not clear to you, so very obviously "not clear to anyone." The Evoker class and the Demon Hunter class are not 100% the same, do not share even the same restrictions, and fundamentally fill different functions, roles, and player fantasies. Try to bend yourself into as many logical contortions as you like, you're not going to be able to square that circle.

As a capstone to this rolling back-and-forth, I think we've said all that needs to be said and, barring perhaps a handful of points, we are going to be at an impasse going forward. Feel free to add a rebuttal to any of the above, but for my part, I've said my peace as concerns the above arguments, and these replies are taking up way too much time for me - so consider this my parting shot as concerns the specific debate.

[Dioporco]

You are saying that a Dracthyr with the muscle proportions of Jason Momoa isn't buff.



But of course you can say that Jason Momoa isn't buff - then we'll kindly ask you to step outside for once this year and actually look at real people instead of idealized Deviantart scaly art as linked by Lorgar.

if you think those are the same, i will pay your medical bill for the eyes check up

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Yeah this guy is def too deep into some sort of anime or furry art thing if he thinks that isn’t buff. Also the fact that he said we need to go to the gym if we think that’s buff? I don’t think this person has been outside lately if they really believe that people even achieve this sort of body type regularly.

talking about anime or furry deep yadda while playing a fantasy game, are you drunk or what?


--------------


also comparing a real human body with a 3d fantasy model is the dumbest thing i ever saw.





if you cant understand that the red one is the correct version of "bulky" for a dragon race isnt my problem






this is what a "dragon" race should looks like as buffness it should looks like he is wearing armor, if a dragon is big then its humanoid form should be bigger than a human, and they looks like belf.

the fact that belf and humans are buff in wow doesnt mean it shouldnt be bigger, but since it is a caster class well...

[Rageonit]

if you cant understand that the red one is the correct version of "bulky" for a dragon race isnt my problem

I'm going to say that this red version would look beyond hilarious with the current Evoker animations (which you probably didn't bother checking out). It doesn't even have a neck to stretch for half of the casting animations Evokers use atm. It has absolutelty no place in the current class fantasy; Evoker is not a steroid-fed bodybuilder who couldn't even bend because of the amount of muscles. No. Just no.

[Synapse12]

also comparing a real human body with a 3d fantasy model is the dumbest thing i ever saw..

Wait a minute, aren’t you the furry that told me that if I think the biggest dracthyr was buff that I needed to go to a gym to see what real buff is?

You just called yourself dumb. You understand that right?

[Dioporco]

I'm going to say that this red version would look beyond hilarious with the current Evoker animations (which you probably didn't bother checking out). It doesn't even have a neck to stretch for half of the casting animations Evokers use atm. It has absolutelty no place in the current class fantasy; Evoker is not a steroid-fed bodybuilder who couldn't even bend because of the amount of muscles. No. Just no.

It will be silly because (I checked the animations) Dracthyr are casters and the entire race wasnt meant to have a melee/tank aspect since they dont have Black Dragon dna at all.

The entire "buff" convo is regarding the possibile future implementation of a tank/melee/black dragon spec

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Wait a minute, aren’t you the furry that told me that if I think the biggest dracthyr was buff that I needed to go to a gym to see what real buff is?

You just called yourself dumb. You understand that right?

lmao "the furry" imagine acting like a 5y old and having the understanding of a drop out, for real go to a gym and watch closely not random choosing a 3/4 angle photo to compare with something we have no irl comparison.


you keep mixing real body type with fantasy xeno race.



You probably watch marvel movies and thinks that reality works like that

[Synapse12]

It will be silly because (I checked the animations) Dracthyr are casters and the entire race wasnt meant to have a melee/tank aspect since they dont have Black Dragon dna at all.

The entire "buff" convo is regarding the possibile future implementation of a tank/melee/black dragon spec

So your issue isn’t that they aren’t buff enough right now it’s that they aren’t buff enough for a play style and class that they won’t even have available for them?

I’m sorry but what in gods name is there to complain about exactly?

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lmao "the furry" imagine acting like a 5y old and having the understanding of a drop out, for real go to a gym and watch closely not random choosing a 3/4 angle photo to compare with something we have no irl comparison.


you keep mixing real body type with fantasy xeno race.



You probably watch marvel movies and thinks that reality works like that

Wait a minute you literally just compared real life ‘buff’ to fantasy again. You JUST said this is the dumbest thing ever to do and you just did it. I never even compared it to real life once and you have done it for the third time now even after saying it’s a dumb thing to do.

Idk if you realize this but you are literally calling yourself dumb dude lol.

[A Chozo]

Please, Titans in the sky, please tell me that the inflated bara Dracthyr edit wasn't linked unironically here again as some sort of good example.

Fucking hell.

[Dioporco]

So your issue isn’t that they aren’t buff enough right now it’s that they aren’t buff enough for a play style and class that they won’t even have available for them?

I’m sorry but what in gods name is there to complain about exactly?

The entire convo is about 2 things learn to read.



1. The fact that a Dragon race looks like more to Divinity 2 Lizardman than a "humanoid+dragonoid" race for WoW standards.

2. Begin a caster usually means that you are not buffed at all since you are not a melee enjoyer, but there are few expections like Guldan / Orcs / Eredar



By wow standards. all human have the same body hence if that is the "standard" it means that a body like Tauren or Draenei or Kul tiran is the wow counterpart of "buffed"






So a Dragon race with Tauren/Draenei/Kultiran male proportion would be considered buffed in wow terms.

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Wait a minute you literally just compared real life ‘buff’ to fantasy again.

i havent posted a momoa pics to compare it, so you are wrong yet again?

[Aucald]

Please, Titans in the sky, please tell me that the inflated bara Dracthyr edit wasn't linked unironically here again as some sort of good example.

I keep seeing the term "bara" being used in this thread, and it's making me feel like the old man I actually am. What exactly does "bara" mean in this context? I would just Google it, but I'm at work at the moment and I'm a bit worried about what the results would be.

[Rageonit]

The entire "buff" convo is regarding the possibile future implementation of a tank/melee/black dragon spec

Oh, okay then. Well, since we assume there will be a future implementation of a tank/melee/black dragon spec, lets just also assume that it will come with a new, buffed up body type for the race. And now we can put this conversation to rest.

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I keep seeing the term "bara" being used in this thread, and it's making me feel like the old man I actually am. What exactly does "bara" mean in this context? I would just Google it, but I'm at work at the moment and I'm a bit worried about what the results would be.

Bara is basically gay manga with lots of muscular males. It was wise of you to not to google it in work

[Dioporco]

I keep seeing the term "bara" being used in this thread, and it's making me feel like the old man I actually am. What exactly does "bara" mean in this context? I would just Google it, but I'm at work at the moment and I'm a bit worried about what the results would be.

inflated barE (torso) Dracthyr typo probably or gay manga i guess



btw wonderful how people keep taunting with furry or dumb cleaver wording to circumvent infractions, while people telling "you think marvel movies are real" gets one very nice

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Oh, okay then. Well, since we assume there will be a future implementation of a tank/melee/black dragon spec, lets just also assume that it will come with a new, buffed up body type for the race. And now we can put this conversation to rest.

Not really? The fact is that even without the "tank spec" speculation, it is still valid since "dragon" race in wow etc etc the only way is to have a body slider.

[Rageonit]

Not really? The fact is that even without the "tank spec" speculation, it is still valid since "dragon" race in wow etc etc the only way is to have a body slider.

Problem is that thing you've linked would still be out of place for the class that can actually BE Drakthyrs now. If you did check out the animations, you had to notice that Evokers are an agile class, with lots of jumping, stretching and bending involved. That thing you've linked could neither jump, stretch nor bend. It's an abomination, it's a slab of meat that can stand, do something akin to running and swing a big sword - and that's basically it. I have no idea if it's even possible to animate it for the current Evoker abilities the way it doesn't look like a damn parody. If that thing tried to do the fire spewing animation we know from the Evoker announcement, it would probably tear a couple of muscles by doing so (without really succeeding).

[Icelin]

bara

Well this term just solved everything. I had to look up what this meant. Look Blizzard, if you research what the word means it translates to big ESG points. Time to modify/fix the second form and make it bulkier. Let's do this. Then it wouldn't false advertise the franchise either to newcomers watching the movie streaming on Netflix.

If people want to play the stereotype of a more slender "casting class" Dracthyr form.. they will have this option too. It will be a win-win for everyone.

Try and make the overall look more cohesive this time too please. Stockier head, bigger jaw possibly? Maybe a big thick tail to go along with those vibes. Make them look fierce. Love lots of these examples around here to get inspiration from.