Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[Khaza-R]

Strange that people say it's so easy and so brain dead yet back in the day you required a certain gearscore and achievement to join raids for it.

People didn't use GS for Naxx. It really became widespread around ICC. That was because most PUGs could easily roll the first few bosses but then would completely fall apart around Plagueworks or Blood Council (if they were lucky). So gearing checking and achievement checking became a prevalent thing.

[Battlebeard]

Lmao. Saying nax25 was hard is a joke. My guild cleared it with 18 players in tbc gear back during original wrath. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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Gearscore only started in uldir. Before that it wasnt a thing.

I never said it was hard for guilds, but it was hard for Pugs back in the day.

[Mikah]

Lmao. Saying nax25 was hard is a joke. My guild cleared it with 18 players in tbc gear back during original wrath. You have no idea what you are talking about.

18 players may be pushing it a bit... but yea...


The first clear by TwentyFifthNovember (a merge of Nihilum and SK-Gaming) was with 20 players, and happened 68.5 hours after launch.

They were pretty much in BiS T6 gear, with a couple of players that were not even lvl80.

So essentially, it was so easy that you could skip dungeons/reputations/professions gearing before raiding and clear all the content in one-shot.

Once people caught up with a bit of dungeon gear and you could gather 25 players, it was beyond easy, even for casual guilds and pugs.


Not only that, those with experience in clearing Naxx in vanilla were very rare back then, and not that many people were in BiS sunwell gear. The overall crowd is very different now.

I think it makes sense to buff it up a bit, because otherwise people will be screaming for Ulduar within a week or two. As in everything, finding the right balance to make it slightly challenging at first makes sense so that people don't skip on dungeons, quests, reputation, tradeskills, etc..

[Super Kami Dende]

I never said it was hard for guilds, but it was hard for Pugs back in the day.

Naxx25 was one of the most easily puggable Raids in WoW. Actually one of the biggest draws of Wrath was how easily you could get into Endgame. It is a large reason why Hardmodes/Heroic modes became a thing from Ulduar onwards since basically every Wrath Raid at its base level was highly puggable and hardmodes is what kept higher level guilds playing/progressing.

I raided with my Main in a Guild but my Alts raided everything completely each week as well. Hell even 2 Drake Sarth was puggable easily pre-ulduar.

[Battlebeard]

Naxx25 was one of the most easily puggable Raids in WoW. Actually one of the biggest draws of Wrath was how easily you could get into Endgame. It is a large reason why Hardmodes/Heroic modes became a thing from Ulduar onwards since basically every Wrath Raid at its base level was highly puggable and hardmodes is what kept higher level guilds playing/progressing.

I raided with my Main in a Guild but my Alts raided everything completely each week as well. Hell even 2 Drake Sarth was puggable easily pre-ulduar.

That is simply not true, I did some heavy research on the armory etc, it was not many pugs who cleared it easily. You can say it was easy and that the pugs sucked, but the fact remain that it took a very long time for many people.

I hope you are right, but I expect it will be many months of WoLK classic until average pugs clear 25 man, might not even happen for most of us pre-ulduar.

[Millyraynge]

Naxx25 was one of the most easily puggable Raids in WoW. Actually one of the biggest draws of Wrath was how easily you could get into Endgame. It is a large reason why Hardmodes/Heroic modes became a thing from Ulduar onwards since basically every Wrath Raid at its base level was highly puggable and hardmodes is what kept higher level guilds playing/progressing.

I raided with my Main in a Guild but my Alts raided everything completely each week as well. Hell even 2 Drake Sarth was puggable easily pre-ulduar.

Naxx25 were very well suited for PUGs, casual raids, and entry level raid groups. Ulduar and ICC were the total opposite. Ulduar also had the misfortune of being relatively short-lived in its appeal, as T9 content was quickly available. In the short dwell time, the aforementioned groups generally didn't manage to ever even get to see Yogg, not to mention killing him. For groups with one raid day a week, Ulduar was impossible. ICC was significantly longer lasting and also still offered the 5-20% buff, so even such groups were eventually able to clear the raid on normal.

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Strange that people say it's so easy and so brain dead yet back in the day you required a certain gearscore and achievement to join raids for it.

Gear Score became popular in the wide masses during the time of T8/T9 Content. Item checks in general have appeared sporadically since the beginning of WoW.

[Super Kami Dende]

Naxx25 were very well suited for PUGs, casual raids, and entry level raid groups. Ulduar and ICC were the total opposite.

ICC was pugged consistently throughout its entire lifespan on my Server. Ulduar started off being tough on Pugs until People learnt how to do Flame Leviathan properly and it became widely pugged as well.

I'm unsure if it is just certain servers that struggled and People from those servers believing it to be the case overall, but I quite literally pugged full completion of each Raid tier during its own Patch on multiple characters in WotLK. Maybe it is just a server community issue?

[deenman]

Naxx25 were very well suited for PUGs, casual raids, and entry level raid groups. Ulduar and ICC were the total opposite.

Icc saw a ton of pugging also,wile ofc much harder mecanicaly than naxx,icc did have the added help of a 20% buff and acces to very good gear from dungeon badges,something that with naxx wasnt an option unless you were decked in good tbc gear

[Glazey]

That is simply not true, I did some heavy research on the armory etc, it was not many pugs who cleared it easily. You can say it was easy and that the pugs sucked, but the fact remain that it took a very long time for many people.

I hope you are right, but I expect it will be many months of WoLK classic until average pugs clear 25 man, might not even happen for most of us pre-ulduar.

even if what you are saying is true; you're under the assumption that the average player hasn't massively improved from wrath until now.

[Battlebeard]

even if what you are saying is true; you're under the assumption that the average player hasn't massively improved from wrath until now.

There are many new players, and Classic is home to many dad gamers like me, who don't work to improve or care :P

[Glazey]

There are many new players, and Classic is home to many dad gamers like me, who don't work to improve or care :P

If they're new it doesn't matter how hard or easy the content is, and even if that does affect those players it'll be absurdly small. it doesn't take that much work to run the right talents or pressing cds at the right time, that is legitimately the most you need to be able to clear

[Makaloff]

Strange that people say it's so easy and so brain dead yet back in the day you required a certain gearscore and achievement to join raids for it.

i mean thats just pugging in general, if you pug you want to make sure you get people that know what they are doing (allthought achi doesnt always nessecerily reflect this)

[Battlebeard]

Strange that people say it's so easy and so brain dead yet back in the day you required a certain gearscore and achievement to join raids for it.

Exactly! Missed this post, but you are 100% correct.

People saying Naxx will be easy, prove your words, invite ANYONE regardless of experience and skill and then clear it, then you'll see it's not gonna be as easy as you remember it.

Whenever Naxx is released, there will be tons of people who will not find a single group, who will be denied over and over, cause if you take 25 randoms without any requirements, you won't clear it, hence it will NOT be an easy raid.

[Glazey]

Exactly! Missed this post, but you are 100% correct.

People saying Naxx will be easy, prove your words, invite ANYONE regardless of experience and skill and then clear it, then you'll see it's not gonna be as easy as you remember it.

Whenever Naxx is released, there will be tons of people who will not find a single group, who will be denied over and over, cause if you take 25 randoms without any requirements, you won't clear it, hence it will NOT be an easy raid.

This is just delusion at this point.

Naxx was cleared easily by pugs because I did it. Back when it was current content without any real knowledge of the place or even how to play my spec correctly, Infact it was my very first tier of raiding and I cleared it. Upping the difficulty slightly isn't going to change anything, Care Bear mode to Hold my Hand mode this is what they're essentially doing.

Take 25 people with no knowledge of what they're doing, they'll still clear it. Won't be smooth, but it will get done. Just like all the other raids before it. (Gearscore/Achievement requirements were creeated/used to help ensure smooth runs, nothing more)

[Erolian]

I never said it was hard for guilds, but it was hard for Pugs back in the day.

Idk what dogwater server you played on but T7 was my first raid and my first time playing WoW ever and it was easy to learn and clear for me and almost any pug I ever joined on mine. Y'all must've been hot trash back in the day lol

[deenman]

Idk what dogwater server you played on but T7 was my first raid and my first time playing WoW ever and it was easy to learn and clear for me and almost any pug I ever joined on mine. Y'all must've been hot trash back in the day lol

Can confirm,when wrath came out i changed servers,fresh start,the random guild i found literaly couldnt kill anub in 10 man

[Xath]

There are many new players, and Classic is home to many dad gamers like me, who don't work to improve or care :P

There aren't many new players and being a dad gamer doesn't mean you automatically suck.

[Makaloff]

I hope not, but T5 and SWP were horrible and almost killed all fun in the game. So many guilds disbanded and so many players quit.

I find this as proof that many, not all of course, but many of us don’t want much challenge in classic.

Disaster struck twice already, don’t wanna see it a third time.

I hope I am wrong, and if I am, if I oneshot Naxx 25 the first week its avaliable, Ill make a new thread and declare myself completly wrong and a complete ass. Tho I am sadly fairly confident I am right

people disbanded over T5 content? thats just sad, its not even much going on with the bosses either. SWP essentially is a gear check, the only real boss that have plenty of mechanics is KJ and even he is easy. granted, muru was a brick to deal with but that was due gear issues. but i dont think you need to worry about naxx, its easy puggable back then, it will be easily puggable now, especielly when (most) people know what they are doing and have functioning computer and internet and not running wow on 15 fps on a potato from late 80s with a internet that died as soon someone answered the phone

[Battlebeard]

people disbanded over T5 content? thats just sad, its not even much going on with the bosses either. SWP essentially is a gear check, the only real boss that have plenty of mechanics is KJ and even he is easy. granted, muru was a brick to deal with but that was due gear issues. but i dont think you need to worry about naxx, its easy puggable back then, it will be easily puggable now, especielly when (most) people know what they are doing and have functioning computer and internet and not running wow on 15 fps on a potato from late 80s with a internet that died as soon someone answered the phone

Yeah, Vashj and Kael were guildbreakers, I remember so many, many guilds disband at them prenerf :O

[Makaloff]

Yeah, Vashj and Kael were guildbreakers, I remember so many, many guilds disband at them prenerf :O

oof, granted i missed T5 but im still surprised people disbanded over it. but to get ontopic, i dont think you need to worry about naxx really, it will be easily puggable. i think people will even pug ToC and ICC HC this time around even