I would give you respect, but you seem intent on demanding posession of what is not yours to take or lord over on more than a few occasions.
And in spite of your protestations i have yet to see any indication you would return what is mine.
- - - Updated - - -
You seem to have missed the point that i was mocking his sentiment of "earning" anything in a game.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
Your argument is that merely participating earns you a right to the profits, based more on luck in this case than on whether or not you deserve it. Master Looter ideally allows an arbiter to make intelligent decisions about who most earned the right to the profits, which is how a capitalist system works. You ideally get what you put in, what you are arguing for is getting rewarded at random and claiming it is deserved merely by being a single living body within the group.
Imagine a world where promotions and raises were handed out at random in the workplace, this is what you are arguing for. It's not quite communism, but it's a lot closer to it than it is to effort+loyalty=reward.
Except you have not a shred of authority in regards to who deserves what, especially not in comparison to the game itself.
Like a true party apparatnik you assert that you and yours know better and have the authority to decide, when the practical evidence in relation to the actual rewards acquisition method (namely the rng) thereof is roughly zero.
So, comrade, when will you stop playing the coy communist in denial, or should it be off to the gulag with you?
(also protip: capitalism is about the power to decide and little else, i'm a great fan; my investments generate profits for me regardless of the opinions of countless "qualified", "productive", "hard-working" people that are totally "competent" despite always depending on another's approval for every reward in their life, rather than ever truly reaping what they sow)
Last edited by loras; 2022-07-15 at 01:23 AM.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
You must be really obtuse.
YOU CANT CLEAR A RAID ON YOUR OWN.
You need a well-oiled group, a raid environment that will allow you as a player get shit done and have fun while doing so.
I, as a raid leader, PROVIDE THAT ENVIRONMENT, which I worked very hard to create. That is where the non-existant authority you claim, actually exists and comes from.
There are many more raiders out there than raiding guilds that need raiders. Keep that in mind.
You also sound like someone who has never played a team sport in their entire life, or you'd know what it means to be part of a team. Hierarchy is a thing you know.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
Had you read my very first comment, you would've seen I literally said "When Master Looter comes back, I will be deciding who gets what, it's a dictatorship, noone gets a say" to my raiders. And they all agreed. Funny how that works eh?
Show that you're a leader who doesn't abuse power, and people will give you power willingly.
Ooooh mr. communist is a democratically elected people's republic leader now. How utterly convincing.
Become a leader by seizing power, show that you are "worthy" of it by seizing it.
If you are unworthy, then another will come and seize it from you; the best will always rise to the top.
Games do not allow this though, do they?
Might have something to do with the hilariously poor relevance of these comparisons to the situation at hand.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
deffo on the side that ML is horrible the game and community PL was simple and easy. Nothing like joining a run and having the RL decide to change the rules or just do their own thing after saying XYZ at the start. If anything all they had to do was remove the ilvl trade restrictions or make if its within 5 ilvls or something. Returning to ninja looting is just bad.
Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
Never heard of the phrase "It takes two"? Sure, you can help someone by giving them resources to learn their class, or teaching them a few pointers. But without their effort into actually following up on that, you go nowhere. Their growth is their own efforts, not yours.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
I never said I was solely responsible. Re-read my posts. I said my input as an experienced raider and leader is what HELPED them reach the level they are today. I showed understanding when people made mistakes, knowing that each player has his/her own learning curve. Some of my raiders need to see a mechanic 3 times, and they learnt it. Others need 10 times. Others need 20. And that's fine.
My whole point is that, no, not everyone in a raid is equal. Not everyone has equal responsibilities. Not everyone has equal output. Not everyone has equal knowledge. Some have more than others. Some, like my 1 officer who helps me out, is amazing at everything. Hierarchy is what is set. Respect, trust and authority are gained, after a prolonged period of time.
This is all a response and argumentation to why Master Looter coming back is a good thing. It allows raid leaders, officers, loot councils to make decisions that benefit the raid team as a WHOLE. Because when you're part of a team, YOUR personal progress matters less than the GROUPS progress as a whole. That is why Main-tank prio exists - it is in YOUR best interest as a raider for YOUR main-tank to be an unkillable monster. That is why you give BIS weapons and trinkets to your top DPSers FIRST - because it is in YOUR best interest as a raider that your Destruction Warlock with 100% raid attendance who tops the meters all the time gets geared to the teeth. And that is why Master Looter is needed. So that the leadership CAN make these decisions for the benefit of the raid, instead of relying on bullshit RNG.
THIS is what most people who have never been a part of a team do not understand.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
"Almost everyone has raided". Yeah. In PUGs. Where shitty master looters ninja'd their loot.
Truth of the matter is, as soon as you're in an organized guild, with set raid times & days, if the leadership starts fucking around with loot distribution (nepotistically giving it to friends, being unfair, being coy etc and so forth), those guilds implode. They're done in 2-3 resets. Core members who don't wanna put up with the bullshit start leaving, raids turn into shit-shows, farm bosses can no longer be cleared because your 4 best DPSers and your 2 best healers + your maintank have left, and the guild is gone after a short while.
Now PUGs are a completely different issue. Yes, people abuse ML in pugs. All the time. But guess what? MOP fixed that, if I remember correctly. I think it was in MOP, or maybe even in Cataclysm, that Blizzard made is so that ML was only available in a raid if 80%+ of the raid team was from the same guild. In a Mythic raid, that's 16/20 people. To avoid people abusing it in PUGs. And it worked.
Also, I love how you quoted 1 line from my post, and conveniently left out everything else. Do you disagree that it is in your best interest for your raid's maintank to be beefy as fuck? Do you disagree that, when progress raiding, BIS DPS throughput items should go to your best, most loyal DPSers, who are always there and who don't fuck up mechanics? Do you disagree that the best healing trinkets should go to your highest throughput, highest attendance based healers? If the answer is "Yes" to ANY ONE of those questions, you just answered yourself why Master Looter coming back is a good thing. It literally allows you to skip 1 layer of RNG when it comes to gearing up your raid.
Last edited by Dalinos; 2022-07-15 at 02:18 AM.
It wasn't Cataclysm, nor was it a vast majority of MoP, it was only added with flex group. And yes, I cut most of your post out because it's mostly talking again about how much you think you've done and how great it is, but you fail to realize there's people on this very forum who have done similar and you act as if no one else disagreeing with you has been part of a team.
I, for one, haven't pugged anything outside of the last patch of Legion, or maybe an odd player or two for M+.
Lastly, you seemed to almost miss the memo that this isn't master loot. From what they've said, it's group loot. So need before greed and what not.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
Group Loot is just Master Loot with extra steps. "Everyone pass, raid leader needs on everything, we give out loot during trash". And no, that's not what most of my post said, it detailed why and how having full control over who gets what is a good thing while progress raiding.
No, it didn't.
The idea of a main tank is pretty outdated in today's raids, for one. Almost every single boss has some uncreative tank swap mechanic that happens at reliable intervals. So your idea of needing "one super tanky tank" is weird. And your idea of gearing out one DPS to carry the rest of the group is just further pushing a divide between your bottom DPS and the top, rather than trying to equally bring everyone up, especially in a world where M+ exists and chances are, your top DPS is top because they're gearing out from all sources rather than just raids.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator