Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

I could see Galakrond end up being something like Kralkatorrik in GW2 where maybe you use dragonriding to get around different sides of him and hit his weak points. Its certainly possible to pull off.

This would make the fight one of the most hated already. Oculus was received poorly and the Malygos phase where people were flying was not better. Anything that requires 3D movement while fighting will instantly be a major miss.

[huth]

Oh, no. I didn't mean to say it's a plothole for this particular case. It's more of a general thought. Meddling with time isn't usually a good idea

A big problem, as WoD showed, is also that people tend to way overcomplicate things when they analyse the timeline.

[Feali]

I don't think spine was inherently bad in premise. Its just too long and ultimately the mechanic wasn't fun.

I could see Galakrond end up being something like Kralkatorrik in GW2 where maybe you use dragonriding to get around different sides of him and hit his weak points. Its certainly possible to pull off.

I think that you are correct that the worst issue was the long fight time. But I was more referring to that we never actually fought Deathwing. It was just "fight adds over adds until you reach the end" and no real boss.

Dragonriding could be fun as a mechanic to use for the fight. Just do it better than Malygos or Oculus.

[Makabreska]

The issue I have with Galakrond is that he would be way too big for a boss fight. I don't want a repeat of Spine/Madness of Deathwing.

I really do not dig Murozond, due to him being strongly foreshadowed so long ago. Wild scenario: Galakrond is so massive that Blizz could actually make entire raid out of him, where we go in and out of his body to fuck him up.

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This would make the fight one of the most hated already. Oculus was received poorly and the Malygos phase where people were flying was not better. Anything that requires 3D movement while fighting will instantly be a major miss.

Dunno, they are still not afraid of doing it (Blackwater Behemoth). And Dragon Riding may be a much better implementation. Would be actually surprised if they WONT use it in any fight in DF.

[Nymrohd]

This would make the fight one of the most hated already. Oculus was received poorly and the Malygos phase where people were flying was not better. Anything that requires 3D movement while fighting will instantly be a major miss.

But that is exactly what Dragonriding was created to solve. 3D movement in wow is crap, you are just swimming through the air. More importantly part of the problem with Occulus and Malygos was that there was no time to practice the vehicle controls. Occulus only was available inside the dungeon; Malygos' drakes were available in a daily to train but how many people bothered?

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The issue I have with Galakrond is that he would be way too big for a boss fight. I don't want a repeat of Spine/Madness of Deathwing.

I'd love a huge open air battle with him. We get an instanced version of the entire Dragon Isles and we chase him around using Dragonriding, stopping at different points to engage him.

[Wonderment2]

But that is exactly what Dragonriding was created to solve. 3D movement in wow is crap, you are just swimming through the air. More importantly part of the problem with Occulus and Malygos was that there was no time to practice the vehicle controls. Occulus only was available inside the dungeon; Malygos' drakes were available in a daily to train but how many people bothered?

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I'd love a huge open air battle with him. We get an instanced version of the entire Dragon Isles and we chase him around using Dragonriding, stopping at different points to engage him.

I hadn't really thought about dragon riding in instances. That could be incredibly cool.

[Nymrohd]

I think that you are correct that the worst issue was the long fight time. But I was more referring to that we never actually fought Deathwing. It was just "fight adds over adds until you reach the end" and no real boss.

Wish we had fought Deathwing on top of the Aspects. E.g. let us have one tank and three more people get a boon that made them large and let them ride the four aspects and engage Deathwing while the rest of the raid fought on the ground with a mechanic that forces people to rotate on the Aspects.

[Makabreska]

But that is exactly what Dragonriding was created to solve. 3D movement in wow is crap, you are just swimming through the air. More importantly part of the problem with Occulus and Malygos was that there was no time to practice the vehicle controls. Occulus only was available inside the dungeon; Malygos' drakes were available in a daily to train but how many people bothered?

TBH, it was never about actual controls, since everybody knew how flying works and were flying around Northrend. It was a sudden change of steering, but more importantly, a completely new set of abilities.

[Nebron]

A big problem, as WoD showed, is also that people tend to way overcomplicate things when they analyse the timeline.

I mean, the easiest and least confusing way to work with time is to simply push us forward. Hence, I have a gut feeling, that if it's not Galakrond who's the big bad, then it's Murozond who sends us into the future, which not only make story-wise justification for a world revamp and kinda 'soft reset' for WoW, but also creates a space for Warcraft 4 to tell the story in-between WoW 10.0 and 11.0.

[Worldshaper]

I mean, the easiest and least confusing way to work with time is to simply push us forward. Hence, I have a gut feeling, that if it's not Galakrond who's the big bad, then it's Murozond who sends us into the future, which not only make story-wise justification for a world revamp and kinda 'soft reset' for WoW, but also creates a space for Warcraft 4 to tell the story in-between WoW 10.0 and 11.0.

Not saying you're wrong, and I'm also on "Team World Revamp 11.0". But man, your exact argument has been used for like 5 expansions in a row now. Just replace the name of the final boss.

"It'll be a time skip, and then we'll get WC4 in the meantime, and..."

[Nebron]

Would be actually surprised if they WONT use it in any fight in DF.

Since there have been datamined abilities for Dragonriding (mainly PvP combat), it's almost guaranteed that they will implement at least one fight that utilize this system. It requires testing and veryfing what players like about dragonriding and what direction should they aim for, but I can't imagine they waste this potential.

[Raetary]

You know what Blizzard should do?

Update the character selection backgrounds.

[Nebron]

Not saying you're wrong, and I'm also on "Team World Revamp 11.0". But man, your exact argument has been used for like 5 expansions in a row now. Just replace the name of the final boss.

"It'll be a time skip, and then we'll get WC4 in the meantime, and..."

Well, the time skip had never really much sense, the closest I can think of would be a speculation about Shadowlands time, which goes slower there, so once we return, we are a few years into the future.
But Murozond, dude, it's few level of magnitude above all of them it's literally a corrupted Bronze Dragon, who's the lord of time. If that idea is not utilized, I can't think of anyhting that comes even close to that. Even WoD was just some random bullshit, initially with some hourglass stuff.

[Atticon]

I'm liking this first new raid tier way, way more than the Zereth Mortis ones.

[Nyel]

But that is exactly what Dragonriding was created to solve. 3D movement in wow is crap, you are just swimming through the air. More importantly part of the problem with Occulus and Malygos was that there was no time to practice the vehicle controls. Occulus only was available inside the dungeon; Malygos' drakes were available in a daily to train but how many people bothered?

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I'd love a huge open air battle with him. We get an instanced version of the entire Dragon Isles and we chase him around using Dragonriding, stopping at different points to engage him.

I really don't think that Dragonriding changes anything in that regard. Flying works because you concentrate on that and just on that. But intense combat, especially in HM or Mythic while you're flying a dragon? Nope.

This would work if the dragons are "on rails" or controlled by an AI. Players flying and fighting at the same time will never be received positively by the playerbase.

[Feali]

I really don't think that Dragonriding changes anything in that regard. Flying works because you concentrate on that and just on that. But intense combat, especially in HM or Mythic while you're flying a dragon? Nope.

This would work if the dragons are "on rails" or controlled by an AI. Players flying and fighting at the same time will never be received positively by the playerbase.

It might work for like the first or second boss. But as an endboss? No way. Too clustered. The fight would either be way too easy or way too hard.

[Nebron]

I really don't think that Dragonriding changes anything in that regard. Flying works because you concentrate on that and just on that. But intense combat, especially in HM or Mythic while you're flying a dragon? Nope.

This would work if the dragons are "on rails" or controlled by an AI. Players flying and fighting at the same time will never be received positively by the playerbase.

I think you are trying to translate player combat into dragonriding combat. In that regard I'd agree. My idea would be to use the combat system that Dragonriding may have to offer, of course if it's interesting / engaging enough.

I can imagine a fight where dragonriding is only a part of combat, like, maybe throwing the dragon on the ground and continue the fight in a player combat. Maybe that boss having some weak points in "air phase" so that you need to assault it properly, dodge the attacks and defeat the adds? Also, in such fight they could remove annoying constraints that are applied in regular, outdoor flying.

I don't know, there are dozens of possibilties

[Kiivar86]

I could see dragonriding being used in part of a raid, maybe even the penultimate version (i.e. instead of being on Deathwing's spine, chasing him, that sorta thing) but it strikes me also as potentially very chaotic and difficult to perform.

Has potential, though.

[Raetary]

Do we have images of the priest set?

[infinitemeridian]

I'm liking this first new raid tier way, way more than the Zereth Mortis ones.

Any more pics of the other sets? The ZM sets were have grown on me quite a bit.