Diablo Immortal major annoyance that will transfer to Diablo 4

[Ringthane]

Well, now I'm disappointed. Here I thought we were going to hear something about Mayor McCheese.

Now I am annoyed.

[Hobbidaggy]

Is not the store, but other people killing my bounty monsters.
Especially early on in the game when everyone and their mother are playing Diablo 4. I hate wasting time waiting on things in games.

Edit:
Let me add another thing.
FOMO on dailies that I absolutely hated in WoW and is currenlty in Diablo Immortal.

Wait…is Diablo 4 the same “online” experience as Diablo Immortal where the world is filed to the brim with other players? I thought we were getting single player with co-op/group ability like in Diablo 3….I hope this isn’t true it really ruined the idea that I’m a strong hero coming to save the day not one of the hundred running around

[Phob]

Careful guys, he has the game and is playing it right now with thousands of players. He knows what he's talking about. We were all just the unlucky ones that didn't see they "buy now" option for diablo 4.

[nvaelz]

Is not the store, but other people killing my bounty monsters.
Especially early on in the game when everyone and their mother are playing Diablo 4. I hate wasting time waiting on things in games.

Edit:
Let me add another thing.
FOMO on dailies that I absolutely hated in WoW and is currenlty in Diablo Immortal.

You do realize Diablo Immortal is a reskinned asian mobile game produced by Netease right? It's not actually a Blizzard product they just use the branding to siphon all the green juice out of their "beloved" fanbase.

Relax, Diablo 4 will be fine most likely. (((It tils me so hard when people can't tell the difference and don't understand the implications of how DI differs to every other Blizzard game, it's so annoying I hate Blizzard so much they are like unhinged heroin dealers not minding selling to small infants that don't understand, it's so evil of them I can't believe how unregulated virtual capitalism is.)))

Let me say this again: Diablo Immortal isn't a real Blizzard game they just have no shame and won't mind using their "respectable image" promoting the product. No one on my friends list ever plays that game anymore I wonder why.

[Stickiler]

Wait…is Diablo 4 the same “online” experience as Diablo Immortal where the world is filed to the brim with other players? I thought we were getting single player with co-op/group ability like in Diablo 3….I hope this isn’t true it really ruined the idea that I’m a strong hero coming to save the day not one of the hundred running around

There has been zero information, other than the gameplay previews which just show a single person. There are two groups of people, one group who see D4 as a continuation of D1/2/3, and the other group who sees D4 as a continuation of DI. Depending on which group you fall in to, you believe D4 will either have a MMO-esque open world, or it won't.

Above was my original comment, apparently incorrect according to this article -> https://www.gamesradar.com/diablo-4-...e-shared-world

[Kumorii]

There has been zero information, other than the gameplay previews which just show a single person. There are two groups of people, one group who see D4 as a continuation of D1/2/3, and the other group who sees D4 as a continuation of DI. Depending on which group you fall in to, you believe D4 will either have a MMO-esque open world, or it won't.

There are gameplay previews of players in the world and there is even a raid boss where it's multiple players Vs a big baddie.

- - - Updated - - -

If you have both, you split the community. More people is always a good thing.

Always? No, if I want to be alone more people isn't better. And if the other person don't want to be social and I don't think it's better to force them either. Social interaction is good when it's a choice. When people are social because they have to it's just a bad experience all around.

Often leads to unhealthy competition too. Fighting for mobs, resources etc etc.

[Hobbidaggy]

There has been zero information, other than the gameplay previews which just show a single person. There are two groups of people, one group who see D4 as a continuation of D1/2/3, and the other group who sees D4 as a continuation of DI. Depending on which group you fall in to, you believe D4 will either have a MMO-esque open world, or it won't.

Yeah I had only seen the stuff you mentioned and was wondering where the reveal it would be like DI was. I don’t think we will have it like DI purely because they have said side by side co-op and group play and I think it would get too confusing doing things like side by side co-op with a hundred other people running around on the screen.

I’m happy to wait and either be happy or saddened by the future reveal of how the game will function and I appreciate the response.

[kappalol]

I hope D4 will be completely soleable like diablo game should be.

[Mendzia]

Of course they will transfer these FOMO and time consuming dogshit 'systems' to D4.
They want players to be artificially invested in the game.

[Th3Scourge]

There has been zero information, other than the gameplay previews which just show a single person. There are two groups of people, one group who see D4 as a continuation of D1/2/3, and the other group who sees D4 as a continuation of DI. Depending on which group you fall in to, you believe D4 will either have a MMO-esque open world, or it won't.

Above was my original comment, apparently incorrect according to this article -> https://www.gamesradar.com/diablo-4-...e-shared-world

The part of the article you linked around the MMO aspects was a quote from Luis Barriga (no longer with Blizzard) in June 2020. https://www.gamesradar.com/diablo-4-...not-an-mmorpg/

In the most recent developers update they spoke about how they wanted to create a community. The exact quote was "It's so easy to create a community, it makes Diablo more of a social experience"

The extent to which D4 will be a fully shared world or what you can or can not opt into is very much up for speculation at this stage, but the taste of it I got in DI was extremely off-putting

At this stage I am very hesitant about the game

[Edge-]

But why? Is't improving a game more important than keeping old traditions?

Why is removing offline solo play an "improvement"? Isn't having more options for players better in general? Folks that want to play online will play online, folks that want a purely solo experience will get that purely solo experience and not be forced to play online in purely private sessions.

RPGs make sense as multiplayers, to be one of many heroes.

Some do, some don't. There's nothing about the narrative of Diablo that I've followed that lends itself to being geared primarily for groups/multiplayer. Quite the contrary, historically (I haven't kept up as much with current lore stuff) is was about you as an individual being the center of the story.

If you wanna be 'the one' then games like The Legend of Zelda make more sense.

Except that's a purely offline game and not a loot-farming ARPG. Again, Diablo was built on solo experiences and I'm not seeing any compelling arguments why removing that would improve the overall experience.

It make no sense a grand hero grinds skeletons and rifts and what not like a common peasant, but it does make sense an adventurer in an online game does.

Grinds them like a common peasant? What? That's literally the core gameplay loop dude, that's what everyone does, solo or multiplayer.

[Battlebeard]

Why is removing offline solo play an "improvement"? Isn't having more options for players better in general? Folks that want to play online will play online, folks that want a purely solo experience will get that purely solo experience and not be forced to play online in purely private sessions.



Some do, some don't. There's nothing about the narrative of Diablo that I've followed that lends itself to being geared primarily for groups/multiplayer. Quite the contrary, historically (I haven't kept up as much with current lore stuff) is was about you as an individual being the center of the story.



Except that's a purely offline game and not a loot-farming ARPG. Again, Diablo was built on solo experiences and I'm not seeing any compelling arguments why removing that would improve the overall experience.



Grinds them like a common peasant? What? That's literally the core gameplay loop dude, that's what everyone does, solo or multiplayer.

1. I believe a split playerbase is bad, it's better to make it only single player or only multiplayer, and personally, I see multiplayer games grow like crazy, regardless of genre, just look at twitch, not many single player games at the top, I believe multiplayer is the future.

2. Diablo, maybe not, but I would say most other RPGs I've played, hence I believe it's better to join them than try to keep Diablo traditions.

3. What's the point of loot farming single player? What use do you have of your gear if you cannot compete with others? You beat the campaign instantly, then what? If you don't have PvP or leaderboards or any competitive aspect, what's the point of gearing up and improving? Then you might as well play Zelda and skip the grind part. Grinding is BORING, it's a chore you do to improve your characters so you can compete against others. Take away the competition, and you only have boredom left, what's the point?

4. Yes it's the gameplay loop, but look at answer three, it make sense multiplayer, whoever grind the most win. If you are competing with only yourself, what incentive do you have to keep going? What use do you have of a bis geared character if you cannot use it for PvP or PvE competition?

[Strawberry]

You do realize Diablo Immortal is a reskinned asian mobile game produced by Netease right? It's not actually a Blizzard product they just use the branding to siphon all the green juice out of their "beloved" fanbase.

Relax, Diablo 4 will be fine most likely. (((It tils me so hard when people can't tell the difference and don't understand the implications of how DI differs to every other Blizzard game, it's so annoying I hate Blizzard so much they are like unhinged heroin dealers not minding selling to small infants that don't understand, it's so evil of them I can't believe how unregulated virtual capitalism is.)))

Let me say this again: Diablo Immortal isn't a real Blizzard game they just have no shame and won't mind using their "respectable image" promoting the product. No one on my friends list ever plays that game anymore I wonder why.

It's actually the other way around. Diablo game with Asian monetization slapped onto it.

[MoanaLisa]

You do realize Diablo Immortal is a reskinned asian mobile game produced by Netease right? It's not actually a Blizzard product they just use the branding to siphon all the green juice out of their "beloved" fanbase.

It is a Blizzard product. It has their name on it and they spent literally years working out the details on how the game would be set up and monetized in the West and Europe. Blizzard U.S. has touched every part of the game design in one way or another even if to approve it as is. It is, in every way, a Blizzard title, even if a significant portion of the work was done on a contract basis through NetEase.

- - - Updated - - -

The part of the article you linked around the MMO aspects was a quote from Luis Barriga (no longer with Blizzard) in June 2020. https://www.gamesradar.com/diablo-4-...not-an-mmorpg/

In the most recent developers update they spoke about how they wanted to create a community. The exact quote was "It's so easy to create a community, it makes Diablo more of a social experience"

The extent to which D4 will be a fully shared world or what you can or can not opt into is very much up for speculation at this stage, but the taste of it I got in DI was extremely off-putting

At this stage I am very hesitant about the game

It is Blizzard's primary design goal to make all of their games social and shared in as many ways as is feasible. I have no idea what they will do or how they will do it but all of their released work in the last 20 years is about bringing players together in shared spaces to a greater or lesser degree. I tend to think that D4 will follow that trend. Hope I'm wrong but right now the signs point toward shared world.

[Th3Scourge]

It is Blizzard's primary design goal to make all of their games social and shared in as many ways as is feasible. I have no idea what they will do or how they will do it but all of their released work in the last 20 years is about bringing players together in shared spaces to a greater or lesser degree. I tend to think that D4 will follow that trend. Hope I'm wrong but right now the signs point toward shared world.

Yeah it looks like it will and I really hope it doesn't. It's not my preference for ARPGs

[Edge-]

1. I believe a split playerbase is bad, it's better to make it only single player or only multiplayer, and personally, I see multiplayer games grow like crazy, regardless of genre, just look at twitch, not many single player games at the top, I believe multiplayer is the future.

Yet Diablo 2, the true juggernaut that really launched ARPG's and the Diablo franchise in the mainstream, had both single and multiplayer (and even two versions of multiplayer that didn't interact!).

And Twitch has plenty of titles with both single and multiplayer options in the top streamed games. Beyond that, Twitch is a terrible lone metric to use for literally anything. I do marketing-related work for a living and can tell you 100% that lone Twitch numbers are absolutely useless without more context and data points.

3. What's the point of loot farming single player?

You want to farm/earn the gear for your character.

What use do you have of your gear if you cannot compete with others?

You're not competing with others, you're accomplishing personal goals or gearing up to take on more difficult content.

You beat the campaign instantly, then what?

You grind? Literally the whole point of ARPG's?

I mean Grim Dawn is a primarily single player ARPG that's done fantastically well over the years and I've played it a LOT. Overwhelmingly solo, with some occasional co-op play. I still play it from time to time, either getting on my level 100 summoner to continue farming for the missing set pieces I need or to work on one of my alts I'm leveling/gearing up.

If you don't have PvP or leaderboards or any competitive aspect, what's the point of gearing up and improving?

Personal goals. A sense of pride and accomplishment (unironically). Because it's fun. Because not everyone needs to compare themselves to others to enjoy gaming.

Then you might as well play Zelda and skip the grind part.

I have no clue why you keep bringing up Zelda. Zelda isn't a loot farming ARPG like Diablo is. If I want to play an open world action adventure game, I'll play Zelda. If I want to farm loot, I'll play an ARPG.

Grinding is BORING, it's a chore you do to improve your characters so you can compete against others. Take away the competition, and you only have boredom left, what's the point?

...I think you're in the wrong genre dude. Grinding is literally the fucking core of the ARPG genre. From ye-olden D2 boss grinding with Baal/Meph/Diablo/Council/Nilathak (I think) boss runs to PoE map farming, literally the guts of much of the genre is purely on loot farming. Not every ARPG is focused purely on loot farming, many focus on their narratives, but a great man, like Diablo, are mostly about farming sick loot.

The competition hardly existed outside in the Diablo franchise outside of OG D2 ladders, which only reset periodically and were not what drove most folks to play that game for a decade+.

4. Yes it's the gameplay loop, but look at answer three, it make sense multiplayer, whoever grind the most win.

This is not remotely accurate. Yes, time invested plays a huge role. But the quality of that time matters. What build are you running? What's your gear? What are your farming strategies? Are you farming for yourself, or for profit?

Also, this isn't a problem with single player since there's no one to compete against and nothing really to "win" after beating the campaign, short of you finishing your personal goals.

If you are competing with only yourself, what incentive do you have to keep going?

Getting stronger. Finding that last set piece of unique you need to "finish" your character. Get better gear to push for harder content. (Not sure how applicable this one will be in D4 if they carry over the D3 loot system) Farming on your strong character for gear that an alt your working on needs and can't farm efficiently.

What use do you have of a bis geared character if you cannot use it for PvP or PvE competition?

Because you can smash bosses and have fun? Because it was your personal goal to make a "perfect" character with the ideal gear and, if possible, perfect rolls on them?

Honestly, I'm deeply perplexed as to why you think it's only possible to enjoy an ARPG if you're in constant competition with other players. That's literally never been a core of the genre, and often runs counter to how games in the genre have been made. There's far more cooperation than competition in ARPG's over the years. Far more.

[Battlebeard]

Yet Diablo 2, the true juggernaut that really launched ARPG's and the Diablo franchise in the mainstream, had both single and multiplayer (and even two versions of multiplayer that didn't interact!).

And Twitch has plenty of titles with both single and multiplayer options in the top streamed games. Beyond that, Twitch is a terrible lone metric to use for literally anything. I do marketing-related work for a living and can tell you 100% that lone Twitch numbers are absolutely useless without more context and data points.



You want to farm/earn the gear for your character.



You're not competing with others, you're accomplishing personal goals or gearing up to take on more difficult content.



You grind? Literally the whole point of ARPG's?

I mean Grim Dawn is a primarily single player ARPG that's done fantastically well over the years and I've played it a LOT. Overwhelmingly solo, with some occasional co-op play. I still play it from time to time, either getting on my level 100 summoner to continue farming for the missing set pieces I need or to work on one of my alts I'm leveling/gearing up.



Personal goals. A sense of pride and accomplishment (unironically). Because it's fun. Because not everyone needs to compare themselves to others to enjoy gaming.



I have no clue why you keep bringing up Zelda. Zelda isn't a loot farming ARPG like Diablo is. If I want to play an open world action adventure game, I'll play Zelda. If I want to farm loot, I'll play an ARPG.



...I think you're in the wrong genre dude. Grinding is literally the fucking core of the ARPG genre. From ye-olden D2 boss grinding with Baal/Meph/Diablo/Council/Nilathak (I think) boss runs to PoE map farming, literally the guts of much of the genre is purely on loot farming. Not every ARPG is focused purely on loot farming, many focus on their narratives, but a great man, like Diablo, are mostly about farming sick loot.

The competition hardly existed outside in the Diablo franchise outside of OG D2 ladders, which only reset periodically and were not what drove most folks to play that game for a decade+.



This is not remotely accurate. Yes, time invested plays a huge role. But the quality of that time matters. What build are you running? What's your gear? What are your farming strategies? Are you farming for yourself, or for profit?

Also, this isn't a problem with single player since there's no one to compete against and nothing really to "win" after beating the campaign, short of you finishing your personal goals.



Getting stronger. Finding that last set piece of unique you need to "finish" your character. Get better gear to push for harder content. (Not sure how applicable this one will be in D4 if they carry over the D3 loot system) Farming on your strong character for gear that an alt your working on needs and can't farm efficiently.



Because you can smash bosses and have fun? Because it was your personal goal to make a "perfect" character with the ideal gear and, if possible, perfect rolls on them?

Honestly, I'm deeply perplexed as to why you think it's only possible to enjoy an ARPG if you're in constant competition with other players. That's literally never been a core of the genre, and often runs counter to how games in the genre have been made. There's far more cooperation than competition in ARPG's over the years. Far more.

I guess I will just never understand the way some people play. I want to understand but I can't see ANY reason to ever play a single player ARPG. Grinding sucks, and if you can't beat others, then you grind for nothing, that's how I view it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Molvonos]

If you have both, you split the community. More people is always a good thing.

There's one problem with this statement:

You're not splitting the community if one 'half' is solely interested in solo or small group of friends content, as they'll never be a part of the community anyways (which was the case for every Diablo game up until 4). You can't claim those people as part of your community and if they don't like that feeling in the game, they'll never play it and never be part of your community. They're stay in D2/3 rather than deal with what they feel slights them.

That beings said, i'm not defending either side, because ultimately it doesn't matter to me -- i'm going to play the game with friends and by myself regardless of whatever 'immersion breaking' (which, by the way, people bitching about respawning mobs breaking immersion? you farm the *SAME* bosses over and over and over again, the fuck're you high on?).

[Battlebeard]

There's one problem with this statement:

You're not splitting the community if one 'half' is solely interested in solo or small group of friends content, as they'll never be a part of the community anyways (which was the case for every Diablo game up until 4). You can't claim those people as part of your community and if they don't like that feeling in the game, they'll never play it and never be part of your community. They're stay in D2/3 rather than deal with what they feel slights them.

That beings said, i'm not defending either side, because ultimately it doesn't matter to me -- i'm going to play the game with friends and by myself regardless of whatever 'immersion breaking' (which, by the way, people bitching about respawning mobs breaking immersion? you farm the *SAME* bosses over and over and over again, the fuck're you high on?).

Some sure, but tell me, honestly, which do you think would have more players:

1. Diablo 4, only multiplayer
2. Diablo 4, multiplayer mode (but there is also a single player mode)

Even if less people are interested in D4 if there is no single player, option one will still have more players, cause many people would rather play multiplayer only Diablo 4 than no Diablo 4.

[Edge-]

Grinding sucks

Honestly, how an ARPG fan can dislike grinding but like the genre is similarly perplexing to me. Because grinding is literally the whole point of the genre.