What is there for casuals?

[HansOlo]

Very rarely, as casual gamers could not compete with other players for raid slots, especially from that horrible "premade group finder", as they rarely have the same experience or ilevel. So it would be very unlikely they find groups. In the end, WoW nowadays is all about competition. And if there are 10 potential semi hardcore raiders, PuGs would chose them over casual gamers.



Well, if you play regularily, you would not fit into my definition. Also, having a mythic+ guild rather would make you semi hardcore, as you are part of an organized group and even play on schedules.

Ridiculous statements. You are presenting problems, that can't be solved. When you reach this point - you should realize that this game is not for you.

[Kyphael]

How the hell can you think that pet battles are casual content??? Do you even know big of a time commitment they are?

No you can't do pet battles casually and be competitive. You can't do anything in WoW casually and be competitive. It's why all the casuals quit and started playing FFXIV where you can do queued content casually and get the second best gear in the game through the tomestone system, much like you could in WoW in the past with the badge system, before Ion took over and decided that he didn't want casuals in his game.

When I got burned out of raiding back in Mists, all I did on WoW was pet battles. Didn't take much of my time. I did the Celestial Tournament too. Took a few hours a week. I don't recall being logged on every day, and when I was it was a couple hours most. It really doesn't take that much time.

[HansOlo]

Do you mean classic or vanilla? In classic, people were experienced enough to do molton core, and molton core is an extremely easy raid. In vanilla, players simply leveled up chars and played dungeons or battlegrounds. Leveling another char has been gotten old in 18 years of WoW, and dungeon gameplay became less interesting as open world content simply overgeared matchmade dungeon rewards. All that is left for casual gamers nowadays is leveling up to the new endgame content, do some matchmade dungeons, some world quests, some random battlegrounds, and leave, simply because of the reason there is no ongoing character progression. Add to that that catching up alts is way too time consuming and you had to replay almost linear all content you already play with your main. No matter if that changes in Dragonflight, leveling alts is rarely an option nowadays in an as old game as WoW. People want endgame, and if i talk about people, i do not only mean raiders and mythic+ players, but all different gamestyles.

I ignore your pathetic "U NEED TO INVEST MOAR" comment because that is exactly what players want - invest effort into the progression path they would like to chose.

HOW do you solve this problem?

HOW do you solve it - obviously one of the biggest game devs in the world, don't have the resources to solve this. So I ask you:

1)They know who you are and they know everything about the casual group - yet they obviously don't want to invest in you. Why?
2)How do you make a competetive game, less competetive and make it equally good for everyone?

Satisfy these questions and I PM you a job.

[Mojo03]

Honestly, if you're a not a sweaty min/maxer, WoW isn't a game you should spend your time on.

If you're a sweaty min/maxer, you're also wasting your time, because 95% of your work gets reset every patch.

Stupid game.

Stop tolerating it people.

Game makes a billion dollars a year by the way. They make $500,000,000+ dollars between raid tiers.

To put that in perspective, it cost Marvel around $400 million to make Avengers 3 & 4. GTA 5 cost $265 million. The entire game and years of development.

You get 1 raid and a new quest hub for paying substantially MORE.

They're laughing their way to the bank, doing the bare minimum, while you're chasing endlessly changing numbers and re-branded features.

[Dakara]

Casual is a weird term.

If we are talking about people who prefer non-instanced content, the answer is obvious. Crafting will be your focus in Dragonflight. I would like to assume that it will go well beyond gathering but also include grinding mobs and completing any number of world events.

If we are talking casuals as in people who play few hours and prefer non-organized play, M+ is still there and will now feel reasonably different every season with the dungeon rotation.

Agreed. Casuals is very non-descript.

I run keys with friends/guildies, I don’t pug M+ at any key level, other than maybe adding 1 or 2 pugs to our group if required. It’s just not worth my time if a group falls apart mid run. So if I log into WOW at an off-peak time, and don’t have anyone to run keys with, I get bored and log out… this usually leads to me unsubscribing more than I used to in past expansions.

Flying around ZM on Alts is not fun.
Running Torghast is pointless.
Random BG’s feel completely pointless and are often a shit show.

It would be nice to have some casual, solo or solo queue content worth doing when I feel like playing WOW but don’t have anyone online to run keys with.
I had hoped Torghast was going to be an improved version of Horrific visions but sadly they didn’t add any rewards.
LFD was fun in past expansions but has basically become irrelevant in the M+ era.
LFR once a week on Alts is better than nothing I suppose.

[HansOlo]

1.) I doubt they know who i am. And i guess they "do not invest in me" because they do not know how.
2.) I would not take away competetive gameplay for those who want competition. I would simply add multiple different progression pathes and if needed even horizontal progression.



Why do you think i would want to work for you?

You not going to work for me. I would recommend you, if you had the interest. If only you could make any sense in a professional setting. You act like a professinal dev - so I wanted test you(not that I am any better).

It's also easy for me to complain about things - without actually defining a clear cut direction.

1)They simple don't invest, because you are not worth the money they would put in(you as in a casual group). The group is too flakey and complicated - they just don't believe in you.

And they know you, because they have data on your gameplay interests.

2)They can't even figure out current progression difficulity. They messed it up with the current tier(Ion admitted that). What do you even expect? We go again back to 1.

[enigma77]

1.) I doubt they know who i am. And i guess they "do not invest in me" because they do not know how. They have tried. Often. They failed. Always.
2.) I would not take away competetive gameplay for those who want competition. I would simply add multiple different progression pathes and if needed even horizontal gearing progression as like pvp->pve with stats and gear-bonuses for gamestyle dependend uses.



Why do you think i would want to work for you?

My man, you are wasting your time. Blizzard designs the game the way they think pleases most people. You identify as a casual (very vague term), but really what you want is a completely different approach to game design. Which Blizzard, as you can see, is unwilling to provide, because they think (probably correctly) that players like you are a tiny minority that won't make them much money.

Your definition of casual is simply oddly specific and frankly strange. I know many people who think of themselves as casuals and they do Mythic + and Heroic Raids all the time.

[enigma77]

You are funny Thanks for the discussion, tho. I love to talk to kids.

- - - Updated - - -



Sure it is, as the current game design failed.



Do not invoke minorities if you do not know anything about it.

You're just talking out of your ass, but you have no data or evidence to support your claims.

I'm going to trust Blizzard to do what's in their best financial interest over some random dude on this forum. Because if anything they've proven time and time again they're greedy dicks.

I suggest you play a different game that suits you. World of Warcraft is not for you.

[HansOlo]

You are funny Thanks for the discussion, tho. I love to talk to kids.

- - - Updated - - -



Sure it is, as the current game design failed.



Do not invoke minorities if you do not know anything about it.

No - im not funny. Im concerned that you are wasting up peoples time with this nonsense.

With the slightest challenge, the whole argument you build up falls. You need to come back stronger.

[Lplatehealer]

Something I was wondering recently. Assuming theres no new big features to be announced.... what is there for casual players in Dragonflight? It, as of now, just looks like another WoD-esque: We only care about what hardcore players do. But at least WoD had the Garrison which, while kinda shit, was at least something that all players could take part in.

LOLLOLOLOLOL.

All of retail wow is for casuals. You literally can log in and get loot. Stop bitching about hardcore when wow stopped putting effort into getting gear over ten years ago. The whole game is catered to you. STFU

[Echocho]

Valid point. How do you solve a problem, where the premise is to be competitive - but this group of casuals doesn't want to be competitive ?

By copying FFXIVs tomestone system, which they copied from WoWs badge system. For some reason Ion didn't want casuals in his game when he took over so he scrapped it and everything like it and locked all the decent gear behind premade group content.
They just need to bring it back and a lot if casuals who left for FFXIV will he back, most people just want meaningful gear progression.

[Otaka]

Because they know casuals will play housing for 1-2 months then complain about X thing and quit.
The sort of casuals you are referring typically keep asking for stuff cus they have this weird fantasy in their head and they believe what they want = this needs to be in the game, idk how can they be grown functioning people and think that way lol

Final Fantasy 14 has had housing for years and people still play them... so youre assuming things and obviously completely wrong.

Besides once you develop a good system it takes less resources to update it in the future... like adding new content: new furniture, new houses and other smaller things.
But blizzard's management doesnt know what they are doing... they keep making new systems every expansion and discard the old ones, instead of making a good system and merely update it with new stuff for the next expansion and then have more developer time for actual new ideas.

Even Swtor had player housing and they kept adding new furniture on a regular basis... because its very easy to update existing system. Takes like one developer to keep modeling new stuff every patch.
Theres a reason why games like minecraft are still popular despite some content within the game being almost a decade old.

[VMSmith]

By copying FFXIVs tomestone system, which they copied from WoWs badge system. For some reason Ion didn't want casuals in his game when he took over so he scrapped it and everything like it and locked all the decent gear behind premade group content.
They just need to bring it back and a lot if casuals who left for FFXIV will he back, most people just want meaningful gear progression.

While I do agree that reward systems, even temporary ones like gear, can be a sufficient motivator to keep people coming back to your product, I think what most people really want is something that's just fun to do.

And, currently, the only content that Blizzard has been competent at making fun is instance grinding. Even the good solo content they've made in the last few expansions like Mage Tower, Horrific Visions, and maybe even Torghast, has all been instance grinding.

Legion was the last time there was anything just fun to do in the game outside of instances, I'm thinking of the fishing content. I had a blast with all that and it didn't reward gear at all.

Right now I'm re-rolling on a more populated server and leveling through Pandaria and I'm just having the best time progressing my garden and helping out villagers in need (i.e. the dreaded daily quests). The fact that each zone has a cohesive narrative that progresses through the entire zone from start to finish is wonderful. It's not just unconnected stories from hub to hub, they all add up to something interesting. Especially in Valley of the Four Winds where it all culminates in the Savior of Stoneplow story where everything you've done up to that point comes back to affect the finale. And at max level there were even more stories that you accessed by increasing your rep via the daily system. It all goes somewhere and rewards you with an experience, not just gear.

Even WoD at least had the garrison, as half-developed as it was, to be an enjoyable activity. With some more time in the oven, the garrison could have been amazing, it's failure was that Blizzard was too timid and too rushed with it.

My favorite memories in WoW all revolve around experiences provided by the game, even when it comes to instance grinding such as that first time your group defeats a difficult boss. The gear itself has been mostly irrelevant since Vanilla other than as a "You must be this tall" indicator for the game to know what content you might be mathematically ready for.

[Shaqthefat]

LOLLOLOLOLOL.

All of retail wow is for casuals. You literally can log in and get loot. Stop bitching about hardcore when wow stopped putting effort into getting gear over ten years ago. The whole game is catered to you. STFU

These are statements you make when you don't actually play the game

[ceall]

I do not need evidence if i talk about how i would like the game to be. It is simply about my preferences. And i argument them.



Well, actually one of blizzards mission statements is to "address as many players as possible". Seems they do not adress them for long as they lost 60% of their customers within the first two month after Shadowlands launch.

Cool, a clickbaity youtuber that has as little of a clue about the game's subscriber count as we all have.
Until we're provided with 1st party information BY THE COMPANY, noone can or should trust any 3rd party providing so called "information" of subscriber numbers.

Can you provide 1st party evidence of your claim? Any sub numbers or similar provided by blizz themselves? If not, I'd really like to ask you not to spread false information.

[Echocho]

Cool, a clickbaity youtuber that has as little of a clue about the game's subscriber count as we all have.
Until we're provided with 1st party information BY THE COMPANY, noone can or should trust any 3rd party providing so called "information" of subscriber numbers.

Can you provide 1st party evidence of your claim? Any sub numbers or similar provided by blizz themselves? If not, I'd really like to ask you not to spread false information.

Calm down man, you're acting like someone disrespected your wife or something

[Glorious Leader]

DF sucks for everybody

[Unholyground]

People will do the same thing they always do, complain....lmao.

[VinceVega]

These are statements you make when you don't actually play the game

Is this true though? There are pugs for everything... you get showered in loot. You can get your char heroric raid rdy so fast. It is just that you have to play the game instead of spamming the easiest dungeon available again and again and again and again and again.

Maybe not everyone can get mythic level loot in every spot... so what? Why is it this important to people to take gameplay and gear away from the top end.

If you get that... then what? It is not like you suddenly do more in the game just because you are BiS.

Loot progression is there. People just don't actually want to do work for it. And by that i mean play the game.

Badges have always been a boring sytem imho. You run the same dungeon over and over again and you can acutally calculate when you get the piece of gear. At that point they can just send it to you via mail after x-weeks.

[Unholyground]

DF sucks for everybody

Nah it actually looks pretty fun all things considered with the last 2 shit expansions. Dragon riding is a nice fundemental change to the core game and having played Guild Wars 2 recently it changes how you approach everything in the open world and is a welcome change.